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Not U.S.-born... just the U.S. president?!?!?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatsFanInVa, Aug 12, 2008.

  1. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    After all the wailing and keening I hear from the right wing about "thabiasedlibrulmedia," it's interesting the things we DON'T hear a peep about regarding John McCain.

    For example, I've been treated to speculation about whether Obama's American enough to be president, because he had vacations on Hawaii (where he has family,) or because his father is Kenyan. I hear the Fox-ites say his middle name a good couple dozen times per "news" hour... we worry about whether he is "safe" and whether a potato-pound is a "terrorist fist jab."

    How many of us know that McCain's middle name is Sidney (no, really, Sidney), that he flip-flopped from Episcopalian to Baptist, or that he was not born in the United States? Yah you got it right. He was born in the Panama Canal Zone -- leased land, not owned.

    This is how it appears in the NYT online - God only knows if it ever hit print. Squashed, I would imagine, by the right-wing media:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/us/politics/28mccain.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

    Pretty funny that I haven't seen this on Fox, MSNBC, the real networks, or of course, these pathetic blogs.

    Hey Lou Dobbsians, where's the outrage?!?!?!? How are you going to trust a guy born in Panama on immigration?

    Why does McCain hate Episcopalianism anyway?

    Since he spent most of his childhood anywhere but America (Navy kid,) how could he have any real connection with the American people?

    Why are the networks silent on these important questions? :rolleyes:

    Now: imagine that the networks were abuzz with this utter tripe.

    You would have their putatively "fawning" coverage of Obama.

    So I don't ever want to hear a wrong-winger whine ever again about thalibrulmedia or I'll freaking rip your spine out wrap it around your neck and strangle you with it figuratively of course because I'm a peace freak.

    Respeck*

    PFnV

    * any similarilty between this closing and the Ali G show is purely coincidental. Big up yourself.
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2008
  2. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ~~~Out of Order~~~ PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    That story has been around for a while.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23415028/

    from 1998 ... http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/campaigns/junkie/archive/junkie070998.htm

    http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/how_can_panamanian-born_mccain_be_elected_president.html
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2008
  3. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sounds like "it depends what the meaning of 'as' is". As in, "shall be considered as a natural born citizen," not "shall be considered a natural born citizen," or "is defined as a natural born citizen."

    But I understand what you're saying, he's just a reverse "anchor-baby." Just as you can come to the US, deliver a baby, and be a bouncing baby U.S. natural-born citizen, you can leave the country, have the baby elsewhere, and whereas he would have claim to call himself Panamanian if he so desired, he chose to call himself American.

    According to the Times story, however, the constitutional issue is not definitively settled by your website. I doubt there would be a constitutional challenge were he to be elected, but it would tickle me.

    But to the point; You cite an article from 1997, and we have this Times article from 2007... but where is the constant bleating coverage of these subjects like we see on Obama's middle name, "terrorist fist-jab," father's nationality/religion, etc.?

    What we have (assuming the courts agree, in McCain's case,) is two Americans... yet somehow we have leave to question the patriotism of the one born here rather than the one born abroad. We question the "American-ness" of a guy going to Hawaii where he has family, but not a guy spending his youth almost exclusively on military bases abroad.

    It's this loaded set of expectations that underpins damediuh. Because the right is so rabidly jingoistic, they "take their half," (i.e. the assumptions loaded in favor of the right,) and then whine and cry if there is insufficient bleating about one subject or another deleterious to Obama.

    Again, the subject here is really the myth of "thalibrulmediah", that old stalking horse of cryptofascists everywhere.

    It's old hat to you, you say, that McCain is foreign-born. I learned about this today -- I have seen stories day after day about Obama's religion, his middle name, his early upbringing, whether he attended a madrassah, blah blah blah. Why is this reserved for one candidate only? Answer: because there is a built in subjective bias to worship the military on the part of the media. Nothing more than rooting for the home team; they all do it.

    But it's deleterious to objective observation.

    PFnV
  4. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Oh by the way, this from your support link:

  5. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Honestly, it takes a special kind of (fill in the blank) to consider someone not eligible to be President because he were born out of their country because his Dad was serving in the military overseas.

    Where's the throw up emoticon ???
  6. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ~~~Out of Order~~~ PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Last edited: Aug 12, 2008
  7. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah everything is reducible to "because it was connected to the military."

    News flash: connection to the military does not change every law and every situation. Connection to the military does not immediately equal gold-plated and God-annointed.

    Do I thank guys in the services? Hell yes. Do you just say "because his dad was in the military" and make the issues raised go away? Hell no.

    Why are the media not abuzz with this crap? Why are we constantly seeing these frivolous stories on how "American" Obama is or is not?

    Why do the media focus on questions of race, questions of his father's nationality, questions of his religion... and then we're treated to the bleating of wrong-wingers who must repeat in unison "wahhhhh he gets positive coverage nobody asks the tough questions dalibrulmediah has a crush..."

    The media is not touching McCain's questionable aspects with a 10-foot pole. There is a question of the constitutionality of his run. They won't touch it. There is a question of his motives for becoming a baptist, if we use the yardstick of media coverage applied to Obama. There is the question of what they hell his parents were thinking when they called him Sidney -- to use the same yardstick.

    McCain was not born in the United States. I am not shocked by this fact. I am shocked that I only heard about this fact today, and I watch a lot of news, and read the paper every day... the LIBERAL paper, or so I hear.

    And I'm the only one who thinks he got a pass on this?

    Screw you, I'm voting for the guy from America!

    PFnV
  8. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    There is no issue. He was born there because his country told his father to be there. End of story. You're acting like McCain killed someone and is trying to get away with it because he Dad was in the military.

    You are some kind of wretched, partisan cretin.
  9. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    This issue already had it's day in the media, and the concensus is that McLame is legally eligible.
  10. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ~~~Out of Order~~~ PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey


    [​IMG]
  11. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Actually, it didn't have its day in the media. It showed up on a couple of websites. I wonder if it will show up during the post-convention run, but I doubt it. Obama doesn't campaign like that, and the so-called "mainstream media" (i.e., the objective media) don't fixate quite so much as the Republican network on such minutiae.

    To repeat: the subject here is the free pass McCain gets as compared with Obama in the media.

    The secondary subject is the idiotic lockstep critique of the media as "liberal", when in point of fact, they are no such thing.

    It's out there, and it was raised most recently in February 2008. Yet there is no avalanche of psuedo-"coverage" about the subject.

    Belichick Fan, you're a twit. If it's an issue where a guy's dad is from, it's an issue where you were born. If it's an issue that your middle name is Hussein, it's an issue that your middle name is Sidney. If it's an issue that people think you might be Muslim but you're Christian, it's an issue that you for some reason rejected the Episcopalian church, didn't bother saying anything for a few years, and then surfaced as a Baptist.

    If I'm "The anti-Fox", I ask: Why did he reject the Episcopal church? Is McCain anti-Epsiscopal? Was it born of... political convenience?

    If I'm "The anti-Fox," I ask: Is he really eligible to be president, since he was not native-born? The whole question is whether he is "considered as native born" for the purposes of the presidency.

    All this points to the simple fact that the Republican network, and even the real networks, gobble up these sorts of scare questions about Obama, without a second thought to parallel issues surrounding McCain.

    Regardless of the website proffered, I do not recall the Supreme Court ruling on the subject in McCain's case, or in the case of any other foreign-born candidate.

    The subject is not closed unless the court challenge is raised and ruled on.

    Me? I'm just sick of the jingoistic, one-sided, right-wing media.

    PFnV
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2008
  12. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    And you're a partisan hack who can't see past his hatred for McCain and Republicans - just like Patters.
  13. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ~~~Out of Order~~~ PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    I thought liberals were supposed to be the compassionate ones?
  14. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    From wiki:



    Both McCain's parents were US citizens.


    Since you are concerned about the subject of US citizenship and eligibility for the presidency, I would draw your attention to the forged certificate of birth for BO.

    I wonder why he doesn't present an actual birth certificate.

    numerous articles on the forerged document. His father wasn't a citizen, his mom may not have been for the purpose of constitutional requirements for the presidency (due to the amount she spent outside the country).

    http://web.israelinsider.com/bin/en...tTopics&enInfolet=ViewTopic.jsp&topicId=473
  15. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    These ultra partisans change their position based on the candidate. Patters is still unsure whether to support infidelity or not based on Edwards and McCain.
  16. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Israeli insider??? Is that the best you can do, sounds piss poor as a reliable source.. nothing on Worldnet, Newsmax or LGF???
  17. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Thank you, from now on I will refer to him as "John Sidney Mccain".

    George Walker Bush
    John Sidney Mccain
    Nancy Skank Pelosi
    Harry Weasle Reid
    John Fonda Kerry
    Albert Boob Gore
    Barack Hussein Obama

    :bricks:
  18. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    Suit yourself.......................
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2008
  19. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Youdidn't think Olbermann was going to investigate the story did you? I mean it was little green footballs and free republic who uncovered the dan rather cbs forgeries, not the MSM, and who uncovered the Edwards mess not the MSM.
  20. STFarmy

    STFarmy Rookie

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    PFinVA, are you talking about the legality of McCain being president, or just the abstract "not connected enough to America"? If you're questioning the latter, fine. But legally he can be president. It was covered all those months ago in the NYT (it was printed, not just on their website), but it disappeared quickly. It did so not because the media is giving McCain a free pass, but because it was so quickly decided by many that he could legally be president that it seemed silly to continue to harp on it.

    I personally think that the amount of leeway the candidate is given depends on the media source. NBC is definitely in the tank for Obama, and Fox will obviously be more harsh on Obama than they will on McCain. The bias thing is annoying but people should try to counter that by reading as many sources as possible.
  21. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    McCain was also born in the "Canal Zone" which also conveys US citizenship. Recently a "sense of the Senate" vote occured which said that John McCain is a natural born US citizen. Because for anyone to even think that the son and the grandson of US Navy Admirals, born in a US contolled terroritory, while his father was serving in the US armed forces, is not a "natural born US Citizen" is just plain stupid. That is why the leftwing hacks have abandoned this tack.

    Now Obama still has yet to produce anything outside of that fordged birth certificate (I broke it down in less than two seconds if you go back to the Obama fights the smears thread.)

    His father, as we all know was a Muslim terrorist, who apparently has spread his demon seed to countless children (I guess Obama is going to find another "brother from another mother" in every country that he travels to), and his mother did not reside in the US long enough (at that time, you had to have lived in the US for 10 years, 5 of which had to be after the age of 14, which was impossible for her, because she gave birth when she was 19) for her to bestow citizenship on her little bastard child. So now not only has Obama, never produced a marriage certifiacte for his "parents" the only birth certificate that he produced is a forgery.

    These are the real questions that need to be answered, I sure the Oberman will get right on it.

    Maybe that muslim school that "Barry" went to, has a copy of his birth certificate, or a leasty a signed permission slip, for him to join the "young jihadists" club.
  22. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Even if it didn't, let's say McCain were born in Japan, it is repulsive for someone to suggest that would eliminate McCain from being President when the reason he was born there is his dad was there serving in the military.

    I'm not even going to be tempted into talking about Obama here.
  23. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'll handle it, "f-ck Obama" concieted, arrogant, jug eared politically correct token toy for the democrats, I predict now, the quiet Americans will pour out of their homes in November and send this new "Messiah Idol" flying back to His Uncle Jeremiah, America will then be accused of "racism".

    Mccain is a luke warm leftist democrat but he will win.

    :bricks:
  24. patsfan13

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  25. PatsFanInVa

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    Photoshop? :)

    Talk about your laid-to-rest rumors.

    As for PFEIL, please refrain from claiming your strings of vitriol are quotes from me, idiot.

    As for anybody making the point that the legality of the foreign-born McCain's run is dependent purely on your personal belief in the inherent honor of all things military, you are mistaken. The question of whether he is native-born is similarly not dependent on his parentage. It is an open question which will have been interpreted if and when the Senator from Panama's presidential run is considered in the courts.

    Now then, to address the point of whether this should disqualify McCain? Oh, I don't think so.

    But it's interesting to find that the wrong-wingers are up in arms about a legitimate question being raised, vis., whether the candidate meets a legitimate constitutional requirement of being born in the U.S. -- which he was not.

    The question really hinges upon whether being born abroad of U.S. parents "counts." This silliness about being on territory leased by the U.S. does not count, but I do not think you'd even raise it were McCain born on base in, say, Okinawa.... and neither of us really believes he would refrain from running.

    It's an arcane matter, certainly. But it is one of the constitutional considerations.

    Now then, we have an established fact -- that McCain was not born in the US -- which is a legitimate constitutional consideration -- never mentioned by the right-wing media.

    We have the idiocy still flying around about "omigawd omigawd Obama may be a Muslim" making the "news" every day, in the form of the ridiculous ploy of calling him by his "Muslim sounding" middle name, and in nearly daily tease stories about "what if he's a Muslim," and "people may think he's a Muslim," and "You know his father's a Muslim."

    By contrast, being a Muslim does not disqualify one from seeking the presidency. And Hussein is not a Muslim, whereas McCain is foreign-born, albeit to American parents.

    And the news media? Not a word.

    All you apoplectic righties can kiss my ass. There is nothing unholy, sinful, wrong, unamerican, evil, twisted, or particularly partisan about asking what the Constitution says, and how it will be applied.

    To one of the few thoughtful responses here:

    There is indeed a second issue, whether McCain has sufficient exposure to a sufficient spectum of the U.S. in his early upbringing to be trusted to care about all the people, or for that matter, to be familiar with American culture other than the military. Obviously his family upbringing is constrained by that culture, and his educational experiences revolved around it. Once again, turn purple if you would like at the idea that such a thoroughly military upbringing can be a "bad" thing. This is not the point. The point is that his early viewpoints and experiences were confined to a military sub-culture, often abroad, where contacts outside the military were not merely minimized by common culture, but by such barriers as language and sometimes, I would imagine, antipathy.

    It is as silly to say that McCain must have been a drug dealer because he was born in Panama, as it is to say that Obama must be a closet radical Islamist terrorist because he lived in Indonesia. I do not suspect the loyalty of either man. I do suspect that McCain's exposure to everyday Americans -- you know, we who live "off base" -- was not a robust and variegated experience.

    This is worth noting in the biased, military-worshipping, jingoistic right wing media as well. It is not likely to happen.

    And once again, turn purple if you want to about the phrase "military-worshipping." It is the truth about the media.

    I appreciate the people who serve. I think it takes stones. I think that at times, the US really is under attack, and were the men and women of the armed forces not ready to fight, we would be under attack that much more often. So go to hell if you want to pull that "military hater" bull***. It's the usual crap from a wrong-winger draping himself in the flag.

    I do not, however, believe that you can say "military" and have an aura of all that is good and holy descend on your candidate, your network, or your tortured (to be generous) "logic." A man in the military is a man in the military, nothing more, nothing less. We owe people who serve a debt of gratitude. We do not owe them our minds or our agreement.

    Hawks love to attempt to parlay the gratitude to the military which is appropriate and almost universal, into agreement with policies which are repugnant, wrong-headed, and all too often needlessly dangerous to the very military personnel they claim to admire.

    We all get this now, military personnel included. That is one good reason that the foreign born candidate will likely lose in November.

    PFnV
  26. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If BArry was an Indonesian citizen how does that effect his eligibility?

    As to Photoshopping are you referring to the forged Certificate of Birth from Hawaii?
  27. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

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    you are one angry man;)
  28. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ~~~Out of Order~~~ PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey


    there are 3 or 4 very :mad:angry:mad: people in this forum.:confused:
  29. MrBigglesWorth

    MrBigglesWorth Rookie

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    and no one has been elected yet. i can't wait to see how they react when their guy doesn't get elected.
  30. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    We'll get through it. Republicans made it through 8 years of Clinton, Democrats will soon have made it through 8 years of W.

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