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Obama Proposes Limits to Offshore Tax Havens

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by apple strudel, May 4, 2009.

  1. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/05/business/05tax.html?hp

    Rich people and corporations stuff money in overseas accounts to avoid paying taxes on it. By limiting this practice we could raise $210 billion in revenues over 10 years. So, that means over the last 10 years the American people have lost ~$210 billion in revenues thanks to rich people dodging their taxes, and forcing us to borrow money from overseas and run budget deficits. So why is it that the anti-stimulus people never bring this up when we talk about borrowing? We shouldn't have to borrow so much as it is, and there are solutions for that.
     
  2. Stokes

    Stokes In the Starting Line-Up

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    I like the idea of coupling restrictions on offshore investment with a drop in the corporate tax rate. That way we're collecting more revenue from companies trying to cheat the system while at the same time encouraging business investment here in the USA. One of those common sense compromises that makes way too much sense to actually happen!
     
  3. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    If people should pay taxes that they aren't then I'm certainly in favor of getting that fixed. However $21B a year ($210B over 10 years) isn't exactly the big fix to our problems. Again, if money that should be collected can be - without unintended negative consequences - great. But $210B over 10 years - that's 1/4 of Barack and Nancy's Spending Spree.
     
  4. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Tax law is very interesting, and will still be interesting without these offshore accounts. I took a seminar in it once. There are many ways that corporations legally hide earnings, use foreign subsidiaries, or virtually move losses into the past or future, in order to minimize taxes. Obama's changes will only make more money for the smart tax people to help paying customers find new loopholes, tricks, and pseudo-legit methods to hide profit.
     
  5. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So much for innocent until proven guilty:


    So foreign bank doesn't play ball with the US, YOU are presumed guilty and have to prove your innocence...
    Bye Bye constitution.
     
  6. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    It's funny (in a pathetic way), Liberals were not long ago saying "what has my country gone" over such issues as wire tapping and, now, Obama is moving the country to non recognition is far more serious and in a much faster way. It's mind boggling what he has done to this country.
     
  7. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No concerns about due process from the left on this one, after this is the government's money not your...
     
  8. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    On the face of it it sure looks like the wrong call. Unless it's allowed in other aspects of law then it'll surely be challenged and disallowed.
     
  9. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    I agree in principle with this idea. Too much hidden wealth keeps too much stress on those who play ball and just try to do their fair share. Nothing is sicker or more demoralizing than seeing the Bernie Madoffs and his wanna-be scam artists living high off the hog -- Kosher, in Bernie's case -- while the rest of us are being called "schleps" for not doing what they do. Whether it's individuals or corporations: pay your fair share, and get involved to make sure the waste in spending is eliminated.


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  10. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    A couple of points here.

    *Just cuz the gubmit tells you it's going to "raise" $210 Billion in "revenues" over the next 10 years, it doesn't mean that we missed out on $210 billion in the last 10 years.
    *$21 billion a year in possible lost "revenue" hasn't "forced us" to run budget deficits, and borrow money from overseas every year. Our problems are waaaaaaay beyond that, in both dollars, and policy.
    *I'm all for catching cheaters, but how about making the system as such, that people don't have to go overseas to avoid taxation. Obviously there will be a segment of the group that will cheat regardless. Like I said though, I'm all for catching cheats.
    *$21 billion is a lot of money, and it should be sought, but it's .005834% of the 2009 federal budget
    *Nice, when it comes to the gubmit and the cash it claims to have a right to rob from the citizens it works for, due process is secondary.
     
  11. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    You raise good points ... this is a "feel good" move by the O-man and his Dem hordes. But I'm still in favor of making it as difficult as possible for cheaters to scam the system. In for a penny, in for a pound.


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  12. DarrylS

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    Have to find out more info, but we have no power over the foreign banks.. How would you prosecute this stuff?? Do you have a suggestion to make this different??? Or maybe just do nothing..
     
  13. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    The U.S. has both legal power and also influence over foreign banks. The U.S. recently convinced at least one Swiss bank to reveal some names of their clients, along with some details of the accounts those individuals. The bank in question -- possibly UBS -- has branches in the U.S., so they need to comply if they want to continue doing business in the U.S. There are ways to have foreign registered banks work with the U.S. government, which is fine with me.



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  14. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    That's why there's a tilde in front of it. As in approximation, acknowledging an estimate/guess based purely on today's numbers.

    Nobody's claiming it solves all of our financial problems, but it lessens them to the tune of $21 billion a year.

    I'm not sure what specific alternative you're advocating for here.

    There is no claim that it is a panacea to our budget problems. But it helps.

    The presumption of guilt is a major red flag and I'm not sure why it's there. It obviously makes enforcement easier and would be a major deterrent, but is hugely unconstitutional. Like I said before, I think it goes away, but it's something to follow.
     
  15. patsfan13

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    They will go after the CITIZEN for the actions of the foreign bank. The citizen will be presumed guilty if the bank doens't cooperate with the IRS. The citizen will have to prove that he didn't know the foreign bank wasn't playing ball with the gov.

    Totally outrageous. Guilty until innocent is un american. I am sure that Obama court appointees won't have a problem with this outrage.

    BTW I have never had an overseas bank account.
     
  16. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    Neither have I, but I have been audited more than once. I disagree with the whole existence of the IRS, but if I have to prove my innocence during an audit, then companies should also insist on proof of proper practice of foreign banks before they use them. I have no problem with forcing companies to make sure you're doing business with a bank that is acting within the US law. I just wish the government was as open with their business practices as they expect all of us to be.
     
  17. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Do you honestly believe that the gubmit, on any level, is going to lessen your tax burden were it to be able to steal more from somebody else? The powers that be, will simply spend everything they've stolen from you (plus interest) while finding ways to use the new money, to "save the children!". Which is when they spew some diarea about building a new school, buying new books, putting more policemen on the streets, yada, yada, yada....

    This brings me back to something I learned when I first started paying attention to political issues. The gubmit never talks about spending less, or shrinking it's size. All it does is spend more, and more, while figuring out ways to "increase revenue".
     
  18. DarrylS

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    Slow the hysteria down, the citizen puts the money in the off shore account... how is the bank acting??? The bank does not act, the citizen commits the action when he puts the money in the secret off shore account.

    How else would you do it, as far as I know most off shore accounts are secret as are the swiss bank accounts..

    I do not agree with the dilution of due process, is there an alternative???.. don't say the honor system, there is no honor amongst big bankers..
     
  19. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    More hysteria, how many judges has Obama appointed 0????
     
  20. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams pfadmins PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Of course all this witch hunt is going to do, is drive More Corporations out of the US, and in the end LOWER the taxes paid to the US.

    Many large corporations have already moved out off the US since Hussien's election, and now many more will follow.
     

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