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Obama to fix budget deficit by.....

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by IllegalContact, Nov 10, 2010.

  1. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact On the Roster

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    Last edited: Nov 10, 2010
  2. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The tax payers are going to get hosed:


    This increase is on top of the expising tax cuts this Jan.
  3. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    BTW libs & globalist want another trillion from taxpayers:

    We are headed to bankruptcy (120 Trillion + in unfunded liabilities) but hell another trillion a year who's countung.
  4. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    This sucks..


    The country was running SO well,projected massive budget surplusses, amd creating new jobs. We were self reliant on energy, and leading the world in new technology.

    Then Obama came along and f-ed it all up!




    Thanks A LOT!
  5. cupofjoe1962

    cupofjoe1962 Rookie

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  6. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    You forgot to mention 100billion in projected defense cuts per year

    also this is projecting these figures to INCLUDE the expiration of the Bush Tax cuts (700 billion)

    cutting 3 billion in farm subsidies

    so, it would be fair if you included Billionaires, Farmers and defense contractors in your post
  7. khayos

    khayos Rookie

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    There are a ton of great proposals in here... I'm very impressed and kudos to the President. I hope he and the saner Democrats are ready for the adult conversation and these proposals are an excellent start. The far left are still out of their minds; I really am surprised that Obama would be okay with this.
  8. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    there are some good and bad in the proposals.. I listed some above..here are some others:

    _Increasing the gasoline tax by 15 cents a gallon to finance transportation programs.

    _A three-year freeze in the pay of most federal employees and a 10 percent cut in the federal work force.

    _Eliminating all congressional pet projects, known as earmarks.





    so taking ALL that into account....assumung the rich don't get their beloved tax breaks extended and the president goes along with EVERY cost saving measure....





    there is still a gap of 380 billion.

    (from the Yahoo article)

    "Even with the dramatic proposals, the Bowles-Simpson plan would leave deficits of about $380 billion in 2015, the year by which Obama tasked the group with balancing the federal budget, except for interest payments on a national debt that now stands at $13.7 trillion. If the changes to Social Security are dropped, the deficit would be about $400 billion in 2015."
  9. khayos

    khayos Rookie

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    Is that factored based upon the current collection/growth in the economy? By reducing the corporate tax rate and the income rates as well as getting rid of the loopholes, that kind of straightforward accounting practice could project to serious economic growth.
  10. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    stop making sense when talking about projected things the government will decide to do.

    In my opinion, here is what will happen....

    NOTHING. Dems will cave on social programs, hoping to get the republicans to cave on tax cuts....and they will not. Individual reps and senators will not want to cut thier own earmarks, so none will get cut. Congress will threaten a gov't shutdown...and make it happen. The US credit will default and the dollar will be worthless.

    Yen, yen, YEN!

    get some!
  11. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    A couple of (non-partisan) points:

    - I think the bipartisan commission is actually as advertised, from the looks of things. In other words, there's a lot here that pisses me off. There's a lot here that pisses off the right-wing loonies here. "Something that pisses off everyone" means all sides did, in fact, weigh in.

    - The reactions here are pretty comical. You really, really think this is easy, don't you, guys? It reminds me of how McCain was going to balance the entire budget by eliminating 17 billion in earmarks, and write the names of people who got them on bathroom walls or something.

    - This is presented and reacted to as an "Obama wants to do x y and z" story. These are the findings of a commission. I don't doubt he'll take an awful lot of it, from both sides, based on how conciliatory he's been lately.

    I won't even enumerate the things that are wrong here and the things that are right, at least not in this post. There's still a right wing, Obama keeps thinking they'll eventually accept some but not all power, and he is likely to keep attempting to compromise. Perhaps there is something I'm missing, but this just looks stupid to me.

    However, what we're looking at on this list includes a great deal of just plain wrongness, and that should make the rightists happy ;)

    PFnV
  12. PatsFanInVa

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    clarification - what I think is stupid here is Obama's evident belief that Republicans and teabaggers will accept some but not all power. This commission's findings? Meh. Lots I like, lots I don't. This might be the best we can do. I'd prefer to do the job without enfocing poverty on millions of Americans. But at least it addresses the question realistically and whacks away at all the sacred cows. If you really want to eliminate deficits, it hurts. That's what you see here.
  13. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    the pubies have controlled the house for a week now and the economies still bad, i thought they were going to fix things.And where are the jobs?????
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2010
  14. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    My overall feeling after reading the article was a general feeling of sadness. I guess it's because it's depressing that we've allowed ourselves to get to this point. If I want to blame anyone, I honestly feel betrayed by our politicians on every side. They've let us believe all would be ok for eternity while they plotted ways to inflate our economy to placate Americans and give them time to figure out how to deal with the pending collapse/crash.

    Yes, I believe they all knew what was coming for a long time. They just spent money they didn't have for decades building an illusion of "all is good, prosperity and God bless America"

    And now the only thing that comes to my mind is the serenity prayer (for all you friends of Bill W)

    God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I can not change,
    Courage to change the things I can,
    And the Wisdom to know the difference.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2010
  15. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact On the Roster

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    Fewest unemployment filings since April of 2008 this week.....there ya go
  16. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    ummmmm....they don't take over until January, I believe Flex was being sarcastic.
  17. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    #95 Jersey


    Those "homeowners" are those with second homes and mortgages in excess of 500K.........Sorry but I missed the inherent unfairness of that, especially if they keep the tax deductions for those with lesser mortgages....
  18. PatsFanInVa

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    But the obvious success of the policies of the current congress and the administration is noted.

    :D
  19. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Assets and liabilities, PR.

    Taxes and obligations.

    Debt happens when you spend and don't tax. "They've" seen it coming? We've seen it coming. We bleat "no taxes no taxes no taxes." Yet our spending, even before we were in this massive clusterfu(k starting in 07-08, exceeded our assets -- that is to say, our taxation.

    The odd part of it, to me, is that you would express sadness at the obvious and predictable result of decades of undertaxation, and simultaneously insist that taxes are too high.

    As to spending, I personally can live with the idea that it's got to be addressed. There is no shortage of voices saying this repeatedly. Put together a bipartisan commission and you begin to get what this means. Big things, not little things.

    The ones they went after hit the rank and file too much for my tastes. But the level of cuts does have to be high, if the goal is to address the deficit. It's a big project, not something you fix by "eliminating earmarks." Earmarks are good for moral outrage (especially other states' earmarks; one's own are very good earmarks, as Rand Paul just announced.) But earmarks aren't big enough to make a dent by themselves. You have to shortchange social security, medicaid/medicare, defense, and other big-ticket items. I note too that this proposal appears to freeze my own personal income for three years.

    Interesting side-note on that last bit: provision one re: government employment pretty much guarantees provision two. Three years sounds nice and satisfying to the casual observer, but it's also got a magical effect on the government worker contemplating retirement. The govt workers contemplating it who are under the old Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS). Their pension is set at a percentage of their three highest earning years. So let's say your three highest years to date are 67K, 69K, and 71K - for an average of 69K. If you get frozen at your present high, 71K, you work two more years and the average goes from 69 to 71 - i.e., your three highest are 71, 71, and 71.

    Then you're looking at one more year at 71... for the same retirement... or two more years, to get the "next raise," which at this point is a total unknown.

    I think the idea is that the three year freeze, in addition to saving the money that would otherwise be earned by the mass of the workplace, will encourage earlier retirements, and lose that 10% of workforce through attrition.

    So as I said, something for everybody to hate. Oddly enough, for me, I looked at the part that effects federal employees, and I just shrugged. I sort of knew some nice hefty whack at government earners was coming. I'll probably do more freelance writing, what can I say. I'm more bothered by the effect of the social security and medicare/medicaid effects, and I'd like for the answer to include a bigger tax hike - yes, on me too.

    But this is the order of magnitude we're looking at, if we're serious about the deficit and the debt.

    If it's just a slogan for teabaggers, that's one thing. If it's a serious policy conversation, that's something else, and it's much more painful.

    Yes, politicians of all sides have babbled about cutting taxes, and done it -- because it's an easy bone to throw to people to get votes. Everybody's taxes are always too high, unless there aren't any. "Tax" is one number. You promise it will decrease. Then it does. Hurray! Except of course that it has a toxic effect on the budget.

    The truth is that, at least since the Clinton years, taxes have been too low for the math to work. Even then, in the age of surpluses, it could be argued that the best course would be to address the country's problems rather than over-adjust the tax policy downward.

    Actually cutting things of any size on the spending side is harder. Obviously, civil servants are perpetually in the crosshairs in such conversations. I guess I can live with that, though the guy in the mail-room or whatever might have a different take on it. But what galls me is that the Corporations actually get tax cuts in it, while the poor and the middle class get told, again, to tighten their belts.

    Plus ca change.

    PFnV
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2010
  20. PatriotsReign

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    The source of my sadness isn't the fact that we are dealing with our deficit...it stems from the fact that I know our gov't KNEW our economy would crash. There is no way you nor I could see that coming. Point being that we never had to get to this point in the first place.

    You say we all saw "this" coming in reference to dealing with the deficit. You point your finger at those who have complained about "more taxes", but not at those responsible for increasing the spending. Guess what? It's the fault of those who increased spending, not those complaining about taxation.

    You and other say we're not taxed enough, but you never count ALL FORMS of taxes we pay. If we counted gasoline tax, sales tax, internet tax, hotel tax, cell phone tax, cable tax, property tax...well, I hope you get the picture.

    Americans can't pay half their salary in all the various forms of taxes and expect to maintain a middle class. And our middle class right now can least afford any more taxes. I stand by that statement as solid fact.

    Having said that, I'll wait to analyze the final tax rate changes. It seems that our federal tax rate may become a flat tax at a much lower rate than it currently is and I find that encouraging. Hopefully, taxation upon our middle class will actually be lower or at worst, remain the same.

    Time will tell.

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