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Obama to Americans: say GOODBYE to your 401/IRA investment.I go after them

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by NEPatriot, Jan 16, 2010.

  1. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

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    Americans Oppose Proposals to Limit 401(k)s, ICI Says (Update2) - Bloomberg.com


    Argentina seizes pension funds to pay debts. Who's next? – Telegraph Blogs

    Yes, Obama uses our 401k/IRA investment to pay the country debt. Your future is on Obama's hand.Great news!

    We own less and less every day. We are lucky to own the house before Obama takes it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2010
  2. Harry Boy

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    It becomes clearer each day why Chavez/Castro are in love with Barack Hussein (jug ears) Obama
     
  3. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

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    Some of us will retire PENNILESS after obama's presidency.
     
  4. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He's still got 3 more years he very well may create another Civil War.
     
  5. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

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    IF it happened, Obama would NOT have 3 years. You can take it to the bank!:singing::singing::singing::singing:

    What Obama is doing right now is he tries to diffuse a clicking bomb. When it goes off, we have a WAR that makes other wars in history looks small.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2010
  6. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

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    Here is the SCARY part. If Obama doesn't have any money to pay us down the road, his secretary will send us a personal signed IOU letter from Obama. Everybody in this country will receive it. Is it awesome??

    Obama wants to get money by TAXING it but he realizes that it doesn't help him to do it. He is looking at everybody's 401K/IRA investment. Obama is an evil person.

    If he finds that your 401k/IRA is too small, he goes after your house and accounts too. Welcome to a SOCIALIST USA!
     
  7. PatsFanInVa

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    You really need to go to some sort of community college remedial reading class.

    You quote a guy who reports that career feds in your "scary scary story" are in favor of exploring ways to encourage the conversion of 401(k)s into annuities (rather than leave them riding on volatile equities markets.)

    There is not one word even in your scaremonger's account about "taxing" or "socializing" 401(K) savings.

    What either has to do with Argentina is beyond me.

    And then you waste all our time with another impassioned exclamation point filled blatherfest about socialism blah blah blah.

    Grow the fu(k up.

    PFnV
     
  8. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

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    You not only want to grow up more but you also need to do is to try to use your brain more. You need to ask the following questions:

    1- Why does Obama want to convert your 401k/IRA investment to 'annuities'? Because he loves you so much or care about your 'money'???

    2- Do you know what 'annuities are'?????

    Why don't you answer these questions for me? After you do that, everything will make sense. If you are unable to answer these questions, ask me and i'll do it for you. Perhaps, you can see something. Agree?
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2010
  9. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

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    This guy TALKED about it LAST YEAR. Obama is thinking about doing it RIGHT NOW.

    Will Obama Seize Americans' 401k and IRA Funds? ~ Washington's Blog

     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2010
  10. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    401Ks and IRAs have low risk options also. Despite all the howling about 401Ks turning into 201Ks, no-one foreces people to put their money in stocks. They all have stock, bond and money market (or equivalent) options. I'll keep control of my retirement money, thank you very much.
     
  11. IcyPatriot

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    #87 Jersey

    :rofl: ... you're always good for a chuckle if nothing else NEP.

    it's what it's
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2010
  12. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

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    Perhaps, you can tell your liberal friends what 'annuities' are. It WOULD NOT what it is IF some of us did not drink Obama KOOL-AID.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2010
  13. IcyPatriot

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    #87 Jersey


    Well then I suggest you dump yours out ... switch to Green Tea.
     
  14. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

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    It means you don't know what 'annuities' are. Green Tea is not good. White tea is better. You don't know that, do you?
     
  15. IcyPatriot

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    #87 Jersey


    You know ... I come here to learn from you and you deliver. :confused3:

    It's What It's.
    :nosmile:
     
  16. PatsFanInVa

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    Coming from you of course I take that as a compliment.

    Although the administration figures under discussion do serve under this administration, I know for a fact that Borzi also served under the previous administration. I believe Iwry was formerly w/Brookings. If you want this to be Obama sitting in the oval office rubbing his hands together with an evil grin, knock yourself out. But it's way more wonky than that. At least BF responded to that fact, and cut to the chase: He wants to play the market and says so. The wonk viewpoint is that across a society playing the market does not work; that timing can ream an individual who is making riskier bets; and that typically the broad mass of retirees will not behave rationally given the current incentives.


    I should really just treat your question as beneath contempt, but yes I do. By the way, do you know the difference between a C-and-C annuity and a J-and-S annuity? How about a J-and-S "popup" annuity? Do you know whether a straight-life annuity is the same thing as a single-life annuity? Why don't you hold forth on the world of annuities and teach me what I need to know. I admit to having only a passing familiarity.

    Oh please great and wise teacher, by the same intellectual power that enables you to post dozens of threads in a single morning with no actual content and utter disregard for the actual substance of what you post, please, please enlighten me, that I may be lifted from the benighted masses to your level of erudition!

    your humble servant,

    PFnV
     
  17. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    I'm not sure I do but I want the option depending on how my retirement situation works out. Unless you have a LOT ($2M+) in retirement funds when you retire, you're going to need some growth over money market type growth given the ever increasing life expectancy.
     
  18. PatsFanInVa

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    I should have said you want the full range of options. That's probably a better summation. Encouraging one option over others does not necessarily curtail that range, but it would put public policy ahead of your individual investment choice, to the extent that you would not be "encouraged" while those receiving annuities would be. One could argue that the current structure in effect discourages retirement security in favor of unbounded freedom to invest, and that the Borzi/Iwry request for comment essentially favors a leveling of the playing field. The overall state of affairs of retirement security is the government's concern, while the individual's concern may be the right to unfettered risk-taking (if the individual so desires.)

    I mean, I disagree with your position in terms of a driver of public policy, but at least it's within the continuum of reasoned debate. Given the choice, I would side with a reasonable position I disagree with over a random chicken-little fear post any day.

    PFnV
     
  19. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

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    When you read the news, you need to pay attention to what HAPPENED last year and what Obama is doing right now. You can not read the news and state that Obama wants to convert your 401k to annuity account because it's NOT that simple.

    We know the following things:

    1- Obama BOUGHT AIG. The larget insurance company.
    2- Obama BAILED out Banny and Fran and gave them UNLIMIT money.
    3- Obama wants to control your 401K/IRA investment.
    4- Chinese and other foreign countries don't want to buy any Treasury bonds any more.

    I want you to ask yourself the following questions:

    1- When Obama controls your 401k/IRA investment, can you control where and how Obama uses your money? No?
    2- Will your 401k/IRA investment be on the hand of AIG and Banny Fran bank?

    3-Why do you let Obama use your money to buy bad treasury bonds that Chinese and other countries don't want to touch? In another word, Obama uses your investment money to buy 'country debt'. The fact of the matter is IF Chinese and others buy our bonds, i doubt Obama uses your money to do it.
     
  20. PatsFanInVa

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    I didn't. You did. However, "Obama" is a pretty far reach here. It's more like the defined contribution plan policy community, and it's a longstanding point of contention: can you encourage behavior that, spread over the entirety of the DC-dependent landscape, will yield best outcomes? Since far sub-optimal outcomes result from the current state of affairs, it is more than anything a conversation about whether the individual has some God-given "right" to the 401(k) as currently envisioned, or whether as a part of the structure of a 401(k) you should encourage optimal outcomes across the whole 401(k) dependent retiree and future-retiree community. There are many rules in setting up 401(k) plans; one of them could easily be the provision of an annuity as the default choice, with an opt-out option for those who object to annuitizing of some or all of their benefit.

    We know no such thing, no matter how many verbs you spell with all capital letters. AIG was bailed out by Paulson under the Bush Administration. This is part of the talking-point-amnesia effect of the ideological echo-chamber. You start talking about all "their guy's" stuff as including all the things you ideologically oppose; All "your guy's stuff" therefore equates to everything you ideologically support.

    This should help you out: The meltdown that the market purist anti-regulatory regime precipitated was so complete, that even the market purist president and Secretary of Treasury of the time nationalized an insurance company.

    So, what we "know," is that you've proven yourself to have an insufficient command of the facts to even engage in the conversation.

    ...add to the previous, you have insufficient command of the language as well, not to mention the names of the actual players. What the hell are Banny and Fran? Do you mean Freddie Mac/Fanny Mae? Again, that was the result of the '08 bailout; again, it was deemed necessary by both parties at the time.

    We just established that this is, once again, not something we know. You just want to know it -- just like you wanted to "know" that Obama took over AIG.

    That's very odd, since everybody else does:

    Treasuries Rise as Retail Sales Decline Boosts Bond Demand - Bloomberg.com

    Now then, the demand for U.S. treasuries, by all accounts, currently remains strong; there are various "sky is falling" scenarios about what happens if China -- and others, including direct domestic bidders -- lost their taste for U.S. debt. But hypotheticals are not something "we know". They might be something we fear. Despite the best efforts of Fox, NewsMax, TinfoilHelmetBlog.com, et al., the two are still not one and the same.

    I will be glad to have that conversation when Obama, or any member of the administration, proposes government control over all 401(k) accounts. That is not what is happening in the quoted story. They are examining ways to encourage individuals to invest in annuities.

    By the way, I've noticed that you declined to further enlighten me on the topic of annuities.

    I still don't know WTF Banny Fran is. Whether AIG will underwrite any appreciable portions of any such annuities strikes me as a silly question. AIG is -- or at least was -- primarily a "reinsurer," that is a company that insures others companies' financial risks.

    Beyond that, the comment period has to do with encouraging a choice on the part of an individual. One example would be the opt-out choice I noted earlier -- that is, to present to the retiree the option of having his benefit annuitized by any insurer. Here's one way to work it: upon retirement, give a tax advantage to someone who chooses to annuitize a portion of his 401(k) account. For example, 401(k) savings are currently tax-deferred, but when you draw down your money you have to pay the taxes on it. You could introduce a certain exempted portion of annuitized income that effectively lowers the tax rate on a draw-down in annuitized form.

    A few problems: You haven't established any of the terms of your above argument. You have not established that demand for U.S. treasuries is weak; indeed, at this writing, it remains strong. You haven't established that Obama will ever have control of anybody's retirement money, nor does the story you link to establish any such thing.

    You have only said you fear all these outcomes.

    The sum total of what you have written above is that you are afraid.

    That is what we "know" from your actual post.

    PFnV
     

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