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Offense: Status quo from last year a problem?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by SavioKid, May 6, 2008.

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  1. SavioKid

    SavioKid Rookie

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    Lots of talk about the Defensive side of the ball and rightfully so since our Offense was the 'record breaker / AFL' type throughout the regular season. But, with no major changes to challenge our starters, especially the OL which has weaknesses as obviously seen in the SB, is this a good thing for this year?

    I'm particularly concerned about the OL such as a Matt Light who is an 'average' LT when you compare him against the upper echelon. Others are: an injury prone Neal who still has (not much though) some fundamental technique issues; and the rotation for our RT spot (neither one has claimed it really).

    Funny, I do like them addressing our backup QB situation though since ...I won't say ANYTHING about the 'man' so I'll stop there...

    Anyways thoughts?
  2. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    It will be a problem if McDaniels continues his inability to make adjustments or self scout his own offense.
  3. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

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    You really think that Light and Neal would be better players just because rookie X is there to challenge?

    They are veterans and will perform to peak abilities most days.

    The offense will benifit from guys who were hurt in the past coming back like Thomas and Jackson.

    The offense line is one of the best in the league and continuity is one of the reasons for this. And we will in all likelyhood have the same four guys start at LT, LG, C, and RG as we have since Mankins was drafted. Kazcur and O'callahan are both adequate RTs. I am tired of everyone thinking we have the worst oline because they had a very bad game on the biggest stage.

    We have some of the best pulling guards in the league and with the amount we screen I wouldn't want any other guards outside of Hutch. Koppen is one of the best centers in the league. Light IMO is one of the best LT in the league...look around the league the dominant left tackle isnt as prominant as it once was even the way it was 2 seasons ago and Light is a very talented LT who deserves the Pro Bowl bids he has recieved.

    one bad game does not make a man or an oline.
  4. richpats

    richpats Banned

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    It will be a problem if it's status quo. We need to commit to the run.
  5. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's always the Coordinator isn't it. Belichick wasn't shy about bringing Capers in on defense, he wouldn't have been shy about doing the same for the offense if he thought McDaniels needed it.

    On the thread, I'm not worried at all about the offense except we need to get Moss back involved. In the playoffs he disappeared. Not sure if he was a big banged up but we need to throw the ball to him even when he's covered sometimes. There's little to worry about with the offense for me, though, as long as we pick up the blitzes well.
  6. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think we'll run more with Morris and Maroney healthy together. Last year we lost Morris just as Maroney was coming back.
  7. miDeuce

    miDeuce Rookie

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    I don't really think the offense will be status quo. David Thomas should be back, the fourth receiver will be different - hopefully Chad Jackson will bring a new wrinkle, and having both Maroney and Sammy Morris for a full season should add a lot. I like our O-Line, they always have one or two games a year where they're not at their best, unfortunately last year it was in the Super Bowl. But for 90% of the time they are solid and that's about as good as you can do in the NFL.

    Okay, so it's not a lot different but it's not the exact same and I think that's a good thing. Really looking forward to seeing Sammy Morris back.
  8. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

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    Pats O has to be improved and different in 08 season if pats wants to have some blown out games.

    if O is exactly the same, 14 pt game is all we can see.
  9. RodThePat

    RodThePat Rookie

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    :rolleyes:
  10. tobias funke

    tobias funke Rookie

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    I see what you're saying, but it's not like every team can just be like OH PRESSURE THE QUARTERBACK WITH INCREDIBLE DEPTH ON THE LINE OF HALL OF FAME CALIBER PLAYERS.

    If any team has a chance to do it consistently to us this season, it will be the Bills, IMO.

    But to think our offense as it stands is so crappy that it would look like KC's for an entire season solely doing what it did last year, is ridiculous. Every team saw tape of the Patriots all season and couldn't beat them... why would that change because the Pats haven't played for a few months?
  11. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    Dave Thomas and C. Jackson will have more prominent roles. Morris will be back. Maroney will be much better after a healthy offseason getting bigger and stronger. Maroney will be utilized much more in the passing game. Brady will have another off season to develop with his receivers. This offense will resemble the 2006 Colt offense, more than the 2005 Colt offense. Some more balance, patience, not allowing Brady to take as much of a pounding as he did running the Philly/Baltimore/Pitt/NYG/SD/NYG gauntlet toward the end of 2007.
  12. SavioKid

    SavioKid Rookie

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    O.k....

    One, I never said you can only upgrade with rookies. I was even thinking of veteran free agents that could actually challenge for a starting spot. I never said that the OL is bad but a potential weak area since you can not come away from the SB and not think otherwise in the most important game of the season.

    I think Mankins is a potential Hall of Fame Guard and Koppen is an All-pro no doubt, but to say Light is the best LT is debatable but I did put him in the upper echelon of LTs if you read it closely. I just said he was average when compared to the upper echelon like a McNeill from SD or a previous years Ogden of BAL. I agree that the LT is not what it used to be and Light has done very well against most of the elite pass rushers. I just questioned it because LT is the 'on an island' / roughest pass blocking position (QB blindspot) there is and weather it should be looked at. So, I'll agree with more emphasis that the Light is a solid LT that shouldn't need an upgrade yet.

    However, to say Neal and Kazur (or O'Callaghan) are solid in the respect that those positions shouldn't be looked at or possibly upgraded is to be blinding homers. Look at Neal's injury history and technique issues (not as much at all like the past but he was a former wrestler instead of football). And no one (coaches or us) has really endorsed either RT as the man to stay there for the next 5 years+....

    Continuity does go a long way no doubt for an OL, but to ignore these weaknesses might not be the corect thing for this year. However these issues (LG and RT) might be too small to have any negative affect in the short run since Sarnecchia is a great coach who will always improve every player.
  13. SavioKid

    SavioKid Rookie

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    Good point about Morris and the running game taking a load of the passing game and hence, Brady not taking a pounding as much as last year....Hopefully! I almost forgot how Morris was out most of the year and will be a nice 'addition' to the Offense.

    What's your thoughts on the OL?
  14. SavioKid

    SavioKid Rookie

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    All sarcasm aside, I & 99% of the knowledgeable fans here definitely don't think the Offense is crappy and will repeat close to what happened last year (or even improve in some areas with more continuity and health). But, the NYG were NOT a bunch of hall of famers (if that is what you were saying) on the DL and the SB did show how possibly out OL can be beat IF we stay with that same Offensive plan.

    So, I just think, and others pointed out here too ( in a way) that mainly we just need to improve our Offensive play calling / blocking schemes / etc. (i.e. McDaniels should definitely be questioned) to remain a high-powered scoring machine. I hope everyone is right about our OL not needing improvements though at LG / RT in the short run.

    Also, a big improvement might be getting a Morris for a full year with the running game and keep Defenses off-balance (& keep Maroney fresher).
  15. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Like the defensive side of the ball, I see us getting better. Most great offenses had years together in their prime, Brady and Moss are going into just their second season together.

    Most notably, when the offensive scheme was put into motion last season starting in training camp, nobody - including BB, McD and Brady - had any idea just to what level Moss & Welker would be playing. Now they can revise the scheme to fit those two and spend an offseason working on that.

    So the idea that this offense has been "figured out" by the Giants and other teams can implement that game plan - that's ridiculous.

    Furthermore, Stallworth was a huge disappointment to me, and I think Chad Jackson will fill the role of #3 receiver much better, if he stays healthy and lives up to any of his potential. If not, than Gaffney is a suitable 3.

    Also, we saw what a healthy Sammy Morris did for this team - it allowed the team to have much better balance in the offense, and hopefully that will carry on through next season, particularly with Maroney bringing his game to another level at the end of this past season.
  16. tobias funke

    tobias funke Rookie

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    I just think it stands to reason that, with the minds available at Gillette, they are obviously planning on improvements. Why on earth wouldn't they? It's their job.

    The fact that they didn't go after any linemen in the draft and stuck with possibly developing a couple UDFAs says enough to me that they are plenty satisfied with the personnel.
  17. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    Here are my feelings on the O-line: I believe Brady got a concussion on his very first snap of the SB. I think he had cobwebs for most of the game, and gutted it out, pulling himself together a bit in the 2nd half. I don't think he was processing info like he normally does. I think the performance of the whole offense and the O-line, reflected the fact that TB's brains were scrambled. Not being in the huddle or at the LOS, we have no idea how well he and his mates were communicating.

    Obviously the team could never admit that, because then they would have to answer to the "mothers of America" why they put a concussed Qb back in the game.

    The SB game reminded me alot of the loss to KC in '05 when JAllen crushed TB on his first pass attempt.

    I think the O-line's struggles were an aberration. Kill the head and the body dies, as they say. The Giants basically won the SB on the Pats first offensive snap. If you want to blame MCDaniels for a playground call, and not playing it safe early to get a feel for the Giant pass rush, there's some merit in that.

    But if teams think they are going to copy the "Giant blue print" to beat the Pats in '08, they are going to be very surprised. They had better take a hammer to Brady's helmet, because otherwise they will get wrecked.

    I think the '08 team will be worse than the '07 squad early, but BETTER late in the year, as young players grow into the system, both on O and D. Opponents can't scheme against young players they have hardly seen before.

    If I could target one thing that the Pats O has failed to do, that they should have done these past several years, it would be to incorporate Maroney more into the passing game against top tier opponents.
    Last edited: May 6, 2008
  18. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Pete Sheppard of WEEI said that he heard from a reliable source within the Pats organization that Brady hurt his rib on the first play of the game. This would also explain Brady's early absence from the offseason program - he's recovering from not one, but two injuries.

    I personally think Brady's decision making was fine throughout the game, and that only a few of his throws were off, either b/c of injury or the rush. If any one of the half dozen freakish things that happened on the final Giants drive didn't happen, Brady would've been a main reason the Pats had won.
    Last edited: May 6, 2008
  19. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Rookie

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    Lets just summarize here:

    That is a partial list of the accomplishment of our offense last year. An offense many were calling the greatest offense of all time, and that undoubtedly was one of the top 10 ever. An offense that was unquestionably the most powerful offense in the NFL last year.

    I am more than okay with status quo.

    Guys get a grip. We lost ONE. Count them ONE. Game all season long. And to the extent last years team was the greatest of time it was on the defensive side of the ball not the offense.

    Status quo is fine. I would love for us to win 18 games this season. As long as the one loss is during the regular season.
  20. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    So are the offense threads the "it" threads of the week? Last week it was defense, the week before it was the draft.
  21. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    Can you give an example of where you think his technique is faulty?

    Also, not sure what you mean about the OLine. Are you saying the regular season was a fluke and the "real" Oline showed up in the Superbowl? That we can expect so see them play like they did in the superbowl every game next year? I would have thought that the way they played in 18 games is at least as significant as they way then played in one. Except for one play that had nothing to do with the OLine, this wouldn't be an issue.

    Anyway, my understanding of the superbowl is that Coughlin did a few things the Pats hadn't seen before, and the Giants DLine isn't too shabby.

    Making wholesale roster changes based on one game, rather than addressing those concerns with coaching, seems to me to be a little over the top.
  22. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

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    So people who disagree with you are blind homers? That makes you a blind hater.

    Homers and haters. Yep, let's divide them up. No sense if making a point. Just diss the other guy in a weak attempt to make his point invalid.
  23. Dago

    Dago Rookie

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    the pats had the chance to do something in the FA and in the draft for the ol..
    they preferred trade a third round pick and draft a no very need with other instead to draft a ol...
    ergo they are happy of the offense...:rocker:
  24. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

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    We need to adapt ,change, and improve as we move on. Sure, not every NFL team has the ability to stop us but we can't put ourself in a position where an unknown team screws up our perfect season as we saw in the last SB game.

    I honestly don't want to see Pats to win a game by 3 points because we are screwed if another team scores another TD at the last moment.

    In our last game with Charger or Jag, we managed to control the clock for 9 minutes. In the SB, we hurrily scored the last TD and gave Giants the last 4 minutes to do whatever they wanted while we were ahead by 4 points.

    It was obvious to everybody that TB would go to Moss at the last minute because we saw it in every game except playoff games. When another team choked Moss, our O was not explosive any more.

    As I said last year, I was tired of watching Brady and Moss show in every game. Even though another team knows that Brady will throw the ball to 3 'known' WRs, it's hard for them to know which one. Even if they know, they don't have the resource to stop the all 3.

    our O in 08 season needs to be UNPREDICTABLE and it's very important for Brady to have a second or third WR besides Moss.
    Last edited: May 6, 2008
  25. richpats

    richpats Banned

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    I know it was just one game, but I don't think of "powerful" when I think of the 2007 Patriot offense.
  26. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This offense scored more points than any team in the history of the NFL. The offense helped this team to the first 16-0 regular season in the history of the NFL. THE offense helped get this team to within 3 minutes of becoming the first team in NFL history to go 19-0 in a season. Those people who think McDaniels "should definitely be questioned", rather than recognizing that the offense had a bad game at the wrong time should be forced to turn in their "football fan" cards and should be banned from ever commenting on sports again.

    And that's coming from someone who's been saying the offense is mostly to blame for the Super Bowl loss.
  27. PatsfanGlo

    PatsfanGlo Rookie

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    After record setting year on offense, I think it would be foolish to make any dramatic changes. With that said, like many of posters stated, Morris and Dave Thomas coming back should help out. I'm actually counting on Dave Thomas to be bigger part of offense than Chad Jackson. I thought he was very reliable and made some tough catches when he was healthy. Like Chad Jackson, he had some health issues but I think it is a good bet he'll be bigger part of the offense if Watson gets his annual butter fingers.

    Only big concern I have is I'm curious as to see how Pats will adjust to the 'blue print'. NFL being copycat league, its a guarantee that every team we face will pretty much go all out and try to do what Giants and Eagles did. Other than that, Pats really don't have much to worry about on offense.
  28. JoePats

    JoePats Rookie

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    Not to get all simple-minded, but how would the status-quo from an offense that broke several major records and is one of the great offenses of all-time be a problem?
  29. patriotspride

    patriotspride Banned

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    I'm so sick of hearing about the o line being a weakness on the pats. its stupid. they had one bad game against a excellent d line. they went 18 and 0 and for the most part gave Brady enough time to go to dinner with Giselle on every snap. the offense doesnt need a thing.
  30. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    When I consider what the "status quo" means I think of this:

    1. Moss will be the one and only deep threat and will most often see a doubleteam

    2. This will leave Welker or Gaffney open short both of whom will catch a lot of passes - and most Ds will hapilly accept that in a "bend but don't break" situation

    3.That's in part because they know Brady may try to force passes to Moss even when he's doubleteamed - taking a chance of big yardage but running the risk of having to punt or settle for less than a TD

    Brady also threw to Moss an exceptionally high number of times, and Moss was nearly always on the field.

    It's not that the team can't win with such an approach - but generally I think I just described what we saw in most games. And we did see teams with speed rushers have success in putting pressure on Brady too.

    So a wholehearted NO - I hope we don't see the status quo. People will tell you that the #1 rated offense needs no changes, but these are the same people who were telling you that the #6 rated offense, with only Reche Caldwell and Gaffney, needed no changes either.

    Hopefully McDaniels will have a player and be willing to make someone else a deep threat - thereby breaking the cycle by drawing doubleteams away from Moss. That'd be a good start.
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