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Obama scraps Bush-era missile defense for new plan

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by reflexblue, Sep 17, 2009.

  1. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    A very good move in my opinion. The plan wasn't feasable in the first place
    it only antagonized Russia for the sake of looking tough. The idea was to protect Europe from an attack from Iran or other like countys or regimes.

    Let Europe protect itself it they think its warrented.

    Now we can move on to further reducing Nukes.

    The Navy can station ships with anti ballistic missles in the Red Sea and do the same thing.

    Obama scraps Bush-era missile defense for new plan - CNN.com

    WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The United States is overhauling Bush-era plans for a missile defense shield in Europe, based partly on the latest analysis of Iran's offensive capabilities, President Obama said Thursday.


    President Obama on Thursday says the Bush-era missile defense plan will be replaced with a new system.

    1 of 3 The "new missile defense architecture in Europe ... will provide capabilities sooner, build on proven systems and offer greater defenses against the threat of missile attack than the... program" that former President George W. Bush proposed, Obama said.

    Obama said the change of gears was based on an "updated intelligence assessment" about Iran's ability to hit Europe with missiles.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2009
  2. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Good post ... hopefully Obama can work with Russia regarding Iran. They are economically tied at the hip though so I'm not hopefull this gets us anywhere ... but a good move regardless by Barack.
     
  3. patsfan13

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    The Poles & Chezk's don't share your opinion, neither do the people in the Ukraine & Georgia not that Obama has thrown them under the bus.

    Adding insult to injury we did thsi to Poland a very good Ally on the 70th anniversary of the Russian invading Poland during WW2.


    BTW a little more on Barry's game:



    Trading national security and selling allies dwon the drain for campaign contributions and verbal bj from matthews and olbermann, beautiful.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2009
  4. DarrylS

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    "Bullls on Parade"... the reality is that most of the stuff being developed conceptually costs beyond billions of dollars, is unproven and all that ever benefit is the military industrial complex...

    This is a good thing... we have enough in place for the next 50 years..
     
  5. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I'd like to know why we're committed to defending Europe from Iranian missiles. Shouldn't that be Europe's job?
     
  6. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Putin's got him, now watch Russia start crapping all over us.

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  7. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    I knew i could count on you to make some ridiculous claim like national security.

    The whole idea wasn't technically feasible in the first place. And it protects Poland, Ukraine, the Czecks from whom . This is supposse to protect the Western Europe from attack from Iran, not protect Eastern Europe from Russia. What your saying supports the Russians, that its there to be used against them not iranians.

    Please explain why placing abm's in eastern Europe protects us. In fact it reduced National security, puting missiles in poland would be like the Russians putting missiles in lets say.....Cuba.

    Again we can do the same thing by placing guided missile cruisers in the Red Sea.
     
  8. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

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    Very good move by Obama. Stop wasting money on a system whose effectiveness is dubious; this ain't 1980 anymore.
     
  9. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    France 24 | Rasmussen calls for integrated Russia, US, NATO missile system | France 24

    In a major speech outlining his vision for enhanced ties with Moscow, NATO chief Anders Fogh Rasmussen issued his call 24 hours after US President Barack Obama's decision to scrap a plan to install an anti-missile shield and radar in eastern Europe.

    Offering to embrace Russian President Dmitry Medvedev's ideas for a joined-up security arrangement stretching from the Far East to the west coast of America, Rasmussen asked in return for Moscow to exert maximum pressure on Iran over its nuclear programme.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2009
  10. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    The missle defense shield, while laughable to some, is actually an important piece moving forward. 20 years ago it sounded stupid, especially since it was "mutually assured destruction" if nukes were ever launched (Cold War). Now though, the threats have changed. No longer are we solely fearfull of a Soviet/US war. Now, the worry is the technological advance of rogue nations such as Iran & NK, and there inevitable ability to launch missles. Not that either nation could destroy us with a few nukes, but the mere use of one, is what makes missle defense important. However, with us quickly amassing tens of trillions in debt, fighting 2 wars abroad, and recieving limited aid from nations in europe, I say **** them. Why should we defend europe any longer? I'd flash europe the finger, develop a shield for our own defense, and then sell them the service for a price. Not the technology, not the weaponry, just the service. So count me as someone who's glad we're not wasting money on europe's defense.
     
  11. reflexblue

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    #91 Jersey

    RW in reading up on this i found out we have missile defense shields in Alaska and Cali.

    And yes screw the Europeans, i'm tired of always fighting their battles. They sit back and expect it now....Lazy

    Finally this is about the missile shield in Eastern Europe, not Reagans of 20 years ago, while a neat idea again not feasible at the time.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2009
  12. patsfan13

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    Look at a Globe, Poland is on the path of a missle going from Iran to the US. It also helps the Eastern Wuropean countries that are deling with Russia.

    The Poles are currently deploying more men to Afghanistan, to help us, not many radical Islamist in Poland. We in turn throw the Poles under the bus, Obama screwing out friends and kissing our enemies butts, perfect.
     
  13. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

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    Some day you'll wake up and realize we're not in the middle of the Cold War.
     
  14. patsfan13

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    Your right I woke on 9-11-09 and realized we weren't in a cold war we are in a hot war and a couple of my co workers never out of the windows on the world resturant were a seminar was scheduled. Our opponents aren't suffereing from ADD like liberals are.

    I doubt you will ever wake up.
     
  15. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    Hey ahh hello anybody home? The Russians DIDN'T fly planes into the WTC. WTF
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2009
  16. alvinnf

    alvinnf In the Starting Line-Up

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    I think this is a good move. In the future we should be worrying about bombs entering our country in suitcases not warheads!

    Oh and,
    Screw Europe!
     
  17. Stokes

    Stokes In the Starting Line-Up

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    I disagree with the decision for multiple reasons. First The whole idea behind missile defense is a layered strategy, with multiple opportunities to intercept before detonation. Removing long range missile defense from eastern europe removes a layer of defense.

    Second it is a capitulation to Russia without getting anything back from them. Nuclear reduction is just as much in their interest as it is ours, in fact more so since they can't maintain their current stocks anyway and would have fallen behind whether we reduced or not. If our goal is increased cooperation with Iran we've seen no results. Russia continues to oppose sanctions against Iran, and is supposedly still planning on selling advanced weapons systems to them. If there is some kind of deal in place that makes the change look better IMO, but we've seen no evidence of that yet.

    Third this ignores another very real threat to us; that the Russian nuclear program could deteriorate to the point where one of their ICBMs could be accidentally launched, or access to a launch facility gained by some outside group. JackBauer comments that it is not 1980, I can tell you I felt a lot better about the security of the Russian nuclear arsenal under the Soviets in 1980 than I do today.

    Fourth the stated reason for the shift is that Iran is supposedly behind on their ability to launch medium and long range missiles. To me this ignores the fact that they continue work on these programs and eventually WILL have the capability. We need to be prepared for that day to come. Either you make sure they don't make a bomb or you make sure you can stop them from using it. Obama is doing neither, gutting the missile defense program R&D AND pulling out of eastern europe.

    Fifth this move signals a return to the cold war idea that eastern europe is somehow Russia's domain (or sphere of influence if you will). It ignores the fact that these are NATO member states and should be protected and dealt with as such. THEY think the program is in their interest, so we should as well.

    In the world as it stands today if I had to pick ONE military system to focus our time, energy, and funding on it would be the best missile defense system we can produce. We're not there yet with long range missile interception, but to me that is reason only to redouble our efforts, not to shut the program down. We have proven again and a again that we are unable to stop the proliferation of nuclear weapons (China, India, Pakistan, North Korea, even Israel, with Iran and who knows who else on the way). It is therefore critical that we create mechanisms to render the weapons systems useless or face a future in which we face the likes of North Korea or Iran with the capability to strike US soil with a nuclear weapon and try to stop them from exerting undue influence on their regions then.

    edit: seeing alvin's post I agree our detection of radioactive material needs to be improved as well.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2009
  18. Harry Boy

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  19. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    No matter how many words you type.It is not plausible, the technology is NOT there, OK. Its a wast of money and only inflammes the situation.

    And this is not capitulating to the Russians they've already given us something tangable the right to use bases on their soil to bring supplies into Afganistan.
    __________________
     
  20. Stokes

    Stokes In the Starting Line-Up

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    The technology is plausible in that the math works, it just is not ready yet. To me that is no reason to scrap it given its importance to our national security. It is a long-term investment the same way that alternative energy is a long-term investment, and both and critical to our national interests. I'm not going to advocate gutting investment in solar energy just because current technology is not efficient enough or financially feasible on a large scale.

    Are you talking about Russia allowing us to use their airspace to fly into Afghanistan or Kyrgyzstan allowing us to keep using their base after the Russians almost closed it in February, a decision for which we had to triple our "rent" from $17 million a year to over $60? Are these the great strides we're getting for giving in on missile defense and getting no traction on Iran?

    I am less worried "inflamming" the situation than I am about the weakness we show by selling out NATO allies to appease our new Russian "friends." It is only opinion but we seem to be extending olive branches to countries unwilling to help us (Russia, Iran, China) while giving the big middle finger by those that have stood by us (Poland, Israel, Ukraine).

    Sorry if my last post was too long for you, as you can see I had a lot of reasons I opposed the move.
     

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