Welcome to PatsFans.com

Obama says "same-sex couples should be able to get married"

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Holy Diver, May 9, 2012.

  1. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    10,800
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    40,315
    Likes Received:
    19
    Ratings:
    +19 / 0 / -0

    Good move, compare to Romney who hired Grenell, then Bryan Fischer and his krewe of extreme christian right wingers who objected to that hiring, so Romney bowed.. then Fischer went on the airwaves complaining about how weak Romney was and if he bowed to him, how willl he stand up to Putin.
  3. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,253
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0

    Pretty brave move by Obama especially after North Carolina resoundingly embraced its bigoted roots and turned marriage into a special right owned solely by male/female couples.
  4. khayos

    khayos Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Messages:
    3,675
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Yup. Every time gay marriage comes up for a vote it loses. Now Obama has to pander to one part of his party, potentially angering another. Just another nail in his coffin.
  5. patsinthesnow

    patsinthesnow PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Messages:
    8,100
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    #87 Jersey

    I applaud Obama for coming out in favor of civil liberties and human rights on a controversial issue.

    Politically, it does two things. It'll rally liberals to be less ambivalent, and he pissed off anyone socially conservative, republican or democrat.
  6. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,253
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0

    Probably not. Anyone who is a single voter issue opposing gay marriage almost surely did not vote for Obama in the first place. I think the big obstacles for proponents of gay marriage is the fact that religious bigots are far more invested in the issue than are moderates, who don't seem to turn out to vote on the issue in large enough numbers to defeat the pinheads.
  7. khayos

    khayos Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Messages:
    3,675
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    North Carolina went for Obama... as did Virginia I think???
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,253
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0

    Well, yeah, that's why he was brave, but I think when it comes to the general election, there will be a larger turnout and at least some of the people who oppose gay marriage will still vote for Obama because they support whatever--healthcare, social security, immigration reform, etc.
    Last edited: May 9, 2012
  9. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    7,582
    Likes Received:
    14
    Ratings:
    +15 / 0 / -0

    Brave? No, brave would have been endorsing it before he thought it was politically safe to do so. I think this is a calculated move.

    I think he's been walking a tightrope with this for years and I think he was just trying to play both sides of the middle. The fact is he's been under pressure to let his actions do the talking for some time.


    The last part is what I mean. I think this is the realization he's come to. He can finally get away with it. Cynical? Yeah but there were a lot of us out there that have been critical of his punting the past several years. In any event, his endorsement whether it was a brave one or not is a step forward for gay rights.
  10. jcdavey

    jcdavey Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2007
    Messages:
    4,669
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    wow a president who believes in actual freedom, as opposed to the borg-like republicans who want to turn everyone christian lol
  11. jcdavey

    jcdavey Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2007
    Messages:
    4,669
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    personally i think he's going to rip romney a new ******* in the debates anyway and leave him a floundering pandering mess of a person
  12. Real World

    Real World Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2006
    Messages:
    26,287
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +26 / 0 / -1

    If he's brave now, then does that make him a wuss before, or simply the usual political BS'er?

    I just wish people would take positions they genuinely believe in, when it's not politically advantageous for them to do so. To me, that would be brave.

    I don't think anyone is surprised that he feels this way. I'm not, that's for sure. I find one of the more unfortunate things about politics, is that it forces people to have a position on issues that they either a) don't really care about one way or the other, or b) are best left to the general public to decide. Good for him for "coming out of the closet" so to speak (cheesy pun I know :D ), but please don't think "bravery" has anything to do with it. His revelation is entirely due to what's currently beneficial politically. That's the kind of change you can believe in. That is, politicians changing views, when election time rolls around.
  13. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,671
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    If I were Obama's adviser, I would be begging him to never mention this subject again until after November.
  14. jcdavey

    jcdavey Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2007
    Messages:
    4,669
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    well we know politics is basically bull**** anyway

    but at least he's on the logical side of all of this


    in the end, do you want to be free, or do you want everyone to be assimilated

    that's not what the US was built on


    not saying the US is good , i mean they were fleeing persecution, and turned into some of the top persecuting pieces of **** in the universe.....but , in the end, it's about freedom, or at least it should be
  15. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2007
    Messages:
    8,521
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0

    I did not have sexual relations with that woman. :singing:

    This is typical political expediency. That's it. I mean, I think he has been for it all along, and only said he wasn't when it wasn't political to do so. Now he's comes back to it to rejuvenate his base. I've no problem with his position (I'm actually for it to - yeah, even as a conservative), but the bottom line. Pick a position and stick with it. Have some CONVICTION, any at all will do.
  16. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ---- JAG ----- PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    36,492
    Likes Received:
    18
    Ratings:
    +24 / 1 / -0

    #87 Jersey


    anyone who believes in our Constitution should also believe it's about time Obama and everyone else gets on board ... we are supposed to be created as equals. I have no problem with religious people not believing in it or believing in it ... either way they have a right to their doctrine on religious grounds. I do have a problem with my government thinking some people are less equal than others.
    Last edited: May 9, 2012
  17. khayos

    khayos Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Messages:
    3,675
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    See... I always thought marriage was kind of a protected class. Man and woman coming together for the purpose of making a family. I still think that's the purpose. If it isn't, the state shouldn't have any part of it. Power of attorney/healthcare rights for all -- no additional tax breaks (discriminatory to single people) -- employers can decide who gets covered on their healthcare policies (and people can choose not to work there) -- and "marriage" is only a religious ceremoney.
  18. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,671
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    Agree with the red. You're certainly entitled to have your personal opinions as long as you're not in any position to affect the lives of other Americans. Strongly disagree with your last point, unless you remove tax advantages granted to employers for offering coverage to who they pick and choose to employ. It flies in the face of the CRA. Do you think a company should be able to refuse a job to a person because of race?
  19. khayos

    khayos Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Messages:
    3,675
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    How is homosexuality anything like race?
  20. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,253
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0

    Like race, homosexuality is not a choice. I very much doubt that your dad chose to be attracted to women.

    As far as your other point, marriage may once have been about family, but for many generations, elderly people, people who cannot have children, people who did want children, and people who had other motives to marry (for money or fame) got married. That said, I think many of us agree that ideally marriage rules should belong to the individual church, and not be something the state is involved in.
  21. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    Messages:
    14,486
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +17 / 0 / -1

    If that's the case shouldn't barren women, women who've gone through menopause, men who had mumps as children, women who've had their tubes tied, men with vascetomies, and any other physically sterile person be prohibited from marriage, too?
  22. khayos

    khayos Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Messages:
    3,675
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    But it's not a physically represented trait like race?

    Unless you're presuming that there's something inherent in appearance?

    What about liberal schools that don't hire conservatives -- isn't that closer in "discrimination"?
  23. khayos

    khayos Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Messages:
    3,675
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Not all women get breast cancer but most of them get screened; same with men and prostates. Just because there are exceptions doesn't define the rule.
  24. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2009
    Messages:
    14,486
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +17 / 0 / -1

    That's a really lame answer, khayos. There are probably far more infertile heterosexual couples who get married every day than there will ever be gay or lesbian couples doing so.
  25. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,253
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0

    Well, I do think there are many gays, just as there are many blacks, Hispanics, and whites, who you can identify by mannerisms, speaking inflection, and so on. Given the reality of society, many people in all cultures develop certain traits. I can certainly tell the difference between a WASP and someone of Italian descent, for instance, in most cases. But, of course, it is illegal to discriminate against ethnicity.

    Liberal schools hire conservatives and conservative schools hire liberals. Unless a school has a specific ideology (usually religious schools), I think most schools hire people based on competence. Part my childhood was spent in a very conservative town, and most of my teachers were conservative. A school should not discriminate based on political orientation, and I don't think that's usually the case. Just the reality is that more liberal go into the liberal arts, while more conservative go into business occupations.
  26. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    12,378
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +14 / 0 / -0

    Voting on civil rights is great! :americaflag:


    I'm skeptical this will have a dramatic impact either way.
  27. cupofjoe1962

    cupofjoe1962 Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    Messages:
    2,506
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    I believe that Obama appoved of this decision prior to the 2008 election.
    Even 4 years ago, there was less appoval of gay marriage than today.

    Time are changing and the research must have indicated that this would
    not hurt him in the swing states.

    I don't have a problem with this decision, but it does qualify as a
    FLIP FLOP !

    Although I am a NEOCON, I do NOT oppose gay marriage as long as I do not
    have to attend or pay for the wedding.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 9, 2012
  28. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2010
    Messages:
    12,378
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +14 / 0 / -0

    Dubious, since there's nothing in the laws regarding marriage that has to do with having a family


    Agreed, but if this is the argument for it, a lot of people on the right are holding highly inconsistent positions, given their supposed distaste for government trying to influence behavior.


    again, I agree, but the same people who most loudly oppose gay marriage would also oppose this idea as well, I bet (though down the road, when gay marriage is legal in most states, they'll probably change their minds)
  29. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    7,582
    Likes Received:
    14
    Ratings:
    +15 / 0 / -0

    Where was your "wow" reaction to this same democratic president that for years has publicly stated that he believes marriage was between one man and one woman? The fact is many democrats including a large percentage of black Christian democrats feel exactly that way. So lets get off our high moral horses here and stop pretending anyone not republican is this champion of freedom.....kinda like "I'm not really a universal freedom fighter, I just play one by not being a republican".

    Seriously though, as time goes on this won't be as much of an issue as it is now. Even republicans will realize that hardline anti-same sex marriage platforms will hurt even them at the polls....that and society is evolving anyway.
    Last edited: May 9, 2012
  30. jcdavey

    jcdavey Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2007
    Messages:
    4,669
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    he ain't perfect, but he's nowhere even near the same universe as that pandering fool romney

    not even ******* close

Share This Page