Welcome to PatsFans.com

(Not so) Stupid football questions

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by neuronet, Dec 1, 2010.

  1. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2005
    Messages:
    13,090
    Likes Received:
    70
    Ratings:
    +172 / 0 / -0

    For those that are interested, here is somebody's break down of a Cover-3 Defense, complete with definitions, still pictures, diagrams, and plenty of links to further information:

    Jaguars Film Room: Coverage with the Cover-3 - Big Cat Country



    Coverage Zone Rules

    Now that we know how the defense numbers the receivers' distribution before the snap, the next step is learning the actual rules of pattern-reading. Remember, the pass defenders aren't just dropping to an area and breaking on the ball, they're looking to take away specific things, starting with vertical threats up the seam (the biggest potential void in the defense). Courtesy of Shakin the Southland:

    Flat - Stays inside the alignment of #1 receiver to that side but stays outside everyone else, so any receiver that comes toward the sideline must not get wider than the flat defender is playing. As we defined before, it means he can't let anyone cross his face without breaking on the route. His aiming point in his drop is 10 yards deep in the seam and anyone that comes nearby should be rerouted by force. The man playing the flat or curl/flat area is generally the guy with the toughest assignment because of the amount of yards he must cover.


    Hook/Curl - Original drop inside the #2/3 receiver, and must never let someone go up the seam undefended. Based on the release of the #2 receiver, he stays on the inside edge of the numbers. If he's on a TE, he must get his hand on him. Exactly what he does to him depends on whether the TE starts outside or inside from the LOS. If he goes outside, the defender drops 10 yards and immediately looks for a Smash pattern.


    Deep Coverage - Corners take anyone man/man who goes deeper than 12 yards from the LOS, while the middle coverage defender (FS/SS) watches the seams to either side.

    These rules are pretty universal against almost any pass concept the defense can see. As such, it's easy for sub package players, such as a nickelback or a third safety, to come in and execute the exact same coverage responsibilities as the man he replaced. Just remember that the underneath defenders priorities go (in order): 1. Re-route any vertical threat to protect the seams and then 2. Read for a corresponding in our out break depending on their relation and leverage to the receivers post-snap.​
  2. SB39

    SB39 On the Roster

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,896
    Likes Received:
    183
    Ratings:
    +457 / 18 / -28

    If a TE is blocking a defender and then turns to make a quick catch, that TE can just as easily be called for offensive PI for pushing off as the defender is likely to be called for defensive PI.

    PI is a ridiculously inexact science unfortunately.
  3. goheels22002

    goheels22002 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2009
    Messages:
    3,838
    Likes Received:
    46
    Ratings:
    +125 / 1 / -6

    #50 Jersey

    Question: Can teams get down to 75 players now?

    2013-14 Calendar: Key Dates for the Pats and the NFL :All Things Pats

    NFL teams are just over one week from the date that they must get down to 75 players on their active roster - August 27. As the teams release players, do they still have to add somebody to get to the 90-man requirement at the beginning of training camp or can they just cut guys and not fill those spots?
  4. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,111
    Likes Received:
    72
    Ratings:
    +210 / 2 / -0

    #75 Jersey

    Re: Question: Can teams get down to 75 players now?

    They can just cut guys and not fill those spots.
  5. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2005
    Messages:
    6,572
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    Re: Question: Can teams get down to 75 players now?

    90 is a maximum, not a minimum. There are no roster size minimums in the NFL, though there is a salary floor.
  6. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    20,431
    Likes Received:
    114
    Ratings:
    +205 / 4 / -5

    Re: Question: Can teams get down to 75 players now?

    IIRC, the minimum you can carry long-term during the regular season is 51.

    [You can dip below this temporarily, but not for more than 24 hours.]
  7. neuronet

    neuronet Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    2,181
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    #87 Jersey

    Often announcers will say someone is a 'left tackle', but isn't there a left tackle on offense and (some) defenses? By default is it assumed to be offensive left tackle unless specifically indicated otherwise?
  8. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2005
    Messages:
    13,090
    Likes Received:
    70
    Ratings:
    +172 / 0 / -0

    Defensive tackles are typically not designated as 'left' and 'right', though it is not uncommon for defensive ends to be referred to that way. In a 3-4 defense you would have just one tackle, and he's often referred to as a Nose Tackle (NT) rather than a defensive tackle. A 3-4 NT might play a 0-technique, which means that he is straight up on the center; a 4-3 NT might play a 1-technique, where is shaded on one shoulder of the center (between the center and a guard) and attempting to occupy two offensive linemen.

    Nose tackles are typically really big guys (like Vince Wilfork), even bigger than other defensive linemen. Their assignment is to blow up the offensive line and draw the attention of two defenders. They don't rack up a lot of statistics; what they do is create havoc and then other defenders can get through to make the tackles and sacks.

    Normally a 4-3 NT is looking to get in the A gap (between the center and guard) while also having responsibility for the C gap (between the guard and tackle). That's what's called 2-gap responsibility (which the Pats employ).
  9. neuronet

    neuronet Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    2,181
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    #87 Jersey

    :hail::hail: Thanks for the thorough answer!
  10. neuronet

    neuronet Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    2,181
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    #87 Jersey

    What are the new rules for helmet-spearing on RBs? If an RB is running low, is it legal to spear their helmet with your helmet (like against Amendola last night against the Saints)? Note I know he is not an RB, but it was well after the catch so I think similar rules apply (though I may be wrong about that).

    Under current rules, should that hit have been penalized, and would Pollard's hit on Ridley in last year's conference game now be considered a penalty?

    If not, that seems strange, as it is just as dangerous consequences as a similar hit on a defenseless receiver. Is the difference that the RB is not defenseless, but should have a more clear vision of the danger approaching?
  11. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2005
    Messages:
    13,090
    Likes Received:
    70
    Ratings:
    +172 / 0 / -0

    The new NFL rule prohibits runners (anyone carrying the ball, not just running backs) and defenders from lowering their heads and striking a forcible blow with the crown (top) of their helmets when they are outside the tackle box.

    The way I interpret that, the hit on Amendola would not be part of the new rule because he was outside the tackle box (i.e., outside of where tackles line up).

    On a side note a spearing penalty is when a player who is on the ground is hit with the crown of the helmet.
  12. neuronet

    neuronet Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    2,181
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    #87 Jersey

    Wait, wouldn't it apply because he was outside the tackle box?
  13. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2005
    Messages:
    13,090
    Likes Received:
    70
    Ratings:
    +172 / 0 / -0

    You're right, my mistake.

    So much for my multi-tasking abilities here at work, I think I'm better off just doing one thing at a time...

    The other thing that I'll have to look for when I re-watch the game is whether or not the defender (Jenkins?) hit Amendola with the crown of his helmet; if it was the side of Jenkins helmet then it could be considered incidental contact.
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
  14. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Messages:
    20,431
    Likes Received:
    114
    Ratings:
    +205 / 4 / -5

    A clarification on the safety rule

    In the game day thread, someone basically suggested that if a KR steps out of the back of the end zone while trying to field a return, it should count as a safety.

    Just to be clear, the reason it doesn't is the idea of impetus. To score a safety, the team with possession of the ball must also provide the impetus that puts the ball into play.

    On a kickoff that goes into the end zone, the impetus comes from the kicking team—i.e., not the one with possession. The impetus only changes to the receiving team when the KR exits the end zone. So the only way to score a safety on a kickoff is if the KR comes out of the end zone, and then retreats back into the end zone.
  15. SB39

    SB39 On the Roster

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2010
    Messages:
    1,896
    Likes Received:
    183
    Ratings:
    +457 / 18 / -28

    Re: A clarification on the safety rule

    That's silly. Stepping out the back of the end zone is the equivalent to taking a knee.

    Even if there is a squib kick that bounces around, the guy fields it in the end zone and tries to run it out but somehow gets tackled before getting out of the end zone, it is still a touchback.
  16. Uncle Rico

    Uncle Rico Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    9,016
    Likes Received:
    53
    Ratings:
    +121 / 0 / -1

    No Jersey Selected

    Re: A clarification on the safety rule

    Hey -- that was my post in the game thread. I think what I posted was "every time I see a returner step back out of the end zone after fielding the ball it feels like it should be a safety."

    Really just an off-hand comment; certainly didn't expect a separate thread (!), but thank you for the explanation. Figured it was something like that; good to see it well articulated.

    Hah - um, thanks. In my defense, there were probably many many way sillier posts in that thread. ;)
  17. fourhour

    fourhour Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2012
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Zeus' "This and That" thread below (great thread too) prompted me to ask this question. It was mentioned a few times in Sunday's Pats/Bills game but it had never occurred to me until then.

    I always assumed that a ball runner stepping out of bounds stopped the clock but on Sunday the announcers said it only happens in the last few minutes of the game? Anybody care to clarify this please?

    And on the subject of rule calling, does anybody know the name of the site that lists the game day ruling errors? I think it was linked here after the Pats/Panthers game.
  18. unoriginal

    unoriginal Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Messages:
    3,216
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +42 / 2 / -1

    Clock stops only during the last two minutes of the first half, and the last five minutes of the second half.
  19. fourhour

    fourhour Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2012
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    How'd I miss that one???? Thanks for your reply.


    BTW, I found the site: footballzebras.com
  20. rlcarr

    rlcarr PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2006
    Messages:
    747
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +36 / 1 / -1

    No Jersey Selected

    When did you first start watching football? (I'm not trying to be sarcastic or snarky).

    Since the dinosaurs walked the earth, the clock always stopped when the ballcarrier went OOB.

    Then, in the 1990s (can't remember the exact year) because of "concerns" that the games were taking "too long", the NFL decided to give the fans less football instead of less commercials and changed the timing rules to be as explained above.

    So if you became a football fan pre-1990s you probably internalized the The-Way-God-Intended timing rules and so never really noticed the change.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>