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NOW I buy the "Washington's pre-season role shows he's staying" argument

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Fencer, Aug 27, 2007.

  1. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    Washington, who also has played on special teams, was the lone wideout when the team lined up in its power package

    http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2007/08/27/picking_up_the_pace/

    Sounds like it's not just generically running with the first team, but also being THE guy in a particular package.

    Or would Moss get that job if healthy? Not for his blocking skills, but because he'd force two defenders to go with him for fear of a quick jump ball?

    Hmm. If I were defending Moss in a true goal-line situation, I don't think I'd put two guys on him. Rather, I'd have a Vrabel/Thomas kind of linebacker line up over him and try to knock him backwards. On the other hand, if the field were longer, that same tactic might be a quite unacceptable risk.
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2007
  2. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

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    You can also add the fact that both Moss and Gaffney are hurt, and with Gaffney we don't know for how long.

    I've been a strong believer that the Pats will keep 6 WRs and start the year with both Brown and Jackson on the PUP. I also believe that barring a rash of injuries at the WR position, Jackson will end up on IR around week 6. By then some kind of injury will allow the Pats to reactivate Brown for his final season.
  3. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I saw him out there on a couple of the short yardage situations. He may make the roster but it isn't like he is tearing it up. On special teams every now and then you see his number but he is usally not near the play and as a WR he has caught a few ball mostly against 2nd or 3rd string defenses.

    If Gaffney is banged up then I have no problem adding him to the mix. I see him a notch below Gaffney and Caldwell as a receiver.

    Things are looking pretty good when we are debating the quality of our 5th and 6th WRs, a far cry from last year.
  4. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Washington has definitely flashed athleticism to me. All things being equal I'd keep him over Caldwell. However if Moss and Gaffney are both not expected to be ready for week 1 I could see them going with Caldwell instead to ensure we have a viable WR pair for the early weeks. Hopefully Moss practices this week.
  5. SeanBruschi54

    SeanBruschi54 Rookie

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    And theres the question in itself.

    Is Washingtons athleticism better than Reche experience?

    I honestly dont believe ive seen enough of Kelley to say that it does.
  6. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    How bout this question:

    Why do the Pats need an experienced 5th WR?

    Those 10-12 catches over 16 games too much for a youngster to handle? It is unfair to Caldwell since he might have a more meaningful role on another team. Assuming Washington isn't worthless on ST, I think he gets half a season to show his potential. If he flames out, replace him with CJ and/or Troy off of PUP. If he works out, keep him around and try to work out a realistic contract beyond this year.
  7. SeanBruschi54

    SeanBruschi54 Rookie

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    Injuires.

    Moss, Stallworth, Gaffney, Brown and Jackson.
  8. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    Precisely. It isn't as if it is a sure thing that NE's top 2 are seeing the field every week. If anything, it is more of a sure thing that one of, if no both, Donte and Randy will miss 4-6 weeks this year. NE's WR corps gets bad in a real hurry if Washington is a starter on the outside.

    That said, if Washington has been playing ST, I can see how that would help his cause, particularly if he is the second best blocking WR on the team.
  9. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    Neither of these things are true, but, um...okay.
  10. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Can't read your mind. Which part don't you like?

    "I saw him out there on a couple of the short yardage situations. He may make the roster but it isn't like he is tearing it up. On special teams every now and then you see his number but he is usally not near the play and as a WR he has caught a few ball mostly against 2nd or 3rd string defenses."
  11. AirForcePatFan

    AirForcePatFan Rookie

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    I like Washington, he's been pretty reliable so far... Without looking at stats, it seems to me he has been able to catch more balls than Stallworth... Either Brady is throwing the ball off when throwing to Stallworth or Washington just has better hands either way, that's the impression I've gotten so far...
  12. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    Well, Caldwell's been running with the two's for most of T.C./pre-season and Washington has been starting of late. This is not subtle and yet many here seem to be gleaning something from it that I am not. What am I missing?
  13. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I've liked this pickup from the onset, he has the height.. comes from great receiver programs tenn 7 Cincinatti.. is mature.. playing for the money.
  14. Lloyd_Christmas

    Lloyd_Christmas I can delete my own crap! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I am anxious to see what they do at WR as far as the roster spots go.

    In no particular order:

    Moss
    Stallworth
    Welker
    Gaffney
    Brown
    Caldwell
    Washington

    You know they won't keep 7 Wrs and even 6 is a lot. One of those 7 guys is not going to be on the roster. If it were me, I probably would ask Brown to retire (although I know that may not be popular). With Gaffney hurt, is he still a sure thing on the roster? With Moss and Gaffney hurt, do we want to keep caldwell around? I think so. On the other hand, Washington has looked good.

    This is tough!
  15. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Mike Richardson was our "starting" nickel/slot CB. Does that mean Merriweather has dropped to a back up at the nickel/slot spot? The Pats ran seven straight times to start the game. I have a feeling Belichick was trying a few things like getting the rust off Maroney and potentially seeing what Washington's run blocking abilities are.

    It seems to me that Belichick didn't approach Friday's game like a typical third preseason game.
  16. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't think it's so hard. Troy Brown should be put on the regular season PUP list. An injury settlement should be negotiated with Gaffney. We would then have 5 WR's on the roster, 2 on the PUP list (Brown and Jackson) and perhaps one more on the Practice Squad.

    Moss will be ready whenever, we don't know when. I am fine playing Stallworth, Caldwell, Welker and Washington until then. We also have Watson and Rivers as receivers, as we wait for Kyle Brady.


  17. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Brown will likely start the season on the PUP. Come week six, we will see from there where we are with injuries and how the other back ups are doing. I don't think Brown will be cut or retire though.
  18. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    I think we both know that there's a difference between Mike Richardson starting at nickel and Kelley Washington starting and playing a lot of the game at one of the two starting WR spots. As for Belichick not approaching Friday's game in typical 3rd preseason game mode...I disagree. I kind of thought it was a text-book example of a 3rd pre-season game.

    What do you mean?
  19. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I mean that the Pats came out clearly to establish the running game and didn't care to pass it at all. Typically, you approach the third preseason game as if it was a real game in a lot of respects. The Pats were determined to establish the run and get the rust off of Maroney no matter if drives failed or not. They didn't even try to hide it to the Panthers. I have never seen the Pats or for that matter any other team approach a third preseason game like that on offense.

    Most of the time, teams script a first drive to score points and get a rhythm going in both the passing and running game. McDaniels scripted a drive to get Maroney going even if the drive failed. You didn't think it was odd that the Pats just kept on running the ball in most of the first two drives eventhough they went three and out on the first drive? The Pats run 9 straight times before Brady threw his first pass.

    Also, Washington started and played when the Pats had no intention to throw the ball. They may have been testing his blocking skills outside which he hasn't had a chance to see since he played the slot most of the preseason. When they started to throw the ball, they rotated both Caldwell and Washington.

    Washington may have surpassed Caldwell or maybe Belichick was just testing Washington's blocking ability, but one thing is pretty certain in my eyes is that Belichick was approaching this game different than other third games. Maybe I am the only one who saw it this way, but I did think the Pats were far more interested in getting Maroney going early and test the shoulder than trying to get the offense as a whole going. I can't remember seeing that in a third preseason game.
  20. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    I seriously doubt any of us missed the fact that we started out wanting to get Maroney a bunch of action. But something I also didn't miss was the fact that Washington kept on playing, and Caldwell saw more action later with the (other) 2's and 3's.
  21. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Caldwell played with the first unit since one of his receptions we thrown by Brady. After the first two drives (where Maroney ran for most of the plays) they started to rotate Caldwell in with Washington. I didn't see Caldwell play at all with the third stringers other than two plays. Both Caldwell's and Washington's night pretty much ended around the same time. Washington's night ended on the last drive in the third and Caldwell's ended on the first drive in the fourth. I think you are overstating it a bit.
  22. sieglo

    sieglo Rookie

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    Washington can't hold Caldwell's jock.
  23. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If he could it would add to his versatility and may help him gain a roster spot.
  24. Metaphors

    Metaphors Rookie

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    The depth chart is made up of players who can actually take the field. Troy and CJ aren't on the depth chart and who knows what Gaffney's status is. Take them away and Caldwell is likely the 4th WR, which is a dramatically different situation from a #5. I've been saying all along that the Pats will keep 5 WR and Caldwell/Gaffney are in a battle for the #4 spot. The loser gets cut and looks for a better opportunity elsewhere. Considering Caldwell is 27 and Gaffney is 26, I'm sure they would appreciate being cut over rotting on the bench in their contract year.

    I would expect the 5th WR, 4th RB and 3rd TE to all contribute on special teams. Evans certainly isn't the best option the Pats could come up with as a RB, but his play on multiple ST units keeps him on the team. I think it is the same consideration for the 5th WR and 3rd TE spots. I don't know who is getting it done on ST for those spots, but I bet they will be on the roster on Sunday.

    I figure there are about 36 roster spots needed to field an offense and defense that can cover the various formations (4 wide, jumbo package, nickel, dime, etc.) and effectively manage an injury to any position. Add the 3 specialists and you have 6 gameday actives left, including the above mentioned 5th WR, 4th RB and 3rd TE. These 6 are the core STers (Izzo, Woods, Evans, Andrews, etc.). If you keep a veteran, non-ST 5th WR...then one of those ST aces has to go, or at least be inactive. Who are you going to cut/sit so that Caldwell/Gaffney can have great seats while waiting for Moss to pull up lame?
  25. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The decision is with us again. gaffney practiced today.
  26. DaBruinz

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    Really? Because that is what MOST people who have reviewed the tape have said. Washington's made a few catches and been in on STs plays, but has not been the 1st player on the seen. As I stated yesterday, from my previous viewings, he looked to be the 4th to 6th person in on the coverages. That's not good when he's supposed to be a gunner.

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