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Of Tree Rings and Trillions

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by patsfan13, Dec 2, 2009.

  1. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So as the Copenhagen/Hopenhagen meeting are happening within a week I though this article about tree ring data was especially timely. The goal is for a Global tax to 'reduce' CO2. It will involve a massive transfer of wealth. This BTW in top of the 650 in taxes from Waxman/Markey.

    This is based on the famous IPCC reports which scream of an impending calamity. The report had a lynchpin the Hockey stick graph which helped Algore his Nobel prize.


    The article below is Oct 2, 2009 about 6 weeks before the Climategate whistleblower released the emails detailing the abuse of the scientific method and fraud engaged in by the AGW cabal at CRU and in the US.


    The author Ross McKitrick had been working on the hockey stick issue for a number of years. He give a good history of that. In particular he talks of the data and the issues with the data and how it was cherry picked to give the desired(?) results.

    The actually got ahold of some of the tree ring data when Briffa published one of his articles in a journal that required that he make data avaiable.

    Flawed climate data



    Jones head of the CRU has been asked to step down while an investigation inthe methods and destruction of data at CRU is reviewed. Some feel the CRU is trying to get ahead of the situation to protect Jones from an independent investigation. We shall see.
     
  2. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Now that it's been established that the skeptics have been reduced to hacking emails and distorting the contents of those emails, I think they have harmed themselves.

    As far as this most recent nonsense by the skeptics, the following link provides a rather detailed look at the hockey stick and how it holds up under a variety of scenarios. Of course, the skeptics, who are looking more pathetic than ever, are becoming a laughing stock in the global warming circles:

    RealClimate: Hey Ya! (mal)

    So along comes Steve McIntyre, self-styled slayer of hockey sticks, who declares without any evidence whatsoever that Briffa didn’t just reprocess the data from the Russians, but instead supposedly picked through it to give him the signal he wanted. These allegations have been made without any evidence whatsoever.

    McIntyre has based his ‘critique’ on a test conducted by randomly adding in one set of data from another location in Yamal that he found on the internet. People have written theses about how to construct tree ring chronologies in order to avoid end-member effects and preserve as much of the climate signal as possible. Curiously no-one has ever suggested simply grabbing one set of data, deleting the trees you have a political objection to and replacing them with another set that you found lying around on the web.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2009
  3. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What skeptic hacked emails links and proof please. This is a smear. It is far more likely this is a leak by an insider. AFAIK no one has been established as the person(s) who released the emails and more importantly the computer files and data.

    The emails when combined with the actions of the IPCC and the climate journals plaint a picture. The spin from the AGW religionist is pathetic in this case.




    Thanks for the link. This post in RC you cite is of course a response to the article I link from McKitrick from the Financial Post.

    This post is from 6 weeks before the fraud at RC and their comrades are the CRU was exposed. THe information in the computer files (esp the HArry files) show that McKitrick was correct n his assessment and that the RC/ECU cabal lied, and were committing scientific fraud because the cooked the data.

    You are digging a deeper hole for your position Patters. They based their warming on results from 3! TREES. The determined the planet was warming because of 3 TREES while ignoring other trees in the same area that negated their predetermined conclusion.

    We are supposed to throw away our way of life because of 3 TREES!!!!!!!!!


    BTW McKitrick address why Briffa approach isn't scientifically valid and why the McIntyre approach is more valid.

    the cheats at RC ignore this.
     
  4. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Some more climate gate articles. 3 on the hearings in US House of Rep/ and 1 from Canada. I will post the links without excerpts. The upshot of these articles is. The gov reps acknowledge that there are problems that are exposed by the emails and data from CRU but claim that even though the data was cooked and peer review was used to exclude research that didn't support AGW, it doesn't matter, SAY WHAT???????????

    They want the power and the $$$$$$$$$$$. Doesn't matter what the science is.

    Stolen Climate E-Mails Cause A Ruckus In Congress : NPR

    Obama Science Adviser Urges Climate Action Amid Uproar - WSJ.com

    Holdren, Lubchenco On Defensive About ClimateGate at Hearing : ScienceInsider

    E-mail controversy doesn?t change climate science: Prentice

    These articles are about the meaning of the climategate affair


    Lorne Gunter: Why the climate email scandal matters. Big time. - Full Comment


    Daniel Henninger: Climategate: Science Is Dying - WSJ.com


    The crisis is picking up steam despite the AGW religionist inhabiting their state of denial.
     
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think it's fairly obvious that skeptics hacked the emails, but I agree it would be useful to have proof. I hope there's a full investigation.

    If it's correct that the 34 data points were simply picked up off the internet and plotted, then it does not sound like much of a scientific method. I believe I posted an article that talked in general about the problems that trees create because their behavior with regard to temperature changes is not all that simple. Once again, it comes down to which models are being used. From the link I provided, it sounds like McIntyre's approach was not scientifically sound and the evidence of the hockey stick appears overwhelming, unless you very selectively cherry pick data. But, numerous data sets seem to support the hockey stick.

    As far as your links, so far the right wing media is trying to turn the ambiguous hacked emails into a scandal, but I don't think they're really getting very far. Fox News, the Washington Times, and the WSJ can do their best to fight for the oil companies and Saudi Arabia, but most of the MSM is keeping the story in perspective. As far as the right wing in Congress go, they're irrelevant right now especially on this scandal.
     
  6. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Oh good this is the 7th topic on MMGW on the front page of this, most by a moderator... guess if you post it often enough it will become believable... doubt it... please do your jobs and merge.

    On the main board they usually merget these threads into one... that is the model that this board should be following... it is all the same topic, just framed differently.

    David Hone - Climate Change Advisor for Shell Blog Archive Just what is in a “political agreement”?

     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2009
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Cat Is Out Of The Bag
    They can twist and spin all they want this isn't going away, tell your kids to buy that SUV if they want and tell them they won't be killing a Polar Bear if they have a smokey campfire on the beach.

    All the pasty faced liberal granola eaters can start using Deodorant again too.

    HAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN
     
  8. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    PF13 as usual ignoring the forest for the trees. (BTW, hockey stick was ultimately vindicated.) This is what happens when science education fails to educate.

    What do the hacked CRU emails tell us?
     

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