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Obama can't bring deficit under control. Raising taxes is the only way

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by NEPatriot, Jan 6, 2010.

  1. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

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    Obama’s Promise to Cut Deficit Is Growing Harder to Keep - NYTimes.com

    So much for a broken promise! Obama voters MUST be disappointed!
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2010
  2. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

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    I agree, Obama is certainly stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    But let's not lose sight of the fact that his policies are responsible for a small fraction of the current budget deficit.
  3. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

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    A small fraction????? 2 T dollars for simulus and billion dollars for bailing out are not 'small'. When you throw ObamaCARE in it, it makes you feel dizzy.
  4. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

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    Well it's nice to know that, among other things, you know very little about economics.

    And, actually, if you bothered to pay attention, you'd understand that the health care reform legislation will reduce the deficit.
  5. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

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    No sh!t ! Who said it? Obama or you??? I would like to know how Obamacare reduces the deficit. How much would you like to see him raise taxes?????

    You better pray that Obama raises enough taxes to cover his expenses and reduce the deficit. Otherwise, JackBauer = Jackarse in this forum.
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2010
  6. ljuneau

    ljuneau Rookie

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    Anyone who claims that Obamacare will reduce the deficit is either a fool or a partisan hack. Even though they are fudging the numbers for the first 10 years by collecting 10 years of revenue, but only paying out 6 years of services, it still will not reduce the deficit. Obamacare fails at achieving it's initial goals - will increases the cost of healthcare, reduce quality of care, and still leave millions without insurance. Total failure.
  7. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Not only will it not reduce the deficit, all the costs are coming through new taxes so even if it did reduce the deficit it wouldn't be "healthcare reform" that reduced the deficit it would be tax increases that reduced it, but the amount of reduction would be lessened by the health care "reform".

    When all this started, one the the calling cards for health care reform was that it would save money (actual less costs, not through tax increases) due to the supposed cost of uninsured going to the emergency room. I still want to know why that turned into tax increases over $1T.

    I'll say it again, the only way to start real health care reform is to reduce the cost per unit of health care and this is not doing that.
  8. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

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    <golfclap>

    So when it comes to MMGW, the vast majority of credentialed scientists are either fools or partisan hacks.

    And when it comes to "Obamacare," the CBO and Center for Medicare and Medicaid services are either fools or partisan hacks.

    But then here we have you, who is clearly neither a fool nor a partisan hack (LOL!), who manages to pontificate on these complex subjects by drawing on your vast reservoir of knowledge and expertise.

    I'd ask you to provide some links to support the (false) claims you made, but you've already made it clear that you cannot be bothered to support your arguments. I suppose debating is easier when you're able to just make sh!t up out of whole cloth.
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2010
  9. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    #95 Jersey

    1) Unless congress controls spending, all the tax increases in the world won't reduce the deficit.
    2) If you think that Obamacare will reduce the deficit, you are dreaming. you need only look to past government projections on health care costs from the last big expansion of government healthcare with the introduction of Medicare in 1965 and projected costs..
    .
    >>http://www.cato.org/pubs/tbb/tbb-0309-17.pdf

    To enact Medicare in the 1960s, public officials
    deceived the public in numerous ways, such as promising
    that the payroll tax rate would not rise higher than 1
    percent.11 When Medicare Part A was enacted in 1965,
    costs were projected to rise to
    $9 billion by 1990, but
    actual costs reached $67 billion by 1990.12


    11 Sue A. Blevins, Medicare's Midlife Crisis (Washington: Cato
    Institute, 2001), pp. 53-63.
    12 Health care data from Peter G. Peterson, "Remember Cost
    Control," Newsweek, July 25, 1994.<<<<<<

    What should make this time any different?
  10. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

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    Because it's 50 years in the future, and budgetary scoring methodology (not to mention the skyrocketing cost of medical care) has gotten a lot more sophisticated in the interim? Plus, this bill isn't exactly similar in scope to Medicare and Medicaid.

    Look. It may be that this bill ends up not reducing the deficit. Pretty much every authority on the subject says that it will. Thus, I trust the CBO and the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services more than I trust the word of ljuneau and BF, who for all I know are merely parroting what they heard last night on Fox News or read on Michelle Malkin's blog. This is generally what goes down when you argue with people who start with a desired conclusion (read: Obama failure at all costs) and then flail wildly to find premises that support their preconceived conclusion. And when they can't, they just make things up, as seen above.
  11. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I trust CBO to give reasonable numbers for what they're asked for. They were asked to score it for 10 years of tax increases but with the payments not starting for 3 years. Thus, the numbers are crap. But they're accurate for what the CBO was asked to do.
  12. JackBauer

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    Oh really? When do the tax increases begin?
  13. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Source for this claim?
  14. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    There's a list of some of the tax/fee increases here :

    Tax increases abound in healthcare reform legislation - Managing Your Money

    There's longer ones elsewhere but since links aren't allowed that aren't slightly, or more, to the right, I'll post this link. There's no provisions to delay these taxes/fees, they'll be implemented ASAP. Gotta get that money rolling in.
  15. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

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    Behold the wisdom. Like a miniature Buddha, covered in hair:

  16. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    I think they're related some how.
  17. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

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    There are plenty of benefits that begin in 2010, and the only really significant tax -- the excise tax -- begins in 2013.
  18. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Believe what you want. Lots of stuff will cost us money = taxes.
  19. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

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    What are benefits in2010?
  20. JackBauer

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    Not really. But if that's what you think, fine.

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