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Not faster than light after all

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Oct 16, 2011.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There's no way to summarize this article, but reading it, it's just incredible what science has accomplished -- the way they measure the speed of neutrinos must take into account so many different variables, and yet achieve a level of accuracy that's hard to imagine.

    Of course, the fact that most governments appear to accept Einstein's theories (which has had a lot of impact on military weapon development) makes the article suspect. After all, in the Global Warming debate we learned from Tea Partiers and Republicans that scientists who support leading theories are dishonest individuals fishing for fat government grants. Then again, Exxon hasn't start the 'time travel' business yet, so maybe the anti-science crowd will consider the following. At any rate, it's interesting.

    Faster-than-Light Neutrino Puzzle Claimed Solved by Special Relativity - Technology Review

    It's now been three weeks since the extraordinary news that neutrinos travelling between France and Italy had been clocked moving faster than light. The experiment, known as OPERA, found that the particles produced at CERN near Geneva arrived at the Gran Sasso Laboratory in Italy some 60 nanoseconds earlier than the speed of light allows.

    ... (The article offers a fairly clear explanation of the OPERA experiment and describes an error that he believes the OPERA team made that, if taken into account would yield a correction of ...)

    64 nanoseconds, almost exactly what the OPERA team observes.

    ...

    If it stands up, this episode will be laden with irony. Far from breaking Einstein's theory of relatively, the faster-than-light measurement will turn out to be another confirmation of it.
  2. khayos

    khayos Rookie

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    Sounds like one opinion... I wouldn't have chosen this blog post to start a whole thread about on something that is still under peer review. But that's how it is with lefties: find one argument that supports your theory and ignore everything else.
  3. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I would guess most of us hope that there are particles that move faster than the speed of light, since that would offer the potential for time travel.

    But, the reaction to the OPERA findings by most physicists, including the OPERA physicists themselves, was that there is likely a flaw in their analysis. If you accept that view, then the article is rather interesting because it presents a possible flaw in a clear and logical manner. Obviously, peer review is necessary (but don't tell that to the global warming deniers who have far fewer peer reviewed articles than the global warming believers), and the article states as much.
  4. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

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    and the drive-by poster strikes again, and again hypocritically ignores his side's own practices
  5. khayos

    khayos Rookie

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    What's funny is you have to make a similar snide remark on my every post... did I get in your head?
  6. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

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    What's funny is people who think that comments responding to them on a message board are indicative of anything more.

    Are you a bit of a narcissist?

    (btw, I'll stop making "snide" comments when you actually contribute something for once)
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2011
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I got curious as to exactly how long a nanosecond is. Wikipedia says, "A nanosecond (ns) is one billionth of a second (10−9 s). One nanosecond is to one second as one second is to 31.7 years."

    To me, the fact that the debate is over 64 nanoseconds and not about whether it's possible to actually precisely measure a moment that short is amazing.
  8. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This is very informative, in this case the Physicist revealed their methods and results and asked others to verify or disprove their measurements. They were looking for someone to disprove their results.


    Contrast this with the MMGW crowd, hide data, based conclusions on computer models not measurements, refused to release their code that form the basis for computer models for independent analysis, conspire to spike articles from peer review with threats and intimidation.

    This is an example of REAL SCIENCE.

    That for posting something that clearly show what good science should look like instead of what the fraud being perpetrated by the MMGW cabal.
  9. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    I think this finding throws all science ito turmoil when you compare the accuracy and reliability of the CERN measurements with all other findings in science since the beginning.

    BRILLIANT!
  10. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    That's how it is with Patters. The guy took a discovery about neutrinos and special relativity and actually somehow twisted it into a partisan argument.

    "Scientists discover a neutrino that goes faster than light, therefore republicans are evil and racist!"

    "Waitasec, it turns out the neutrino doesn't go faster than the speed of light, therefore republicans are evil and racist!"
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2011
  11. PatsFanInVa

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    One nanosecond : one second :: one second : 31 years?

    Wow.

    Hey, how does that compare to the actual age of the earth vs. the "biblical" age of the earth?

    :eek:
  12. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    Those "therefore"s are superfluous.
  13. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah, it's more accurate to just split each case into two statements. "Republicans are racist" is an arguable proposition, made less supportable by the purported linkage.
  14. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    Does everyone on here know that?
  15. PatsFanInVa

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    I think so. I'm not sure whether you're allowed to argue the proposition, but it's definitely an arguable proposition. My observation is that it's far more common and allowable to say "libruls are..." and just spew a bunch of meaningless bile. Phrases like "love affair with Islam" come to mind. That one's not even an argument, just a stereotype equating to "don't hate Muslims enough."

    On the subject of the arguable proposition itself, measure racism in this case by the predictable outcome of policies on a population, given that population's statistical income distribution.

    And of course, there are those Republicans who favor repeal of the voting rights act, the civil rights act, or birthright citizenship (and/or other constitutional provisions instituted to make more progressive federal policies trump "states' rights" arguments that have historically redounded to the detriment of African Americans.)

    Present day Republican "central" doctrine, and various factions, could very easily be argued to be racist to various degrees.

    You don't know that?
  16. khayos

    khayos Rookie

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    And liberal support of abortion could be viewed as targeted genocide. Don't you know that?
  17. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Measurable outcomes of policies?


    So by that measure libs are racist the war on poverty has resulted in hihger levels of poverty among minorities since it's inception during the Johnson administration.
  18. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    ..well, duh! ;)
  19. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I like your logic ;)
  20. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    At this point, Republicans can travel 100 years into the "future" just by changing party affiliation.

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