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Obama Election - Forget What Was Said About PAC's in 2008

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by IcyPatriot, Feb 7, 2012.

  1. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Obama's In Control: No More Lobbyist Contributions To Democratic Party

    2008
    2012

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/07/u...yields-on-super-pacs.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all
    So ... in other words regardless of who wins the election this year ...
    expect the same old same old in the White House IMO ...
    the next President will be the same puppet we have come to expect.

    Keep up the hope but forget the change part. :bricks:
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2012
  2. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/07/u...yields-on-super-pacs.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2012
  3. Hamar

    Hamar In the Starting Line-Up

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    The sad thing about our election process is the fact that although we should as a people be responsible for the government that we elect that is not the case.

    I see so many posts that say something to the effect that we deserve who we elect. We do not!

    Yes, we vote, but our choices are pre-chosen. From the lower local levels and on up it is about who can be bought.

    I won't provide graphs or links or videos. This is how it is. You can believe it or not, it will not change anything.
     
  4. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree about the duplicity..

    But what is he supposed to do as the other party is making a killing off of Super PAC's?? To the point where they playing field is severely tilted if you do not..... any elected official now is beholding to the highest bidder.

    Campaign financing has to change.
     
  5. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey


    Exactly the point .................
     
  6. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

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    Don't blame Obama. Blame the Supreme Court.
     
  7. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Well duh. We already know Obama is never to blame.
     
  8. Drewski

    Drewski In the Starting Line-Up

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    I'm with seemingly everyone who has posted to this point on the subject. Obama is doing the "smart" thing, even though he did say he wouldn't.

    This isnt an issue with Obama, it is an issue with the system

    Ive said it before (a lot lately it seems)....

    Hate the game not the player.
     
  9. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

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    So you think it would be a smart tactic for Obama to unilaterally disarm and cede his opponents a massive financial advantage?

    Because, if not, this is merely concern trolling.
     
  10. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    What bothers me about the "don't hate the player, hate the game" line, is that it throws principle and your word out the window. Don't get me wrong, I understand why people dodge taxes themselves, while publically stating they think people should pay more, or why a politician says no lobbyists and super-pacs, only to hire lobbyists and super-pacs. At the same time, it's the fundamental "do as I say, not as I do" BS that we've become all to acustomed too. Whatever happened to sticking to you word, or leading by example? People have the right of choice. When you make a choice, it's yours first and foremost. So while I get why he's doing what he's doing (he knows he's no lock to be reelected, and needs all the help he can get), don't blame the game for reneging on your word. Just call it what it is. He's going against his previous word because he wants to be reelected.

    Ides of March PR. ;)
     
  11. Drewski

    Drewski In the Starting Line-Up

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    RW, I don't disagree with the point you are trying to make. As a person of "principle" myself it "sickens" me to say hate the game not the player....but that is the reality no?

    So, while campaigning, Obama makes the "no lobbyists/PACS". 4 years on, he realizes that if he lives by those words, his re-election is dead in the water. He (and any pol for that matter) would be dumb to, in the face of what his opponents are doing, not to utilize a tool that the system allows.

    Yes, he went back on his word. I fault him for that, even though I knew when he said it it was unrealistic to make that claim. But that is what politicians do, the make "outlandish" claims while attempting to get elected, only to have reality b*tch slap them in the face once they are in office.

    I hate our system (as it pertains to money in politics and taxes) and want them changed, for the better, once and for all. But absent of that happening, I have a hard time holding actions (such as going back on your word) against people for the plain and simple fact that the situation dictates that they "have" to.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2012
  12. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Clearly you can't read, nor comprehend the simple point that I made. Your response is merely "Real World posted something" trolling. ;)

    This is what I love about party politics. It's also why I'll never vote for a party, or against a party politician ever again. We all complain about today's politics, and it's FOS politicians. Yet, when it comes to our "joe", it ends up that we're the one's who are mostly FOS. Obama was supposed to be "different". You know, "change we can believe in". No this, no that, all kinds of transparency, etc. but guess what? In the end he's business as usual, just like everybody else is. Who cares though. When they reneg on promises, or do exactly what it is they said they'd never do, the sicophants are in here proclaiming how "smart" their joe is. Maybe it's not that they're smart. Maybe it's just that we're really stupid.
     
  13. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    I wasn't a big Obama fan ... wanted Hillary but whatever ... he was elected and

    I figured if anyone in my lifetime could make some major changes it would be him so I was 1/2 excited.

    But it's not happening ... and I don't see another like him on the horizon.

    It's to the point that I am not sure our election even matters anymore -

    seriously - different names, faces, colors, sexes ... it's not changing ... it will get worse not better.

    A black President with a lily white non diverse single minded Senate and a corrupt do nothing Congress!

    Be still my beating heart ... the poor man is a puppet.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2012
  14. Drewski

    Drewski In the Starting Line-Up

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    Icy, I share at least the last part of your sentiment in this post.

    The amount of money REQUIRED to run, let alone the amount of pressure coming from a small fraction of the general population; the "power elite" in this country if you will, nothing will ever change unless we demand our representatives to change and change the way the system works.

    Not one president can do it, as long as that person is still being "created" within that system. I'm not defending Obama (and my points previously directed at RW shouldnt be taken as defending him personally), but just pointing out that his claims and subsequently going back on them are not unique to him.

    As I said, pols can say what they want during a campaign, but once the reality of the situation becomes clear, those claims can, and often do, become unrealistic.

    The system is in dire need of an overhaul. Not in a "lets change the system to another form of government" sense, but in a details sense. I have been fortunate enough to see two other types of government first hand, this is the "best" IMHO. But we need to refine this "American Experiment in Democracy". We have been going for 236 years, many of which in uncharted territory, as honestly nothing like this (America) had ever been tried before.

    But we have reached a critical mass to be sure. The money in and of the system is the problem. A slight tweaking of the settings will return this great land to "ours" again, rather than "theirs". Obviously it wont be easy,but as they say, nothing worth doing is...
     
  15. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

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    Thank you for typing all of that while not answering the question.

    The fact remains that I'm pretty sure something relatively momentous occurred between 2008 and now that might have caused Obama to re-evaluate his position on the issue.

    But, by all means, it's terrific to be lectured to by people who don't and who never supported the president because they're feeling like he let them down. It's pretty telling when the complaints don't even revolve around his actions but on the process. You'd rather the president stick to his guns and cut off his nose to spite his face. I, on the other hand, don't blame him for playing within the rules of the game; rules that, if you hadn't noticed, have changed quite a bit of late.

    That all being said, the campaign finance laws in this country are complete garbage, and Citizen's United was an abomination of a SC decision. Messina even said that the president supports whatever measure necessary -- up to a Constitutional amendment -- to place reasonable limits on contributions. I'm frankly at a loss as to what more reasonable position he could have taken in this situation.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2012
  16. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I answered that a long time ago. Your mental inability to see beyond a posters name, as opposed to the content of one's post, probably got in the way.


    Yeah, his poll numbers.

    It's not a lecture pal. It's the truth.
     
  17. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    BTW, this isn't the first time Obama renegged on campaign financing promises. In 2008 he went the route that promised him the most money, just as he's doing now. To some it was "smart" then, just as it's "smart" now, and the rest is inconsequential. Just win baby.
     
  18. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

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    I'll happily admit I skimmed through your second post. So, to recap, you understand why he's doing it and you admit it's the smart thing to do for what he's trying to accomplish. You're just bent out of shape because he's reversing a decision he made a while back, when the rules of the game were completely different.

    That's a scathing critique if I've ever read one. Thankfully we have a president willing to acknowledge reality as it currently exists instead of fighting quixotic battles.

    Try Citizens United. His poll numbers aren't half bad at the moment.

    Yeah, well, I'm sure he's positively torn up over having lost your vote.
     
  19. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    He never had my vote. Niether did McLame, nor will Romney. Baaaaaa....

    Jack, I understand why the Patriots filmed other teams signals, why baseball players juiced, and what leads teams to hand out regrettable contracts. My understanding the why, doesn't necessarily mean I approve of their decisions, or would use the term "smart" to describe them. Furthermore, unlike you, I tend to hold people to their word, and accountable for what they say. Obama will have hundreds of millions, if not a billion dollars to spend regardless. He simply sees that he's no shoe in, and is selling his soul to help his reelection. Nothing more, nothing less. He's business as usual.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2012
  20. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    How much did the Obama campaign spend last election cycle?

    How much did McCain spend?

    How much did the Unions spend?

    Who did Wall Street contribute the most to? (Hint it was the biggest crony capitalist)


    Don't worry I don't expect an answer it is a rhetorical question.
     

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