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Obama should use the 14th Amendment

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Jul 30, 2011.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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  2. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well The Treasury collects ~200B per month. If you read the comments there is reference to a Prior USSC case. The US os required to pay the US Bond Holders their interest on their bonds ~30B, that leaves ~170B for other pensions and so on .

    A default is when the Bond Holders are not paid the interest on the Bonds issued by the US Government. So Bachmann, Palin and The Tea Party is correct when they sy the US WILL NOT DEFAULT if the Debt ceiling is not raised. There is NO NEED to raise the debt ceiling to avoid default. The PResident has no choice he is legally to pay the BOndholders and the Treasury had the $$$ to do so.

    Now the Treasury couldn't issue new government Bonds, and It could disrupt the current functions of government that go beyond the ~170B that is left after the treasury Bond Holders are paid their Interest.

    The the issue is what gets paid beyond that, SS is ~65B so that can be covered, Military, Meidcare and so on. Clearly many functions of government would be curtailed until Reid decided to start acting in a responsible manner.

    That is more of a problem for the dems than the Tea Party, since the Dems and RINO are the Party of big government and the Tea Party is advocating living within our means.
     
  3. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The article maintains that prior USSC rulings state that neither the President nor Congress can pick and choose what authorized expenditures to pay for and what not to pay for.

    The Tea Party is not advocating for living within our means, it's advocating for smaller government. We can just as easily live within our means by raising taxes on the wealthy.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2011
  4. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Idiots.

    This is sort of like saying "well I don't have to have a job. I paid the bills that were on the one-month first-late-warning pile, and they don't put it on my credit report until 2 missed payments."

    It's playing with fire that we're even talking about this right now. This should not be under discussion, because this should have been settled months ago.

    We've seen the markets beginning to crumble. We've seen the warnings from Moody's, Fitch, and S&P.

    We know the world does not look very kindly upon our present attitude of theatre as a substitute for responsibility. We know these laughable substitutes for legislation like cut, knee-cap, and disembowel or whatever the hell your clown heroes called it, are being seen for exactly what they are: wastes of time. And then dragging out the timeline on Boehner's own bill? Joke. Pure joke. Wrinkly orange dude isn't even pure enough for these twits.

    Congrats, your heroes are running down the clock rapidly. We'll watch the Reid bill get slammed over on the House side, ho-hum, lah-di-dah, and eventually it will be clear to everybody that they simply cannot do their jobs.

    The 14th amendment does say the full faith and credit shall not be questioned.

    Well, it's in question when the government makes obligations without making arrangements to pay those obligations. This idiotic idea that we should parse day-by-day the countdown to full-on refusal to pay bond interest? Good luck with that. I believe the number of separate transactions you're talking about parsing is in the tens of millions -- as in tens of millions of checks, in that hundreds of billions (about $300 billion) due in August.

    I really, really hope -- for your sake as well as mine, because you're an American (not one I like much or agree with, but an American nonetheless... that's not so hard to do, is it?) -- that we settle this crap this weekend.

    Next domino: watching the market on Monday. Next domino: August 2... after which we start to refuse to pay our obligations. Next domino: what amount do you need to entice a bond buyer to buy a U.S. bond? August 4 is a bond auction... wonder what the coupon rate will be on those bad boys...

    And it begins.

    Want to know what's funny? You're advocating just not paying as a solution to debt. The outcome will be higher interest on new debt. But it will also be the devaluation of the dollar. At that point, you've monetized much of your previous debt.

    Since the economy isn't a bumper sticker or a sound bite, you get these interesting outcomes in every set of circumstances. Of course, the downside of this little stunt will be with us for years, and it ain't worth it for the monetization we get out of it.

    Oh and the reserve currency thing? Pretty sure that's over.

    But what's important is that your silly party caucus gets to cleverly redefine default to mean only interest payments on debt, not payments for other obligations by the U.S.

    PFnV
     
  5. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I understand however in the comments section a poster pointed out a prior USSC decision the author appeared to be unaware of the ruling, thanked the posted is researching the decision.
     
  6. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

  7. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Obama needs to change the topic the economy is tanking again unemployment isn't going down, he has no record to run on. So they trumped up a crisis. They wanted to reproduce the success Clinton had in 1995 shutting down the government and blaming it on Gingrich. The problem Gingrich was a lightning rod Boehner and McConnell are wimps no lightning rod. The other issue was that the economy was doing OK in 95, the economy is lousy now and Obama is whining about the debt limit every day while people continue to lose jobs. Totally over his head.



    Seems the crisis isn't helping Obama as hoped. But they have no fallback plan so they continue trying to use the media to bludgon the pubs. The problem are the Tea Party pubs who aren't interested in play the establishment game and selling out the people who elected them.
     
  8. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    LMAO LMAO LMAO... more wisdom from opposite world!

    Yeah, he "trumped up a crisis" by attempting to raise the debt ceiling so the nation he's president of doesn't go down the tubes. Yeah, the economy is tanking again -- gee whilikers, in direct response to a concerted effort by the GOP TO TANK IT.

    What an utter waste of time.
     
  9. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Actually if the Ryan plan had been passed by the Senate which hadn't taken up the budget in >800 days there would be no risk of a downgrade of our credit rating. Our credit rating will be down graded because of the spending which has up on the same track as Greece.

    All Obama and Reid have done is say no Reid can;t even get his resolution out of the Senate and won't allow debate on the House proposals.

    What cowards, playing politics with the nations economy.

    Obama can't run on his failed record lies are all the left has.
     
  10. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    So, what is his plan. Seems to have time to go on TV asking everyone else to come up with a plan. He makes political speeches blaming other for playing politics.

    He could really make the GOP look like fools if he came up with a real plan to reduce the debt and future deficits. That is what the American people want by a large margin.
     
  11. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He endorsed (sadly) the Gang of Six proposal, the bipartisan proposal that cuts $4 trillion through mostly budget cuts, but also closing loopholes. In fact, he continues to push that plan. I think it's pretty obvious that the Republicans would oppose any plan that Obama himself proposed, and it appears he's been bought by the corporate interests, so he won't propose anything bold (such as by making an economic case for higher taxes on the rich, rather than the altruistic case he's been making).
     
  12. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    So, unlike the Rep's, he's afraid to put out his own plan for fear it won't pass.? That is leadership?

    Then he shouldn't be bashing everyone else for playing politics, he reeks of politics.
     
  13. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What do you want? He's a DLC (a la Joe Lieberman Democrat) focused on bipartisanship at all costs, even surrendering Democratic values. That said, I suspect whatever he did would be seen by you as him playing politics.
     
  14. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    I've wanted him to be a leader in this "crisis" by putting out his own plan in detail. Is that too much to ask a man who was elected POUS?
     
  15. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

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    #70 Jersey

    to use the Equal Protection Clause to strike down affirmative action, which came into being thanks to Nixon's executive order?
     
  16. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    That is, in a nutshell, the crux of the whole problem. A real President and leader, instead of the gutless wimp crackhead currently occupying that office, would be able to sit down with Congressional leaders (from both sides of the aisle) and get a good deal finished. What he lacked in legal authority he would make up for in moral authority to get things done.

    But instead the incompetent, bumbling fool Obama has absolutely no way to fix events that have long since spiralled out of his control.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2011
  17. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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  18. patsfan13

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    It was a series of goals with no specifics what so ever, not even the outline of a plan, the legislative equivalent of hope and change.


    He is a specific plan to eliminate the debt and run a surplus.

    Take A Chainsaw To The Budget - Stossel's Take Blog - FoxBusiness.com

    Add a 17% Flat Tax with no double taxation of corp profits and the unemployment would be 3-4% in a couple of years.
     
  19. patsfan13

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  20. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    PF13's right. Ryan had a detailed budget, passed by the House. The pubbies exposed themselves politically somewhat by outlining specific items to cut. Obama outlined goals to cut spending by a similar amount (without specifics). Smart politically, but not really what you would call "leadership".
     

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