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  1. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Article on Zone Coverages

    Good question, because other than missing playing time incentives, the player gets paid the same amount - and therefore doesn't really have much to complain about. Similarly, the salary still counts against the salary cap, so the team does not achieve any obvious competitive advantage. Once on IR the player is not supposed to be able to practice with the team, so that works against his skills appreciably improving in his year on IR. That drawback is the biggest detriment to red-shirting a player and stashing him away on IR for a season. The club and the player would be better off keeping him on the 53-man roster and just making him a game-day inactive every week.

    Teams have a great deal of leeway in regards to placing a player on injured reserve. The only criteria is that when the injury is significant enough to keep him out of one or more games, the team has the option of placing him on injured reserve.



    The new injured reserve with designation to return rule has a somewhat circular definition which allows for plenty of latitude in interpretation as well.: the amount of time the player has to sit out to comply with the rule is also the definition of that type of injury.

    NFL Players Association | Collective Bargaining Agreement | Article 20, Roster Exemptions

    A “major injury” is defined as an injury that renders the player unable to practice or play football for at least six weeks (42 calendar days) from the date of injury.

    Ironic that full-season IR is defined as the player needing to miss only a minimum of one game, whereas the short term IR is defined as the player needing to miss six weeks.
     
  2. SONS_OF_BELICHICK

    SONS_OF_BELICHICK Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    #93 Jersey

    Where is the chat room? Is there one? I enjoyed meeting up with other fans during patriot games in there .

    Thanks



    mod edit: I moved your question to the Help Desk forum. I believe that when the site moved away from the vBulletin software to the current software, there was no chat room included - but I could be wrong. When Ian has a chance (he's in the midst of moving) he should be able to address your question.
     
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  3. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    I'm shaky on WR terminology, such as the 9 basic routes or the X vs. Y vx. Z roles. Is there a good guide somewhere?
     
  4. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This is from National Football Post, a site which I consider to be of high quality and very under appreciated. Hope this helps.

    Inside the playbook: the NFL route tree | National Football Post

    [​IMG]

    Where do routes break?

    Before we get into the actual routes, we need to know when the WR is going to break. And outside of the 3-step game (Slant, Flat), every route breaks at a depth of 12-15 yards. Why is that important? Double moves. If you are playing defensive back and see the WR stutter his feet at a depth of 8-yards, expect him to get vertical up the field—because there isn’t a route that breaks at 8-yards. However, remember one very important detail: if the WR doesn’t break his route between a depth of 12-15 yards, you better open your hips and run. Because he is running straight down the field.​


    Check out the link above for a brief description on each of the nine routes, as well as other names that they are known by.

    Note that the diagram above is based on a receiver that is lined up to the left of the ball. So for a receiver that is running a post route (i.e., towards the goal post) and is lined up on the right, he will run forward and then slant to the left.
     
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  5. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    That's amazingly helpful. Thanks!!

    Do you have something for X vs. Y vs. Z as well?
     
  6. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Back in the sixties when the term 'ends' was discarded to differentiate between tight ends and wide receivers (or flankers (Z) and split ends (X), as they were known at that time), the terms X, Y and Z were formed to make it easier with play calls. On a typical standard formation, it reads left to right which of the three receivers is what.
    [​IMG]

    Keep in mind though that X,Y and Z do not have to be left-to-right. The X receiver is on the line of scrimmage, and split out wide from the offensive line. The Y receiver is also on the line of scrimmage, but not as wide; he could be flush to the OL (as a tight end), or go in motion and split out wide as well. The Z receiver is not on the line of scrimmage; an example would be the typical formation with a slot receiver.

    You have to have seven players on the line of scrimmage or else that is an illegal formation; normally that would be your five offensive linemen, a WR (X) and a TE (Y). Also, only those that are furthest out on either side of the line of scrimmage are eligible to receive a pass - so if the X and Y line up on the same side, then the Y is not eligible to catch a pass on that play.

    Since the X receiver is on the line of scrimmage, it will be more difficult for him to get off the line. The opposing CB will try to jam him, so he needs to be strong and quick enough to get off that jam, and enough speed to get down the sideline fast enough to get open before the QB is forced to unload the ball due to pressure from the pass rushers.

    The Z receiver, because he is off the line of scrimmage, can go in motion. That can give him a bit of a running start, but more importantly it can clear an area by having a defender trail him, and it can also make it clearer to the quarterback what the play call is for the opposing defense.

    Here is an example of a formation with the X lined up on the right rather than on the left:
    [​IMG]


    Hope that helps.
     
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  7. I am party

    I am party On the Game Day Roster

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    #12 Jersey

    They say that once a QB leaves the pocket, illegal contact downfield by defenders on receivers is then allowed. How much contact is allowed in that situation? Are defenders allowed to just tackle the receivers since the QB is out of the pocket? Conversely, are receivers allowed to just push off with impunity when the QB is out of the pocket?
     
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  8. I am party

    I am party On the Game Day Roster

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    #12 Jersey

    For an offensive tackle, what is a "double-kick"? I assume that's some sort of footwork technique they use when pass protecting. What does it look like?

    For example:

    Sherrod is a left tackle candidate with excellent athletic ability. He makes pass blocking look easy and his double-kick to set for a wide speed rusher is effortless.

    South roster shows there's quality depth on the offensive line | NFL.com

    ------------------

    There are two primary benefits to the Wide 9. One is it makes it difficult for offenses to run outside. But the real reason teams use it is it gives the defensive ends excellent angles to get to the quarterback.

    “It puts the fear of God into the offensive tackles if you have guys like Jason Babin, Jared Allen, Tamba Hali, Cliff Avril, Kyle Vanden Bosch, Lawrence Jackson and Willie Young,” Cunningham told me. “All these guys were some of the top speed guys coming into the draft and when you align wide, the OTs have to double kick on pass protection to block the edge. The double kick went out a few years back and now everyone is straight line dropping in the pass, meaning the OTs are holding space to stop the three technique, so the DEs that are wide have a straight line to the 7 ½ yard spot for the QB’s five step drop.”


    NFP Sunday Blitz - Dan Pompei - Oct 14, 2012 | National Football Post
     
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  9. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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  10. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    Thanks!

    So an X is a split end (in the old terminology), a Y is a tight end, and a Z is a flanker (in the old terminology.

    A slot receiver would presumably be a Z as well?
     
  11. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It gets a little murky with three or more receiver formations.

    Some people refer to the slot receiver as a Z as well.

    When teams use a third, fourth or fifth receiver in their formations they may be referred to by the letters F, H and W. So in a two-WR formation the slot receiver could be the Z, and in a three-WR formation that very same slot receiver could be the H. Because it's the same player and he's still a slot receiver, to avoid confusion many people still refer to him as a Z.

    Flanker, Flex, Split End, Slot | Football Outsiders

    First, the terms: a split end is a receiver on the line of scrimmage several yards from the five interior linemen. A flanker is aligned one or two yards off the line of scrimmage and split wide. A slot receiver is aligned between the main formation and another receiver. If he is inside the split end, he is off the line of scrimmage. If he is aligned inside the flanker, he is often (but not always) on the line. A receiver can also be "flexed," placing him on the line of scrimmage and four to six yards wide of the offensive tackle. This is usually a tight end's position, but in modern offenses wide receivers are often flexed. See the figure for some default positions.

    I use these terms when explaining playbook diagrams, but they are really out of date. The terms are holdovers from T-formation offenses, in which the flanker was often one of the backs who reached the flanker position via presnap motion. Modern offenses use letter names for receivers: X and Z for the starting receivers, Y for the tight end, letters like F, H, or W for third, fourth, or fifth wideouts. Different systems have different preferences. In one system, the X receiver is typically on the left, Z on the right.​

    [​IMG]

    Football Outsiders is another great site for explanations and information about the game by the way.
     
  12. unoriginal

    unoriginal In the Starting Line-Up

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    Typically in the Erhardt-Perkins system the Patriots run the eligible receivers will always be X, Y, Z, F, and H.

    In the base formations these correspond with:
    X = split end
    Y = tight end
    Z = flanker
    F = fullback
    H = halfback

    The third wide receiver / second tight end in those personnel groups is usually the F.
     
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  13. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    Thanks! I'd been suspicious of the idea that there were just three cast-in-stone receiver roles.
     
  14. I am party

    I am party On the Game Day Roster

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    #12 Jersey

    In Mike Reiss' chat yesterday (link), somebody mentioned a 'W' receiver.


    What exactly is a 'W' receiver?
     
  15. I am party

    I am party On the Game Day Roster

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    Watching the latest Hard Knocks ep...

    About halfway through the episode, the Falcons o-line is doing film review of the 1-on-1 pass rush drills that they did earlier that day. On one play, JJ Watt rushes Jake Matthews and head butts him right in the facemask.

    Are pass rushers allowed to use headbutts as part of their repertoire?
     
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  16. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In a spread formation with four receivers and no tight end, some teams use the terms W, X, Y and Z to refer to the four receivers. In that case the X and Z are both lined up on the line of scrimmage, while the W and Y are off the line (as flankers or slot receivers).

    The formation might look something like this:

    X..........LT LG C RG RT ................ Z
    .... W .......................... Y ........
    ................. QB .......................
    .......................RB...................
     
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  17. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I just saw this article linked in another thread, and thought it would be worth posting here. Given the recent discussion, some of the confusion may be coming about due to different offensive systems.

    This column talks about the three different offensive systems that are being used, the differences, terminology, illustrations of routes, and more. It's lengthy and may require being read more than once before it sinks in, but I thought it was a valuable resource worth sharing.

    Speak My Language << How terminolgy in the Erhardt-Perkins system helped maintain dominance for Tom Brady and the Patriots | Grantland

    And by the way, Grantland is another good site worth bookmarking for football fans, even if it is for the most part a pop culture web site.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  18. I am party

    I am party On the Game Day Roster

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    Reading an article on patspulpit (link), it says that if the Pats line up in a 3-4, Siliga could play LDE while Easley could play RDE. Based on what we know about these two players, I'm assuming a Pats 3-4 LDE is expected to be a space eating 2-gapping run stuffer, while a Pats 3-4 RDE is expected to be a 1-gapping pass rusher. Is this correct? If so, why is that? What's the difference between lining up as a LDE or a RDE in a 3-4? Is the difference unique to the system Matt Patricia uses?

    I googled and found this article (basics of 3-4 defense) which is pretty cool, and it even breaks down a 3-4 front used by the Pats, but it doesn't address the difference in roles between a LDE and a RDE in the Pats 3-4 scheme.
     
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  19. neuronet

    neuronet In the Starting Line-Up

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    Bump. Interesting question, unless I missed it I don't think it was answered.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2014
  20. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    NFL Rule 8, Section 4, Article 7 states:

    END OF RESTRICTIONS
    Article 7 End of Restrictions. If the quarterback or the receiver of the snap demonstrates no further intention to pass the ball (i.e., hands off or pitches the ball to another player, throws a forward or backward pass, loses possession of the ball by a muff that touches the ground or a fumble, or if he is tackled) the restrictions on the defensive team prohibiting illegal contact, an illegal cut block, or defensive holding against an offensive receiver will end, and a defensive player is permitted to use his hands, arms, or body to push, pull, or ward off an offensive receiver, pursuant to Rule 12, Section 1, Article 5. If the quarterback leaves the pocket area with the ball in his possession, the restrictions on illegal contact and an illegal cut block both end, but the restriction on defensive holding remains in effect.

    If a team presents an apparent punting formation, defensive acts that normally constitute illegal contact (chuck beyond five yards, etc.) are permitted, provided that the acts do not constitute defensive holding.​


    To answer your question, the only limitation on the amount of contact that is allowed downfield once the quarterback leaves the pocket is none, with the exception of the contact constituting any other rule violations. For example, it does not mean that one player can now grab and twist his opponent's face mask; that would still be a penalty. Think of it as being treated as a running play in terms of what contact is and is not allowed.

    Official Playing Rules of the National Football League - NFL.info

    This link may be helpful for any rule questions. I simply hit ctrl-f and searched for the word 'pocket' to find the definitive answer, as I was not completely sure myself.
     
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