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Oct 21st 2006

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Holy Diver, Oct 18, 2006.

  1. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    First time posting on the 'political board' .... but I've been around here since the website was in the old format...anyway....What is happening right now is frightening me. And I'd like to hear some thoughts. I know you are all opinionated, and I think this is the time for dialog before things get really bad on our planet.

    The USS Eisenhower strike force moves into the gulf near Iran next week. While Iran and Syria are both preparing for war. I'm reminded of the Gulf of Tonkin:
    http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB132/tapes.htm

    the attacks on the USS Liberty in 1967
    http://www.ussliberty.org/

    I see 5 possible outcomes of massing attack fleets off the coast if Iran. Wondering if anyone has any military insight into this scary matter. Or see any other option that I do not see.

    1. Cruise Missle and tactical nuclear attack on a nation we already (illegally) decalred war on by associating them with an axis of Evil.
    http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/d...06&m=October&x=20061001163206uhyggep0.8763239

    2. A False Flag attack by our own government on our own troops to start a conflict (see Tonkin, USS Liberty...and yes....9-11)

    3. An illegal attack by Iranian forces on a US interest.

    4. A usual troop rotation, giving rest to forces that have been in the middle east long over their stay.

    5. sabre rattling.

    As an American, I believe we have already lost a lot, lives, liberty, and our freedom. I've been reading everyones posts, and see that we have a mix of Democrats and Republicans on this board. If there is an unprovoked attack on Iran, we as americans will know that our constitution has been SHARTED (yes I said 'sharted') upon, and our country as we knew it is now a Fascist Regime, bent on world domination.

    I pray and hope that cooler heads prevail, and we are going with #s 4 and 5 listed above. But the past actions of this Neo Conservative administration (as dictated by the PNAC) seem to point toward disaster.
    http://www.newamericancentury.org/defensenationalsecurity.htm


    F#@K the Democrats, and F^%K the Republicans....what have any of them done for you lately? Lowered your taxes? during a war? ..... great.


    Be and american, be a PATRIOT. Pray for peace, and dialog. Lets start here.
  2. 3 to be 4

    3 to be 4 Rookie

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    awesome post.
  3. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well if your a nutjob who believe that 9-11 was engineered by the goverment, there appears to be little room for a rational discussion. There are a few others who will enjot sharing your fantasy however.
  4. italia44

    italia44 Rookie

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    Thank God,Holy Diver,that this is your first post,because I can't believe anyone but Nem could create so many inaccuracies.

    The USS Liberty?
    That was a U.S. spy ship attacked by ISRAELI forces to keep Washington in the dark about Iarael's intentions.

    To use the deaths of innocent American sailors to further your paranoid,leftist, jihad is intolerable.

    More unspeakable is your intimation that the 3,000 deaths on 9-11 were perpetrated by our own government.
    This isn't political banter....it's Vile,
    insane and traitorous.
    You should be ashamed.

    You have to go back to Gulf of Tonkin incident to validate your ****eyed theory?
    Pathetic!
    Why don't you go back to the "self attack" on Pearl Harbor?
    It's a logical extension of your paranoia.

    Do you know that between 1988 and 2000,both Presidents Bush and Clinton sent the US Seventh Fleet into the Straits of Taiwan,to put China on notice that we would not allow them to sabre-rattle or invade Taiwan.
    This was a prudent and successful use of American power,both by a Republican and Democrat President.

    Do you know that Iran has purchased 2
    Kilo-class nuclear-capable submarines from the Chinese and that they will never leave their port,because we have a nuclear sub on station to prevent this?

    If we're sending the Fleet into the Persian Gulf,it's to protect the most important shipping lanes in the World or perhaps it's to Blockade Iran's ports to prevent the trans-shipment of nuclear materials.
    However,this prudent use of force wouldn't fit your ****eyed view of World History.

    Iran and N Korea are on notice:
    The United States and it's free citizens will not be subjected to Blackmail.

    Next time....get your facts straight.
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2006
  5. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    As you see, Holy Diver, some of the righties are a bit off their rocker with their hysterical and discourteous response to what you posted. While I don't believe our government was behind 9/11, it's also clear our government was rather lax and it's possible Rummy et al. were hoping for a minor provocation with which to justify war.

    I don't think we'll attack Iran before the election because it won't score Bush political points. Most people already think his foreign policy is incompetent, and an attack on Iran would be met by Iran moving into Iraq, which would probably force a Saudi response and create an oil nightmare. Bush has put us in a position where we have no effective response against Iran. I think we're simply sabre rattling right now, though God knows given how incompetent this administration has been, anything's possible.
  6. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    Where did he say that 9/11 was engineered by our government?
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If Human Waste Ever Becomes Of Value Poor People Will Be Born Without Rectums.
  8. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    Awesome!

    These responses are very interesting. Exactly the kind of dialog...minus the psychological evaluation and namecalling of some (paranoid leftist jihad?) ... that I want. I tend to stay away from political postings, because most peopel I run into think of politics as being tied to thinking as a Democrat or thinking as a Republican. They call you a lefty or a righty. Asking questions and seeking the truth is what being an American is all about. For those who stand by a political party before your country, I ask you to look into the mirror. Defending your position by namecalling is a viscious circle.

    Listen folks, none of us have a clue as to the intentions of the elite leaders that currently run our nation. I was merely raising a flag to something that is happening now, and its relationship to events of the past.

    I tend to agree with NEM on the intentions of our government, and hope for dialog between national leaders paves the way to global peace.

    I did say that I believe our government either gave "stand down" orders or...planned 9-11. I didn't write that exactly in my post...but it is in there. You don't have to agree with me...its my right to look at a situation from all angles, and ask questions. Its OUR right to disagree. But please, lets be adults and talk. The truth is closer to us than we think.
  9. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Read point #2 in the first post.
  10. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    These USS Liberty conspiracy theorists crack me up even more than the 9-11 conspiracy theorists. Aside from the usual amount of misinformation, misquotes, and made up "facts", they are essentially asking us to believe that Israel said "Hey, we are in the middle of a ridiculously chaotic war against Eqypt, Jordan and Syria fighting for our very survival... I know - let's attack the United States too while we're at it..!!" :rolleyes:
  11. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't mean to come off as personally attacking here, so let me appologize before I toss any insults. I'm sorry.

    but..... :rofl:


    [​IMG]


    :wha: You sound incrediblely dumb.
  12. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    well, well, well....Thats certainly a fact filled slap to the face if I've ever seen one.

    Its sounds more to me like people don't understand that if Bin Laden or the Government of Israel were behind both 9-11 and the attacks on the Liberty..they are by definition "conspiracies"

    Pronunciation: k&n-'spir-&-sE
    Function: noun
    Inflected Form(s): plural -cies
    Etymology: Middle English conspiracie, from Latin conspirare
    1 : the act of conspiring together
    2 a : an agreement among conspirators b : a group of conspirators


    anytime you have two people conspiring to do something, it becomes a conspiracy. The definition has been twisted in such a way to become associated with ghosts and goblins that sit in a dark room wearing black suits playing games of chance with human lfe and poiltics.


    Call me another name.....don't read....be a sheep.
  13. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Here's your problem (clarification: here's one of your many problems): You are using the textbook, dictionary definition of the word when the modern vernacular and common usage means something slightly different.

    For example, if someone refers to the "conspiracy theory" behind 9-11, they are generally referring to the ridiculous allegations that the United States governement was behind the attack, the whole "controlled demolition" nonsense, and so on and so forth.

    Yes, the Attack on America was a conspiracy. It was a conspiracy among roughly 20 Arabs who wanted to attack our political and governmental infrastructure and kill as many civilians as possible. But as mentioned above, the overwhelming usage of the term "conspiracy" means something else.
  14. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    Exactly. Good clarification on definitions of terms. CRAZY of me to be using a book to define something. Sorry, my bad.
  15. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Again, no offense bud, you're probably a cool dude and all. However, you clearly stated you think that our government gave "stand down" orders prior to 9/11.

    :rofl:
  16. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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  17. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    Ha!....those are good.

    I know, I know....I hear it all the time, man. Trust me....my folks are tight with Dubya and Bush 41. All up in our photo albums, and sailing...blah blah.

    throughout all debate, we can always agree on one thing:

    These kinds of back and forths is what is the best thing about being American. I'm glad we can argue, and punch back. As long as the dialog is open, I'm in for the discussion. And am willing to admit fault.
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2006
  18. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Glad to be of service..!! Like I said before, oftentimes commonly used vernacular does not exactly mesh with the dictionary definition... so when your reading comprehension improves over time, you'll learn to differentiate between the two without me having to baby you through the process.
  19. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    Now THAT is what I'm talking about!

    better to have an articulate, well thought out insult rather than to simply name call and 'nah-nah-nah' ....

    Well played. I like your moxie.
  20. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    :singing: :singing: :singing: What the hell else do you tie into politics in America, "deep sea fishing" ?
    :bricks:

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