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Obama gets an A+ from me

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Jan 23, 2009.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Obama appears to be rolling out a version of liberalism that's relevant to today's needs and values. Consider the liberal moves that Obama has made in his first few days as President:

    - Made the government more transparent and accountable
    - Acknowledged nonbelievers in his inaugural address
    - Ended torture, not only by ordering the military to do so, but by ordering the CIA to follow the military rules for interrogation
    - Began the process of closing not only Gitmo, but various secret prisons as well
    - Appointed George Mitchell to pursue Israel-Palestine peace (Abraham Foxman, President of the ADL, complained that Mitchell is too fair and even handed a negotiator)
    - Stated his strong support for a women's right choose, not only as a matter of privacy (the moderate view on the issue), but as a matter of reproductive choice (the feminist view)

    He has a long way to go, of course, but so far he's reversing course for the dark age of right-wing paranoia and bigotry.
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wish I could share your confidence that this could be done...
  3. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey


    Not so fast Patters-He's left some wiggle room for the CIA. I think we'll see that the CIA will have more to work with than just the field manual. Some of these things may even be considered torture by some of you but these "enhanced" interogation methods will still be allowed....not waterbaording though.

    Gitmo will close but I think you'll still see a place separate from general prison poulations for some of these guys already detained and furure ones. I have to admit the symbolism of gitmo closing is a good political move though.
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2009
  4. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There will always have to be wiggle room with every issue. Obviously, we can all think of rare instances where torture might be necessary. (For instance, in time-critical situations where the suspect is absolutely refusing to provide information, torture might be a last resort. Most of us would support torturing a suspect to tell us where a nuke is that's set to go off in a few hours, if other methods of interrogation had failed.)
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2009
  5. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He's a "Con Man" and a damned good one, Gitmo will be open for long time, Barry will always have an excuse, he says what his groupies want to hear on Abortion, he could appoint God to talk to Israel/Palestine and it wouldn't do any good those animals will be killing each other until the end of time.

    What I am really trying to say is "Barack Hussein Obama Is Full Of Sh!t"

    America now has a Three Ring Circus running the country but we are "Politically Correct" the MTV Crowd and NBC are happy Kadafy & Castro both said they were very pleased that Obama won.
    PRAY FOR OUR COUNTRY AND NEVER FORGET 9/11

    OUR ENEMY TALKS ON THE PHONE AND MAKES PLANS TO SLAUGHTER OUR INNOCENT MEN WOMEN AND CHILDREN, WE AREN'T SUPPOSED TO LISTEN.

    GITMO IS A PRISON THE LOONS WANT IT CLOSED AND THE PRISONERS PUT IN ANOTHER PRISON---:confused:

    DEMOCRATS WANT GITMO CLOSED BECAUSE THE HATED BUSH OPENED IT

    AMERICA HAS GONE INSANE

    "oh martha did you hear president jug ears speech last night"
    "yes helen, my husband and I both fainted"

    The Presidents Aunt Is An Illegal Alien
  6. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Wow, Patters gives Obama an A+. What's next, Chrisy and Keith do the same ?

    He's already gotten upset about being asked a question by the press. He's sticking with a tax cheat to be the top tax collector.

    His people seem to be struggling already :

    Washington Times - CURL: Obama press aide gets bashed in debut

    He gets a C from me. Nothing to be ooohing and aahing about, that's for sure.
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Actually, that was a good little article. He has to straighten the media operation out, and I bet he will in a matter of days. Certainly, the way he has run his campaign and inauguration demonstrated an amazing ability to fix things quickly. Let's see if that continues.

    Oddly, the video did not support the story (unless I didn't play it loud enough), but rather just seemed to show Obama being friendly with the media.
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2009
  8. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I didn't watch the video, the story spoke loud enough.
  9. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Wow, Patters thinks Obama is worthy of an A+ so far. I haven't been this surprised since the sun rose in the east this morning.
  10. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    I'm not handing out grades during the first week, but so far he has come out swinging.

    lets also add to that list of positives:

    Pay freeze for WH employees making over 100k

    I just heard Tom hartman say that there were attacks on the Taliban last night...killing 10+
    (can't seem to confirm that, but.....he said he would do that)

    so far he is a man of his word.
  11. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I'm not sure why that's a positive, we want good people working for the President and the savings is meaningless; if it were all government employees so the savings would mean something then it's a valid debate. As it is this accomplishes nothing except making people less likely to want to work for (relatively) nothing.
  12. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    I see your point, to a point....Its setting an example, more than anything. Its certainly a positive, ANY peson taking a job with the administration usualy will have to take a pay-cut. If qualified people don't want the job because of the pay, then those are the EXACT kinds of people I don't want working at the white house.

    capiche?
  13. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    But how do you know they know the location? How sure are you that there really IS a plot to explode a nuke in a city? How about if the guy you captured doesn't know where the nuke is, but knows someone who does? What if the person who knows is a 12 year old boy or a pregnant woman? What if you torture someone and find out there was no nuke?

    Aren't these the kind of scenarios US intelligence was dealing with in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 when they used things like waterboarding on high level AQ captures? How can we say at the time whether it is justified or not? For me, I think you either have to say it is wrong and we'll never use it, or admit that the Bush admin was OK in its use of torture. All an Obama administration would do if they didn't outlaw it in any case would be to move the goalposts. This wouldn't regain the moral high ground for the US, only tell people around the world that we're still the same as them, you just have to push us a little further.

    My point is this, if you can envision a scenario (and you say you can) where torture might be necessary, how do you draw the lines? How do you prevent the emotional scars on the people that have to do the torture? What if you are wrong and there was no plot? What if people lied to create a panic? Now you've used an illegal method because it suited your needs. If its illegal its illegal. I support the rule of law and not of convenience. That is the principled stand, everything else, like what you outlined above is just semantics.
  14. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    Also the grade after 3 days is priceless Patters, just priceless.
  15. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    #37 Jersey

    C- so far.
  16. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Jersey Selected

    So far, all the public knows that he's done (public as in people that do not post here) is close a controversial prison in Cuba. He's done that and he's talked some more. I want to see more results. I want to see moves toward getting our toops out in 16 months.

    I'm not giving out a grade because it's WAY too soon. Ask me again a year from now.
  17. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Did he kill any women and children, or air raid a village in the process? I only mention that cuz it'll be interesting to see how the attacks will be portrayed by the media.
  18. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Wow, Stokes, where you been man?

    I think this is what the Admin was trying to do when this issue was being debated in congress. What is legal, allowable, or acceptable treatment, and what isn't. We all have a different idea of what is, or isn't torture, and probably even more disagreement on when we'd each be willing to cross the line, if ever at all. I'm opposed to torturing people, but supportive of coercive measures of interogation. Those being loud music, sleep deprivation, eating a Filet Mignon in front of a detainee, after he's had 9 straight days of tofu.
  19. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

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    Looks like no, I posted a link to the article about it.

    Alleged U.S. strikes in Pakistan kill 14 - Pakistan - msnbc.com
  20. STFarmy

    STFarmy Rookie

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    Those all sound too mean to me. I don't like anything that hurts people's feelings. We should ask them politely and then give them an uncomfortably long hug and see what they say. Cause nothing else has EVER worked.

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