Now I know why the Patriots lost...

[upstater1]

here we go. Dungy is now a freak. lets see, a "Jesus Freak" maybe??

of course you have no agenda, upstater1.

again, another "Christian" saying someone who gives praise to God in any situation is a freak.

look, I know there are some off the wall people like Falwell and Roberstson.
But, as a Christian, if you have a problem with a guy like Tony Dungy, of all people, you have some serious questions to ask, not of Dungy, but of yourself.

And before you or others call me "judgemental", remember, it was you that started this, and it was you that "judged" Tony Dungy, without revealing until much later oh-im-christian-too- so-its ok.

you can call yourself all you want. But I would hope the church you go to would welcome a man like Tony Dungy with open arms.

I;ve explained it to you multiple times, but you don't get it. Here's one last try: I have no problem with him praising God, or saying God wanted a Christian man to win, or anything to that effect. I have a problem with his answer to THIS question: "Tony, how is your win a big moment in American social history?"

"...Not only are Lovie and I the first African American coaches but we're also Christian coaches."

Um, so why is it a significant moment in American history that a Christian coach won the Super Bowl? Explain.

Lastly, I never said that I'm-a-Christian-so-it's-ok. You claimed I had an agenda. I interpreted that to mean you thought I was a hater from another religion. That's why I said deep into this thread that I'm Christian.

My agenda is clear: I have a problem with people that think it was some milestone for a Christian coach to win the Super Bowl. Why is that significant? I don't get it. For me, he's clearly got something against people of other faiths and persuasions, and as a christian, I don't like it.

And since we're being suspicious about myself and my agendas, let me say that the facetious ethnic bait I tossed up there isn't what offended you at all. That was just a smokescreen. You were offended because I was mocking Dungy's attempt to invoke the breakthrough event of Christian football coaches in American history.

 

[3 to be 4]

I;ve explained it to you multiple times, but you don't get it. Here's one last try: I have no problem with him praising God, or saying God wanted a Christian man to win, or anything to that effect. I have a problem with his answer to THIS question: "Tony, how is your win a big moment in American social history?"

"...Not only are Lovie and I the first African American coaches but we're also Christian coaches."

Um, so why is it a significant moment in American history that a Christian coach won the Super Bowl? Explain.

Lastly, I never said that I'm-a-Christian-so-it's-ok. You claimed I had an agenda. I interpreted that to mean you thought I was a hater from another religion. That's why I said deep into this thread that I'm Christian.

My agenda is clear: I have a problem with people that think it was some milestone for a Christian coach to win the Super Bowl. Why is that significant? I don't get it. For me, he's clearly got something against people of other faiths and persuasions, and as a christian, I don't like it.

And since we're being suspicious about myself and my agendas, let me say that the facetious ethnic bait I tossed up there isn't what offended you at all. That was just a smokescreen. You were offended because I was mocking Dungy's attempt to invoke the breakthrough event of Christian football coaches in American history.

mgteich was the one who objected to your failed attempt at ethnic wit.

I never denied being put off by your mocking of a Christian man giving thanks to his Lord.

His milestone point isnt nearly as sinister as you would, for some reason, like to believe. You left out the part when he talked about proving how it was possible to win, doing things the right way, meaning, and i am not quoting him, just what my interpretation of what he was saying, that you can win by not yelling and screaming at people, by trying to honor the Lord by how you treat people on the job etc etc...

if you choose to get all offended by this, by all means, do so. It IS possible to advocate your beliefs without it being some slight on someone else.

And for the life of me, i dont understansd, and you never answered the point, of how if you yourself are a Christian, why a man like Tony Dungy, who almost all people, whether Christian or not, look up to as a good and decent man and honorable man, is such a problem for you.

 

[upstater1]

mgteich was the one who objected to your failed attempt at ethnic wit.

I never denied being put off by your mocking of a Christian man giving thanks to his Lord.

His milestone point isnt nearly as sinister as you would, for some reason, like to believe. You left out the part when he talked about proving how it was possible to win, doing things the right way, meaning, and i am not quoting him, just what my interpretation of what he was saying, that you can win by not yelling and screaming at people, by trying to honor the Lord by how you treat people on the job etc etc...

if you choose to get all offended by this, by all means, do so. It IS possible to advocate your beliefs without it being some slight on someone else.

And for the life of me, i dont understansd, and you never answered the point, of how if you yourself are a Christian, why a man like Tony Dungy, who almost all people, whether Christian or not, look up to as a good and decent man and honorable man, is such a problem for you.

Because Christians don't have a monopoly on doing things the right way. I guess he was knocking all the coaches before him who yelled at their players and were hard on them and who were some how defective in terms of their relationship to Christ.

 

[3 to be 4]

Because Christians don't have a monopoly on doing things the right way. I guess he was knocking all the coaches before him who yelled at their players and were hard on them and who were some how defective in terms of their relationship to Christ.

He was? Or are you putting those exact words in his mouth?

 

[upstater1]

He was? Or are you putting those exact words in his mouth?

No, it's clear that's what he meant. The Christian way is the better way. That's what he was saying.

 

[PatrioticDynasty]

No, it's clear that's what he meant. The Christian way is the better way. That's what he was saying.

Ok, First off; We all know that talk of Race, Religion, Creed, and Politics are to not be discussed on this board, and I am a little disappointed of the statements written here, albeit that both a religious and Racial statement was made by a HC after SB41. I believe emotions were high and there was a lot of talk about Race leading into the game BEFORE the outcome, so in the coaches mind I am assuming that the race comment was acceptable since it was talked about in every aspect of the media for 2 weeks.

Secondly, The religious aspect is part of the American culture, take out a dollar bill and look at the back and tell me what it says, It doesn't proclaim ANY specific deity, or religion, which is why our fore fathers left England in the first place. What Tony said is ok by law, it may not sit well with everyone but that is what makes this country great. We can say how we FEEL without repercussions or fear of torture or imprisonment for what we said in Public.

Trying to interpret what Tony said is your choice, but you can not force feed your interpretation on others at the expense of insulting others and making yourself appear ignorant.

Please all ( Including Moderator) Nothing good or Intellectual can come from Ridicule of someone's Race, Religion, Creed or Politics.

That is just my opinion.......

PD

 

[RayClay]

In this country, a Christian person can inappropriately inject his religious beliefs into a non religious event.

That's just the way it is. Better to leave it alone.

But again, more than anything, I've said it before, Lovie Smith and I, not only the first two African-Americans, but Christian coaches, showing that you can win doing it the Lord's way. We're more proud of that.

Of course this begs the question, as opposed to what?

http://newsbusters.org/node/10619

 

[upstater1]

Ok, First off; We all know that talk of Race, Religion, Creed, and Politics are to not be discussed on this board, and I am a little disappointed of the statements written here, albeit that both a religious and Racial statement was made by a HC after SB41. I believe emotions were high and there was a lot of talk about Race leading into the game BEFORE the outcome, so in the coaches mind I am assuming that the race comment was acceptable since it was talked about in every aspect of the media for 2 weeks.

Secondly, The religious aspect is part of the American culture, take out a dollar bill and look at the back and tell me what it says, It doesn't proclaim ANY specific deity, or religion, which is why our fore fathers left England in the first place. What Tony said is ok by law, it may not sit well with everyone but that is what makes this country great. We can say how we FEEL without repercussions or fear of torture or imprisonment for what we said in Public.

Trying to interpret what Tony said is your choice, but you can not force feed your interpretation on others at the expense of insulting others and making yourself appear ignorant.

Please all ( Including Moderator) Nothing good or Intellectual can come from Ridicule of someone's Race, Religion, Creed or Politics.

That is just my opinion.......

PD

I was trying to force my opinion? Please get off your high horse. The only ones who are ignorant are those who don't understand what sarcasm is.

You write: "What Tony said is ok by law, it may not sit well with everyone but that is what makes this country great. We can say how we FEEL without repercussions or fear of torture or imprisonment for what we said in Public."

But I don't have the right to question him. Got it.

 

[PatrioticDynasty]

I was trying to force my opinion? Please get off your high horse. The only ones who are ignorant are those who don't understand what sarcasm is.

You write: "What Tony said is ok by law, it may not sit well with everyone but that is what makes this country great. We can say how we FEEL without repercussions or fear of torture or imprisonment for what we said in Public."

But I don't have the right to question him. Got it.

you have the right to question him, but not on this board and NOT WITH A STATMENT LIKE:

No, it's clear that's what he meant. The Christian way is the better way. That's what he was saying.[/QUOTE] see the RED text, can you just step back and see the red text only, that is an ignorant statement, because there is no way in HELL you KNOW what Tony meant. and that IS NOT what he said, period.
I am not on any damn high horse either, I was only trying to write my opinion without referencing RACE - RELIGION - CREED or POLITICS....you try doing that when the F`ING THREAD IS TOTOALLY ABOUT THAT!

Don't crap on me when you insult me and others with your racial comments

Geeez...

High horse.....what a bunch of sh!t....

How about no more of the 3 R's in threads eh? Ride that one for a while......

PD

 

[upstater1]

you have the right to question him, but not on this board and NOT WITH A STATMENT LIKE:

No, it's clear that's what he meant. The Christian way is the better way. That's what he was saying.[/QUOTE] see the RED text, can you just step back and see the red text only, that is an ignorant statement, because there is no way in HELL you KNOW what Tony meant. and that IS NOT what he said, period.
I am not on any damn high horse either, I was only trying to write my opinion without referencing RACE - RELIGION - CREED or POLITICS....you try doing that when the F`ING THREAD IS TOTOALLY ABOUT THAT!

Don't crap on me when you insult me and others with your racial comments

Geeez...

High horse.....what a bunch of sh!t....

How about no more of the 3 R's in threads eh? Ride that one for a while......

PD

You have a real problem, friend. Becuase you got on here and started crapping on me. You have a thin skin, too, because you dish it out but can't take it. There are plenty of reasonable people on this thread that understood exactly what I meant, and no one here has offered an alternative understanding of Dungy's words. He repeatedly has said he and Lovie did it the right way, and then in the next breath he talks about their being christian coaches. You tell me, what the hell is he talking about?

Next, what racial comments are you referring to? Dude, get off your high horse.

 

[PatrioticDynasty]

you have the right to question him, but not on this board and NOT WITH A STATMENT LIKE:


You have a real problem, friend. Becuase you got on here and started crapping on me. You have a thin skin, too, because you dish it out but can't take it. There are plenty of reasonable people on this thread that understood exactly what I meant, and no one here has offered an alternative understanding of Dungy's words. He repeatedly has said he and Lovie did it the right way, and then in the next breath he talks about their being christian coaches. You tell me, what the hell is he talking about?

Next, what racial comments are you referring to? Dude, get off your high horse.

first of all I'm not your friend, second of all YOU have the problem, we all know what racial comment he made..hey you are good at reading peoples thoughts and you know what I must have meant? right? did you even read my first post? he was very emotional after the game, Tony is a very religeious guy... so what, do you really think he was trying to piss everyone off whith what he said? why not get mad about the 2 african americans comment? why not 2 hispanic coaches? or asian? or whatever? I don't care, but you should not make ignorant comments about Religeion period, joking or not on a sports message board...I'm tired of this pissing contest.......so go to Hell... hows that? did you think I was going to say that? did you think that is what I really meant to say?...sounds stupid doesn't it...

 

[upstater1]

first of all I'm not your friend, second of all YOU have the problem, we all know what racial comment he made..hey you are good at reading peoples thoughts and you know what I must have meant? right? did you even read my first post? he was very emotional after the game, Tony is a very religeious guy... so what, do you really think he was trying to piss everyone off whith what he said? why not get mad about the 2 african americans comment? why not 2 hispanic coaches? or asian? or whatever? I don't care, but you should not make ignorant comments about Religeion period, joking or not on a sports message board...I'm tired of this pissing contest.......so go to Hell... hows that? did you think I was going to say that? did you think that is what I really meant to say?...sounds stupid doesn't it...

I didn't make a racial comment. not at all. A lot of people here have understood that fact. The people who don't know how to read haven't.

When someone asks, how is this an important moment in social history? Then it's entirely appropriate to reference the fact that he's the first African-American to win a Super Bowl. That IS indeed an event in history. He was an African-American coach. When Norm Chow or Wayne Fontes win a Super Bowl, then they too can celebrate their accomplishment. But that's entirely different from pointing out the social impact of having a Christian coach win it, especially when they comment is girded with this idea that he did it "the right way." "With dignity and class." As opposed to whom?

As for your other gibberish, grow up.

 

[PatrioticDynasty]

I didn't make a racial comment. not at all. A lot of people here have understood that fact. The people who don't know how to read haven't.

Ok you say you didn't make a racial comment....so why type this:

The Bears were done before they walked on the field: Mushin Muhammad? Are you kidding me? A turbanhead touching the Lombardi trophy? God would barf if he saw that?.

what the HELL do you call that? you even went back to edit it, but several posters who know how to read quoted your original statement.

so please explain that to me... because I can't read? and that is not a childish statement either right?

Look, you started the taboo thread, not I...what did you expect, that I come out and say "yeah you are right man! that is exactly what he meant to say"

I can admit when I am wrong, and I have, Why is it easier for you to insult me rather than own up to your mistake?

just don't type threads about that stuff, stick to the Pats man, If Tony said what you originally wrote he would have had bricks thrown at him and you know it, so why write it?

It wasn't funny at all. It pi$$ed me off as well as a number of other posters....

PD

 

[upstater1]

Ok you say you didn't make a racial comment....so why type this:


what the HELL do you call that? you even went back to edit it, but several posters who know how to read quoted your original statement.

so please explain that to me... because I can't read? and that is not a childish statement either right?

Look, you started the taboo thread, not I...what did you expect, that I come out and say "yeah you are right man! that is exactly what he meant to say"

I can admit when I am wrong, and I have, Why is it easier for you to insult me rather than own up to your mistake?

just don't type threads about that stuff, stick to the Pats man, If Tony said what you originally wrote he would have had bricks thrown at him and you know it, so why write it?

It wasn't funny at all. It pi$$ed me off as well as a number of other posters....

PD

And many other posters understood completely that I was being facetious. It was only yourself, 3x4, and mgteich that freaked about it. I explained it to Patjew and he understood where I was coming from. Like I said, I'm thinking you guys are mostly pissed that I'm calling on Dungy for mentioning the oh so marvelous feat of a Christian coach winning the Super Bowl. I don't buy this argument that you're offended by turbanhead, because I was clearly being ironic. I think the stuff I've written in this thread addressing that slur preecisely pretty much explains why I used that.

 

[PatrioticDynasty]

And many other posters understood completely that I was being facetious. It was only yourself, 3x4, and mgteich that freaked about it. I explained it to Patjew and he understood where I was coming from. Like I said, I'm thinking you guys are mostly pissed that I'm calling on Dungy for mentioning the oh so marvelous feat of a Christian coach winning the Super Bowl. I don't buy this argument that you're offended by turbanhead, because I was clearly being ironic. I think the stuff I've written in this thread addressing that slur preecisely pretty much explains why I used that.

sdo it's ok to say Turbonhead because your being ironic? where is the irony in your statement, why did you edit it and take it out if you truly belive it was fine? Isn't mgteich a moderator? why not take what he said seriously then, it was aninsult to Religion and Race.

Calm down, mgteich. I was being sarcastic. I don't even know what your argument is. I'm implying that his faith is as important to him as race? Wha? Maybe but I don't even know how and what the significance is. What the hell does that mean?

For the record, this wasn't a colorful joke. I was being facetious, and I've said a lot worse to my students, who are comfortable with my teaching methods, and also bright enough to understand sarcasm and facetious speech when they hear it, like a lot of people on this thread...

And are you also to have us belive as a teacher you make similar comments to your students and they are ok with that? Iwould think you would be fired as well...

No, I don't like racist jokes either, and this clearly wasn't one, so get off my back and maybe kick your dog instead.

It was a racist joke, and a religieous joke...as for the dog part? where did that come from? are you an animal abuser as well as a racist and a Religion-hater? No, you are probably far from it, and your intentions were not to be harmful, I understand that...But you wrote them, and by defending them there can be no other conclusion than you are those things...and it scares me to think you actually teach our children your misguided ethics...

Admit your mistake, appologize to mgteich and the rest of us and be done with it......

PD

 

[upstater1]

sdo it's ok to say Turbonhead because your being ironic?

Yes, of course, since I am a turbanhead. I don't mind either if a non-turbanhead uses it to be ironic, because the use of irory is quite powerful (and funny) in most situations.

where is the irony in your statement, why did you edit it and take it out if you truly belive it was fine?

Because three of you got angry and I realized my point about Dungy could still be made without it.

Isn't mgteich a moderator? why not take what he said seriously then, it was aninsult to Religion and Race.

Because it wasn't an insult to religion and race.

And are you also to have us belive as a teacher you make similar comments to your students and they are ok with that? Iwould think you would be fired as well...

No, my students are smart enough to realize the context in which I say and teach things. We can read Huck Finn and Kathy Acker and use the C... word and ask questions about how she's using it. I have had parents write to complain, but in almost every case I explained to them why we use these words in class, and they're perfectly fine with it. Fired? nope.

It was a racist joke, and a religieous joke...as for the dog part? where did that come from? are you an animal abuser as well as a racist and a Religion-hater?

Yes, I am. And an axe-murderer, and every single awful thing you can think of! I'm coming to get you. I'm the boogeyman. Boogaloolooo, I say, in my Porky's-corpse-rising-from-the-cemetery voice.

Go have a beer.

 

[PatrioticDynasty]

Yes, of course, since I am a turbanhead. I don't mind either if a non-turbanhead uses it to be ironic, because the use of irory is quite powerful (and funny) in most situations..

but not on a Pats message board agreed? I'm not sure about the first part of this staement, I don't know too many people of middle eastern desent who would be ok with that staement...Irony is funny in most situations yes, not with religion and race, come on, don't sell me or anyone else that snake oil

Because three of you got angry and I realized my point about Dungy could still be made without it...

but by pulling that line out you only made yourself look guilty...

Because it wasn't an insult to religion and race

isin't this in total contradiction to your first statement above? You practically admit it, and even though it may not bother you it bothers me as well as many others...

No, my students are smart enough to realize the context in which I say and teach things. We can read Huck Finn and Kathy Acker and use the C... word and ask questions about how she's using it. I have had parents write to complain, but in almost every case I explained to them why we use these words in class, and they're perfectly fine with it. Fired? nope.

perfectly fine with it.....The C... word, are you Nutz! If my daughter came home and said that word I don't think I would be fine with it....so IF you teach your class other slurs like the N word because you are teaching them about the slave trade and the kids go home and say that, is that OK? I don't think so...

Yes, I am. And an axe-murderer, and every single awful thing you can think of! I'm coming to get you. I'm the boogeyman. Boogaloolooo, I say, in my Porky's-corpse-rising-from-the-cemetery voice.

Go have a beer.

using humor in this context is a denial response, you still won't own up to what you said, and didn't you tell me earlier to grow up...and giberish? your hypocritical sophomoric reply only acquiesce my last post...


PD.

 

[upstater1]

but not on a Pats message board agreed? I'm not sure about the first part of this staement, I don't know too many people of middle eastern desent who would be ok with that staement...Irony is funny in most situations yes, not with religion and race, come on, don't sell me or anyone else that snake oil

Why are religion and race sacred cows? As for a Pats message board, this is in reference to Dungy and the Super Bowl.

but by pulling that line out you only made yourself look guilty...

Yeah, but I thought what's the point in offending some of you people. I've always defended what I said, i just didn't want you people getting on my case. That's not guilt. That's called trying to end the controversy, but I'll be damned if I let people like you call me a racist, especially after the situations I've been involved with in my life.

isin't this in total contradiction to your first statement above? You practically admit it, and even though it may not bother you it bothers me as well as many others...

No, it's not a contradiction. Not at all. When I see Borat rail with his anti-Smeitic comments, in Hebrew no less, I don't go away thinking that Sascha Cohen is anti-Semite, and Borat says a lot more vile things than I have. Well guess what, his movie was the top grossing movie in the US. You're still telling me it's inappropriate for someone to take about race and religion facetiously? Because apparently, most of America disagrees with you, as Borat proves.

The C... word, are you Nutz! If my daughter came home and said that word I don't think I would be fine with it....so IF you teach your class other slurs like the N word because you are teaching them about the slave trade and the kids go home and say that, is that OK? I don't think so...

Have you ever read Huck Finn? The word is tossed around. Some of the books I teach use that word and much worse. These books are indeed targetted by certain groups and blacklisted, but I thibnk a lot of teachers stand by the teaching of even offensive material.

using humor in this context is a denial response, you still won't own up to what you said, and didn't you tell me earlier to grow up...and giberish? your hypocritical sophomoric reply only acquiesce my last post...

Is this English? maybe you should take my class.

 

[3 to be 4]

Yes, of course, since I am a turbanhead. I don't mind either if a non-turbanhead uses it to be ironic, because the use of irory is quite powerful (and funny) in most situations.



Because three of you got angry and I realized my point about Dungy could still be made without it.



Because it wasn't an insult to religion and race.





No, my students are smart enough to realize the context in which I say and teach things. We can read Huck Finn and Kathy Acker and use the C... word and ask questions about how she's using it. I have had parents write to complain, but in almost every case I explained to them why we use these words in class, and they're perfectly fine with it. Fired? nope.



Yes, I am. And an axe-murderer, and every single awful thing you can think of! I'm coming to get you. I'm the boogeyman. Boogaloolooo, I say, in my Porky's-corpse-rising-from-the-cemetery voice.

Go have a beer.

i think you are basically playing head games upstater1. For one thing, nobody "freaked" out about what you said. It was YOU who freaked out enough about what Dungy said to start a post about it.
Secondly, you earlier said you were a Christian yourself. Then you continue to go after another Christian like Dungy with a passion, without ever mentioning anything about what you, yourself believe. Now we have another "late-inning" surprise, as you are now calling yourself a "turbanhead".

So whats next? Are you going to be Jewish later?

And that stuff at the end? I dont even believe you are a teacher.

What is your real agenda? Because im convinced you are just throwing stuff against the wall and seeing what will stick at this point.

most likely you are a 17 kid having a good laugh.

 

[PatrioticDynasty]

Why are religion and race sacred cows? As for a Pats message board, this is in reference to Dungy and the Super Bowl..

sure,by al means talk about it, but why make a Racist and Religieous joke? just plain stupid

Yeah, but I thought what's the point in offending some of you people. I've always defended what I said, i just didn't want you people getting on my case. That's not guilt. That's called trying to end the controversy, but I'll be damned if I let people like you call me a racist, especially after the situations I've been involved with in my life.

What's with the "YOU PEOPLE" reference? if you keep defending what you wrote then you ARE a racist and a religion hater.

No, it's not a contradiction. Not at all. When I see Borat rail with his anti-Smeitic comments, in Hebrew no less, I don't go away thinking that Sascha Cohen is anti-Semite, and Borat says a lot more vile things than I have. Well guess what, his movie was the top grossing movie in the US. You're still telling me it's inappropriate for someone to take about race and religion facetiously? Because apparently, most of America disagrees with you, as Borat proves..

we are not talking about a movie here, trying to change the subject proves my point, you are still defending your racisim and religious hatred...we are talking about YOUR poor attempt at a joke, which was not funny to sevaral people, not just the 3 aforementioned.[/QUOTE]

Have you ever read Huck Finn? The word is tossed around. Some of the books I teach use that word and much worse. These books are indeed targetted by certain groups and blacklisted, but I thibnk a lot of teachers stand by the teaching of even offensive material.

sure I have, but don't you remember, you told me I can't read? so therfore I am just as illiterate as certain groups you speak off right?

Is this English? maybe you should take my class.

only if i want to be Racist and a Religous hater...