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Obama Russia Trip a "Breakthrough"

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatsFanInVa, Jul 11, 2009.

  1. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Joe Cirincione: An Obama Doctrine Emerges in Moscow

    Man, that big leftist Kissinger sure must be in the tank.
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Sure, he placated to a weaker nation. Belichick could have a "breakthrough" in relations with the Bills if they both promised to bench their starting QB on opening day.
  3. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You can placate a weaker nation, or you can pander to a weaker nation. You cannot "placate to" a weaker nation.

    Good thing we have a hard-nosed realist like you around, that big softie Kissinger thinks Obama actually has a grasp on world politics. Come to think of it, he's right.

    Look! Tap BFan's knee with a hammer, and about the same level of thought goes into the response!

    What you mean to say is that Obama is repairing the concept of American diplomacy worldwide.

    And as it happens -- whatever the hell drove Reagan to see the light -- he's continuing Reagan's work in this regard (which you'd know if you were either paying attention in the 80s, or simply read the article)

    Hey BFan... FAIL!

    Try again.

    PFnV
  4. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    Obama did very well, he got his arms reduction, permission to travel through Russian airspace, and a number of other things like a joint U.S. Russian committe to track nuclear weapons proliferation. ALL without giving into Russian demands that we abandon the implimentation of a radar station and missle defense in the Czek republic and Poland. Anyways i read this intervies with Kissinger in Der Spiegal last week its very interresting. I like the part where Kissanger says that major wars are no long practical because ther would be no winners. He really goes into some profound geopolitical thinking .


    SPIEGEL Interview with Henry Kissinger: 'Obama Is Like a Chess Player' - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

    Kissinger: Obama is like a chess player who is playing simultaneous chess and has opened his game with an unusual opening. Now he's got to play his hand as he plays his various counterparts. We haven't gotten beyond the opening game move yet. I have no quarrel with the opening move.

    SPIEGEL: But is what we have seen so far from him truly realpolitik?

    FROM THE MAGAZINE
    Find out how you can reprint this DER SPIEGEL article in your publication.
    Kissinger: It is also too early to say that. If what he wants to do is convey to the Islamic world that America has an open attitude to dialogue and is not determined on physical confrontation as its only strategy, then it can play a very useful role. If it were to be continued on the belief that every crisis can be managed by a philosophical speech, then he will run into Wilsonian problems.
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2009
  5. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    good for him......lets see where this goes........

    we've heard this kind of crap before
  6. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    I'm not sure I agree with that analysis. How is the continuation of nuclear arms reduction that has been going on in the US since the late 60s and in the USSR/Russia since the 80s any kind of breakthrough? Arms reduction was something the Russians needed more than us. There are also whispers that the admin is putting missile defense out as a carrot to get Russia involved in the Iran mess, which if true (A big if at this point, I know), fundamentally misunderstands the nuclear situation in a few ways; first it assumes the Russians are trustworthy, second, it assumes the Iranians will be trustworthy, and third, it assumes that even if 1 and 2 are correct, that there's nobody else out there to worry about acquiring and launching a nuke at us.

    We've seen time and again what we get by trying to play nice with the Russians, a whole lotta nuthin! Bush 43 fell into the same trap. Let's not forget we're dealing with a guy that stole Bob Kraft's superbowl ring!!!
  7. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    I think finding common ground with Rsussia makes a lot of sense. If we're going to get anywhere with the Iran's of the world Russia is necessary. How little play is the media giving that we are using Russian airspace to supply operations in Afghanistan?

    Russia and China are never going to be our grand old buddies. But finding common ground seems almost like "Duhhh" ... why not. Superpower cooperation is what is going to keep this planet spinning ... like it or not. You don't have to like them ... just respect is all that is necessary.
  8. alvinnf

    alvinnf Rookie

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    You must have missed the previous post. You don't find a common ground with Russia. You give something and you get something, that's how it works.
  9. efin98

    efin98 Rookie

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    The airspace was their give...nuclear reduction was US's give. In a few months or next year they will be back at the bargaining table again agreeing on something else "mutual", same old same old between the two.
  10. alvinnf

    alvinnf Rookie

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    No I know, It's just not some bold new horizon. I guess if you consider we have to worry about nuclear bombs in a suitcase or tankerships not warheads, we got a pretty good deal.
  11. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We're actually dealing with the sock-puppet of the guy who gangsta'd Kraft's ring, but that's splitting hairs.

    Relations went to hell under GW Bush, so w/START 1 expiring, GW did what he does best: let it go to hell and smiled as he thought of the next guy having to deal with it.

    US, Russia resume nuclear arms reduction talks - Yahoo! News

    Your puzzling assertion that Russia needs arms reduction more than the U.S. baffles me, quite frankly. I'd love to hear this one.
  12. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    Yes, I was going with Medvedev as Putin's mouthpiece.

    Bush didn't exactly just smile and leave it for the next guy, but negotiations stalled over US propagation of missile defense into central and eastern europe. I haven't heard any concessions on missile defense in this agreement but it may have been given unofficially. It would seem likely since the Obama admin is looking to pretty much scrap missile defense anyway, so that point was probably conceded. From there a new agreement is relatively straightforward, as Obama wants less nukes, and Russia does as well, because they are unable to effectively maintain the stockpiles they currently have. They know 1500 missiles are as good as 6000, but wouldn't voluntarily go to that level without the US doing so as well, even if they couldn't take care of a 6000 nuke arsenal. From that perspective they get what they want and most likely keep missile defense out of central europe. It was more a question of Bush and Obama admins seeing the value of missile defense differently that held up previous talks.

    Also don't forget that other agreements besides START1 were still in place through 2012. Even if it had been allowed to expire we weren't going to see a new arms race, too costly for no real gain.
  13. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    Looks like the US did agree to put missile defense on the table for this treaty:

    5. A provision on the interrelationship of strategic offensive and strategic defensive arms.

    The White House - Press Office - The Joint Understanding for The Start Follow On Treaty

    That flawed (IMO) decision is what led to the agreement on reduction. As well as for some reason agreeing to limit long range non-nuclear weapons, which I can't understand why the US would want to do.

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