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Obama's Speech at West Point - Iraq Over by 2011, 30K More Troops to Afghanistan

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by maverick4, Dec 1, 2009.

  1. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    On TV right now.

    There are two stories right now that Obama is selling, one real/hidden and one public/fake.

    Obama keeps saying that it's to get rid of the Taliban and Al Qaeda. However, there are only 100 Taliban left in Afghanistan, and Al Qaeda is an invented organization (Obama even admitted in the speech that Al Qaeda is non-existent in Afghanistan). He also keeps saying we want to democratize and uplift Afghanistan, but I don't buy it.

    The real reason is that we need to control Afghanistan in order to control the gas/petroleum there, and prevent any energy or resource cooperation between the Middle East, Russia, China, and India. We are playing empire, still. Obama's main advisor Brzezinski even wrote a book about doing this 10 years ago.

    Also, there is a disconnect for Afghanistan since he keeps saying the threat is in Pakistan. If we really wanted a rebuilt Afghanistan we wouldn't have left them out to dry after Charlie Wilson's war in Afghanistan against the Soviets. If we really wanted a rebuilt Afghanistan we wouldn't be ramping up the opium poppy fields over there. Also, we will still keep a presence in Iraq - after all, we just built the biggest US military base ever there.

    .
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2009
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I am listening to this in the background, the faces change, but the songs remain the same...
  3. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    As always he presented an optimistic, well thought out plan with style and heart. I think it'll work and make the world a better place.


    Boy oh boy is he gonna have a field day kicking Sara Palin's butt up and down the campaign trail in 2012.
  4. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Somehow I can't help but think he has to do this. in 2012 the gop will say Bush solved Iraq with the surge ... what did Obama do? I really hope this is not the case, but it does not make sense what he thinks he will achieve here. the Taliban will go home to their families and wait this all out ... like they have for hundreds of years. Arabs view conflicts in hundreds and thousands of years - a year or two is nothing. they will wait out this surge and they awill attack sporadically to keep up the recruitment.

    Look for a terrorist surge in Africa.
  5. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Weak speech no word of winning just telling the taliban when we are leaving. why bother when defeat is the goal? Sending troops into battle for the purpose of having talking points for the next election is wasting lives. If you are going in at all go in to win.
  6. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    What is victory?



    By the way, stop pretending you aren't going around voting on the threads, it's pretty obvious. Why is this guy still a mod???????
  7. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What is even the point of voting on threads does anyone even care?
    :singing:
  8. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Very well written article here that sums up a lot in a short space. Kind of in more expert terms says what i have been saying - that Obama is doing this but he's not crazy at all about it. I still say we could make a deal with the Taliban ... there are worse people in this world that we already deal with. they just want their piece of real estate ... let them have it with some agreements in place.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/01/opinion/01brooks.html?_r=2

    Last edited: Dec 1, 2009
  9. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

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    This reads like verbatim GOP talking points. Shocker.
  10. efin98

    efin98 Rookie

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    Please refute them then...
  11. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

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    There's nothing to refute. There are no facts in his post, just his standard thoughtless run-of-the-mill right-wing boilerplate.

    Andrew Sullivan had it exactly right:

    So Obama does basically what McChrystal requested, and is getting the troops to Afghanistan faster than was originally proposed. And yet nothing will ever be enough.
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2009
  12. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey



    But seriously we all know it won't be enough. Obama is between a rock and a hard place right now. He loses no matter what he does. That Times article I linked is pretty good ... very concise.
  13. efin98

    efin98 Rookie

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    So you really can't refute the claims, you are just complaining about him saying it in the first place. Shocker :rolleyes:



    Now to try to add something unlike other posters :rolleyes:

    Tonight was the worst thing for Obama...a time line. Any delays in it will be trouble for him and possibly fatal for his reelection, stating it will mean more attacks then a period of inactivity in anticipation of the eventual withdrawal.

    Frankly I think this is the South Vietnam situation all over again: leave the country when the enemy is seemingly "defeated" then they come back in full force and overtake the country again. Unless the US is going to back up Afghanistan again with full force the withdrawal is a sign to the Taliban to just bide their time across the border then invade when there is just their fellow "countrymen" left.
  14. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

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    You can roll your eyes all you damn want, but there's really nothing I can do to "refute" his opinion of Obama's speech. I was just noting that, once again, his reaction wasn't exactly...well, surprising or novel. Do you understand now?

    The timetable is a good idea. An open-ended commitment creates no incentive for Karzai or Pakistan to take serious action and lift their share because they know we'll always be there to shoulder the burden. Likewise, I think other NATO countries might be more inclined to either stay in Afghanistan or contribute more troops if there's some understanding of an endgame in sight.

    Sadly, I don't believe there to be any "victory" in Afghanistan beyond what we've already achieved. I suspect Obama realizes this as well.
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2009
  15. efin98

    efin98 Rookie

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    I understand exactly... And I am stating that if you are going to complain about what he said then at least back it up with why it is wrong instead of coming off like yet another one of the liberal whiners complaining about him for the sake of complaining.

    You are no better than him there in your complaint about it being the rehashed drivel. Refute them. Shoot them down with hard data. Don't just go back with "just as I expected" crap. Refute what he stated.

    That is assuming they even want to do anything...as long as they have the US behind them they don't have to do anything just cry to the US for help knowing that the US will pour more money and troops into the country to shore up defenses while the Taliban just sits back again biding their time.

    Conversely they also have reason to get out early if things get too heated there...why keep their own troops in danger when the US is pulling out in a few months anyway? Why would they get their own people killed for no reason anymore?

    Any notion of victory hinges on the country getting together and defending itself and not relying on the money and manpower of the US and NATO to do it for them...
  16. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Small sidetrack here ...
    how do you guys use that multi quote feature ... I'm too slow to understand it after 9:00 PM.
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2009
  17. efin98

    efin98 Rookie

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    Separate the original quote into separate paragraphs, highlight the text you want to quote, then press this button: [​IMG]. Copy/paste the original source then repeat above if taking quote from outside the original reply...
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2009
  18. MrSparkle

    MrSparkle Rookie

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    It's the little button next to the quote button. This one: [​IMG]

    Hit it on each post you want to quote. On the last quoted post, hit the normal quote button.
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2009
  19. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    f I am the Tali's I wait till the US leaves and then move, We have already told them we are gone, they win game over. Too bad some kids will have their lives wasted in the interim.
  20. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Tali's, Bammie and Boom Boom???... is this kindergarten??

    Guess you support a full fledged drawn out war, that is what makes the right and its military industrial complex happy... the only one's cheering this morning are the defense contractors... looking forward to how much money they can defraud from the US taxpayer..

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