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Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Mrs.PatsFanInVa, Dec 21, 2012.

  1. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What the hell was that all about? "Meaningful dialogue," my butt.

    That NRA "press conference," where they refused to take questions and instead spoke for 20 minutes about how the answer to bad guys with guns is good guys with guns was nothing short of a 20 minute commercial for the NRA.

    Their answer to us, the people, 62% of whom have agreed that there needs to be a ban on assault weapons and tighter prerequistes to gun ownership, was to support a national data base of mentally ill people, get rid of video games and arm school personnel and build bullet proof schools.

    Poll: Majority support assault weapons ban - The Hill's Ballot Box

    PR, in particular, how do you feel about Wayne Lapierre calling for armed police or security guards in each and every school? How do you feel about this being the NRAs only response to the escalating gun violence in our schools?

    Personally, I think Mr. Lapierre was so out of touch with what the majority of American people wanted to hear that he just handed the gun control groups a giant Christmas present.
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Here is the right wing whackos on the Board of Directors If you want to know how they operate...

    Lots of familiar whacko righties here..

  3. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Rookie

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    not suprised by the NRA's stance....they're a bunch of whack jobs
  4. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    Maybe they should leave 2A advocacy to the grown ups...
  5. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    I doubt his mental health, hollywood and video games talk was anything more than a deflection. I wonder if he has any clue how phony his proposal looked? He is like a dictator who's underlings tell him everything he wants to hear. He's completely out of touch with the mood of the nation after this tragedy.

    I do agree we need a comprehensive approach that includes some of his proposal but he needs to understand that some gun restrictions are necessary. That said any talk of banning all guns is absolutely the wrong thing to be pushing. That kind of talk is just as crazy as having armed guards in every single school and gives the NRA a talking point to go of on a atngent with.
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2012
  6. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    100% agree. Putting aside the constitutional arguments, just the notion has put more guns, ammunition, and accessories into circulation in the last week than in the last three months combined.

    In any event, they're idiots. Whatever they really think, they've done a bang-up job of showing that they care more about the guns than they do the victims.
  7. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    For those of you wondering where Code Pink has been..

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2012
  8. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    Unfortunately, Code Pink is feeding right into the NRA's hands. I know they mean well but I think they come across as a little nuts to a lot of people. The NRA may use this to try and portray anyone that is critical of them as Code Pink types and therefore cannot be taken seriously
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2012
  9. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    Pretty close to what I was going to say. If the NRA is one side of the moron-advocate coin, then Code Pink is the other. There's a reason they frequently occupy the same playing field.
  10. PatsFanLisa

    PatsFanLisa Rookie

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    I don't think anyone is calling for a complete ban of guns, as someone here mentioned. The call is for high-powered automatic assault weapons. There is no need for anyone in this country, other than military personnel and police, to privately own such a weapon.

    The reality is that they do, and there's never going to be a way to get them to give them up.

    And the other reality is that the NRA is nothing more than a whore for the gun manufacturers, bought and paid for. The refusal to answer questions or compromise is typical of conservatives who like to blame everything on progressive liberals.

    Now, the fact that to arm every school in this country with a police officer eight hours a day, 180 days a year, would cost well in excess of $3 BILLION DOLLARS, when we can't even get Boehner to budge one inch on a compromise to tax the ultra wealthy, perhaps we should just charge them to put police in schools.

    That's sarcasm, people. But with truth underlying it.

    LaPierre is a parrot. It took a week for him to come out with a useless statement that offered no significant suggestion, advice, or compromise, and in which he was incapable of answering a question.
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2012
  11. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Think about what Wayne Lapierre is calling for - in the names of the victims and compare it to what the families of the victims are saying:

    [​IMG]

    My name is Natalie Barden and I wanted to tell the president that only police officers and the military should get guns. If people want to do it as a sport than they could go to a shooting range and the guns would not be able to leave there."

    There's a middle ground here, people, and that's where we've got to meet.
  12. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    It's not just that....the idea that an armed guard can stop mass casualities from some nut case carrying a high powered semi-automatic, large load carrying gun is kind of ludicrous when you think about what happened at Fort Hood, isn't it?
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2012
  13. PatsFanLisa

    PatsFanLisa Rookie

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    Without a doubt.
  14. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    This is actually the problem. What kind of weapons? What is high-powered? What is an "assault weapon"?

    Other than on the street or from Latin America, it's very difficult to get an automatic weapon now, as they are very highly restricted. Someone would need to obtain and maintain a Class 3 license to own such weapons.

    I just had a funny thought. Many of the same people who were begged to understand gay marriage are now in the position of begging people to take the time to understand firearms. Oh, the irony...

    To be fair, Fort Hood was in a gun-free zone of the base. And, as wacky as it sounds, it's not all that an unfair fight in tight quarters between a semi-auto pistol and a semi-auto rifle. One could make an argument for the pistol being the advantageous weapon. The training is the thing. One untrained asshat with an AK will probably be killed by a trained shooter with a .22, all else being equal.

    The difference is in a wider urban setting or outdoors within 100 yards (for most people). Outside of 100 yards, most people couldn't hit a man-sized target with a precision sniper rifle, let alone an AR-15.

    Anyway, enough of that...I still think we're trying to treat symptoms here. We've got to get to the point where we're willing to examine the human element in all of this. But that's for another thread (which we already have).

    This thread is about the NRA, and their incompetence, possibly callousness, in responding to this issue.
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2012
  15. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Not having guns in schools is the same principal as not having them on planes, not arming correctional officers in cell blocks or detention centers. etc. And is based on the premise that there are no guns available, thus no harm.

    Consider some high school and some whacked out kids feel challenged to want to take out a security guard.. and they do so, and they get the gun.

    There are too many variables to do this and many teachers would feel just as uncomfortable with that answer... are you going to walk the kids home with armed guards.

    The NRA is just a mouthpiece for the weapons industry.. and they are all intertwined with the military folks and congress..
  16. DarrylS

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    Even Michael Steele can see something is wrong..

  17. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    Well, your analogy almost works, but there are Federal Air Marshals on flights. The whole point of that is that targeting the person with the gun becomes an impossible task. It COULD work on the school level, and while I'm not sure it needs to happen everyday, I wouldn't mind seeing random days where a police officer is present. That happened in my school in the upper-middle class section of Chesapeake, VA. A few officers randomly made the rounds to different schools.

    If we're going to address the symptom, the thing you DON'T want is a zone that is so gun-free that when some random wacko walks in with a gun, he rules the roost until either he runs out of ammo, gets bored and/or kills himself, or, 10-20 minutes later when the police arrive.
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2012
  18. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    I do too, and it begins on the human level. The underlying problem in a lot of corners of America is that we don't take care of our own, be they mentally ill, poor, veterans, or disabled. We're reaping the benefits of our own moral dereliction, and I'm not talking about some religious morality, but just plain old human morality.
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2012
  19. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    That's true....but the scenerio could be much the same in a large school. Our high school here is composed of several buildings, all connected....say the "armed guard" is at the front door at Building 1 and the shooter somehow gets in through a window in the library in Building 3 - how long does it take the armed guard to get there and how many kids die before he does?

    What about day care centers? And college campuses? And after school centers? Sunday Schools?

    The whole idea is preposterous.

    I also loved the irony of The NRA calling for a National Registry of Mentally Ill People with no call for background checks on everyone buying a gun. What the hell good would having your name in the registry do if the person selling you the gun isn't required to check for it?
  20. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    Good point, and certainly, an armed guard is not a miracle pill. However, I'd be willing to be he'd be responding much faster than the local PD.

    Yep, it really is time to discuss these kinds of things. Like I alluded to earlier, the NRA apparently lacks the brain power to wrap their minds around these kinds of things.
  21. DarrylS

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    There are federal air marshals on random flights who are highly trained, but the underlying assumption is that there are no guns on board.. we do not know who they are.

    There was an armed police officer in Columbine, Virginia Tech has its own police force...

    It is about the guns.. more guns will not make a difference, only invite more violenct..
  22. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    and Ft. Hood was a military base............................more cowbells.
  23. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    As I've said now several times over the various threads, "arming the schools", etc. is not the cure to the problem. It has a use, but stopping or at least decreasing the frequency of these attacks requires a more sophisticated approach.

    More guns may not make a difference necessarily, but neither you or I can know for sure. The Israelis see a benefit to having a few extra armed security personnel around. Of course, we don't have that kind of security angst here. In any event, the gun control measures being proposed aren't going to help either. You don't erase 360 million guns with a stroke of a pen.
  24. Hebeill

    Hebeill Rookie

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    Wayne also said this:

    ''The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun,''

    To which i say ...been there done that, it was called the Wild West. Every body was armed, but then civilization took over.
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2012
  25. RI Patriots fan

    RI Patriots fan Rookie

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    You make it sound like Michael Steele speaks for real conservatives. Hint...he doesn't.
  26. RI Patriots fan

    RI Patriots fan Rookie

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    With all this talk of “The Wild West”, I thought it might be informative to look at the reality of crime in the “wild west” cattle towns and compare them to the peaceful streets of such eastern, gun-control paradises as DC, New York, Baltimore and
    Newark.

    In his book, Frontier Violence: Another Look, author W. Eugene Hollon, provides us with these astonishing facts:

    •In Abilene, Ellsworth, Wichita, Dodge City, and
    Caldwell, for the years from 1870 to 1885, there were only 45 total homicides. This equates to a rate of approximately 1 murder per 100,000 residents per year.
    •In Abilene, supposedly one of the wildest of the cow towns, not a single person was killed in 1869 or 1870.

    Zooming forward over a century to 2007, a quick look at Uniform Crime Report statistics shows us the following regarding the aforementioned gun control “paradise” cities of the east:

    •DC – 183 Murders (31 per 100,000 residents)
    • New York – 494 Murders (6 per 100,000 residents)
    • Baltimore – 281 Murders (45 per 100,000 residents)
    • Newark – 104 Murders (37 per 100,000 residents)


    It doesn’t take an advanced degree in statistics to see that a return to “wild west” levels of violent crime would be a huge improvement for the residents of these cities.

    The truth of the matter is that the “wild west” wasn’t wild at all … not compared to a Saturday night in Newark.


    Dispelling the myth of 'The Wild West' - Minneapolis gun rights | Examiner.com
  27. Hamar

    Hamar Rookie

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    But you think you do, right? Anyone that does not agree with you and your views 100% can not be a conservative... There is a name for that.
  28. Hamar

    Hamar Rookie

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    The NRA used to be an incredible organization. It used to be foremost an advocate of gun safety and respecting the deadly power that a gun can represent. Kids used to take their rifles to school with them so that they could participate in NRA classes after school.

    Now, the NRA is a political and money machine. They are parasites on our political system just as most of our politicians are. Money, power, money, power and so on.

    Either get rid of guns or embrace them the way Sweden has. You can not have one side advocating a gun in every home and another saying that guns must go. It does not work that way, obviously.

    Oh well, they know they can not really get rid of guns so the senate goes after video games in an attempt to appease the masses. Just more BS hearings where our elected millionaires find ways to make more money from the lobbyists. Go America!!!
  29. RI Patriots fan

    RI Patriots fan Rookie

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    I think there is, in fact, a conservative agenda just like there is a progressive agenda. There are many conservatives who don't think that Michael Steele represents them. That's not a new thing.
  30. Hamar

    Hamar Rookie

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    The problem is that you see the world as conservative or progressive. I hope you are either really young or really old.

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