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NSA intercepts far exceed limits set by congress

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by apple strudel, Apr 16, 2009.

  1. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/16/us/16nsa.html?_r=1&hp
    So much for the rule of law, so much for privacy, so much for due process. This is pretty much all about a powerful government claiming more power. The republicans really screwed us by implementing this, and Obama is seriously screwing us by not gutting it.

    No, there's no potential for abuse there. Sorry, it was an accident guys, I swear!

    How do we excuse this nonsense any longer? Oh yeah, the al qaeda bogeyman.
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2009
  2. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Just curious: what are you so worried the NSA will hear you say????



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  3. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    if some NSA guy wants to jack-off while my GF tells me what she wants to do to me, more power to him.........other than that, nothing I say on the phone will pique their interest in any way........

    its like a speed trap.........everybody has to drive through it....but only the speeders need to worry
  4. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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  5. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    You know Apple (and you may be surprised by this) I kind of agree with you here. While I think we have good evidence that our intelligence capabilities at home and abroad were insufficient prior to 9/11, it seems like allowing secret programs lends itself to abuse of those programs. I think we've seen it with coercive interrogation, and now with wiretaps (whether accidental or not). The problem as I see it is that the government allowing the rules to be broken in certain cases encourages the people doing the work (interrogators/guards or wiretap monitors) to abuse the system beyond the ground rules the gov't tries to lay out.

    I think we need to come up with ways to make intelligence gathering more efficient without just bypassing established regulations put in place to prevent the very abuses/mistakes we've seen. The old system wasn't good enough, but the new one creates new problems as it solves old ones.

    And tanked, come on, I hate speed traps and electronic monitoring of the roads! If the cops want to give me a speeding ticket, they should have to catch me fair and square!
  6. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    Socialistic things.
  7. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    1) It's none of their business. 2) There's no need for them to know it. 3) The potential for abuse is vast. Think listening to your political opponents. Think business interests. It is all about concentrating power.

    Edit: just because you and your girlfriend are OK giving up your rights doesn't mean I am. I expect a right to privacy. Especially since there's no reason for anybody to listen to my calls since I'm pretty much a working, tax-paying citizen.

    You guys need to re-read 1984. Thought crime and all.
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2009
  8. STFarmy

    STFarmy Rookie

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    I'm with you and Stokes here. While I think 1984 is referenced way too much by people in situations where they are simply trying to discredit someone with a differing political POV, this is too eerily reminiscent for sure. I don't think it means that we're headed there anytime soon, but we need to stay vigilant against overly authoritarian and fascistic practices, because you do NOT want them creeping into our society.
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2009
  9. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    You may be right, it's a bit lazy, but I think that it's relevant to reference 1984 in this case for a few reasons.

    1) Big Brother spied on its own citizens.
    2) 1984 and much of Orwell's writings are based on his personal experiance with totalitarian regimes in countries like Burma.

    We should have a thread on Orwell. He was an awesome socialist and fought with POUM in the Spanish Civil War.
  10. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    People really need to start putting all these events together ,open their eyes and see not just the events themselves but the trend those events blatantly show. You'd have to be deaf,dumb and blind not to see where we're going, that or in utter and total denial.

    It's not even a partisan issue. People also really need to stop spending all their time on mainstream media headlines and other fluff, and start paying attention to the "in other news" sections. Meanwhile while you were out,45 new laws were passed...
  11. STFarmy

    STFarmy Rookie

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    I agree AS, it's true that it's applicable in this case. I like Orwell's take on the dark side of what society could become.

    I think they are waking up, at least, I hope so. As long as people remain PEACEFUL (the key) in their dissent, I'll be very, very happy that people start thinking more about how our gov't works, and how it should work -- for us.
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2009
  12. Leave No Doubt

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    Peaceful is the Key,and any protester should always have a plan B in case their peaceful protest gets disrupted,either deliberately or not. It's obviously not going to take much for this govt to unleash the hounds so to speak. Our country's extremely well-prepared to handle rebels without hesitation. Ugly,very ugly.
  13. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    With this administration you'll get job offers. Nice cushy "government" jobs. You should be loving this.


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  14. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    well then......its your problem and I don't care

    there's no need for them to take as much money from me as they do, but that doesn't stop them........and since you're a taxpayer, there's every reason for them to listen to you.........you may not like it, but they have their reasons

    you can expect whatever you want, but its your own tough luck if you don't get it...........besides, I can always throw the eavesdropper a curve by speaking in Lithuanian......or Russian.......or German......or Japanese.......at least make 'em work a little harder to figure out what I said
  15. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    Are you kidding me? This is beyond absurd. You've just justified totalitarianism as well, because they have their mystical and secret reasons. :ugh:

    What is that Franklin quote that the NRA guys throw around? Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither.

    How is this any different?

    And yeah, our government couldn't possibly record and translate a Lithuanian conversation. Come on.
  16. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    So Obama is being "transparent" with Bush Administration memo's on "torture", but meanwhile his DOJ is spying on more Americans than ever before. Nice.

    Meet the new people, same as the old people.

    As for domestic spying, there has to be a limit, or checks and balances in place. I don't have a problem with the gubmit listening in on calls that are connected, or could be connected, to man created disasterer's. However, it has to be done within the law, and with the C&B's of a judge. Blank check survelience and eaves dropping is a nono. It is a different world, with (electronic) communication being what it is today, versus what it was 200+ years ago. I think this is a case where the gubmit (surprise, surprise) was given an inch by the public, and it decided it would take a mile. I'm ok with the idea of listening in on the bad guys, but blanket wiretapping, with any C&B's, is not something I approve of.
  17. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    I absolutely agree with you that it shouldn't be allowed. I don't see how it's not un-constitutional.

    But I disagree that it's a case where the people gave the government an inch. This may be semantics, but the government took the 9/11 opportunity to sell the people on something that would make them safer and the people, full of fear and confusion, trusted the government. Oops. It was opportunism with an eye towards expansion of power. Next catastrophe and we'll see similar.
  18. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    ummmm......right.......the government now controls the finances(banks) and the manufacturing(auto industry) in this country........I wouldn't sweat the eaves dropping
  19. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    Yeah, you just totally deflected. Stick to the arguments. By form, you suggested that eavesdropping is not an issue because there are other large issue. But there are hundreds of large issues. That's equivalent to saying don't worry about banning guns because of the health care crisis. :confused:
  20. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    what argument? I told you I don't care, so there is no argument, but in your hysteria, you keep carrying on, so I just told you to worry about something more importand

    not deflecting at all.........but feel free to keep pushing

    in fact, some of the technology I work on probably goes into the stuff they use, so more power to them
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2009

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