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Not attributing enough credit/blame to Patriots coordinators

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by maverick4, Sep 25, 2009.

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  1. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Every single thing that happens on the field, is not intentionally done or decided upon by Bill Belichick. He is not a micro-manager dictator. Multiple books/articles have interviewed him saying he's learned since Cleveland to delegate more, trust and give his coordinators autonomy under an overall vision/guidance he gives.

    It's unlikely that Belichick specifically wanted to only blitz rookie QB Mark Sanchez three times all game; that was more likely Dean Pees. It's unlikely Belichick specifically wanted to use 3-WR every single play and almost always out of shot gun, completely abandoning the run - that was more likely inexperienced O'Brien's play-calling during the game.

    Did Belichick call the game-winning drives in 2001, 2003, and 2004? Nope, that was Charlie Weiss. Did Belichick call the horrible game-ending Patriots drive in 2007? Nope, that was McDaniels. Did Belichick micro-manage the 2005 defense when Mangini was stinking it up as coordinator? Nope, he let him do his thing almost the entire season.

    This is also a reason why so many owners and GM's try to hire Patriots coaches or front office people...people like McDaniels, Weiss, Crennel, Pioli, Dimitroff, Mangini. They know these people deserved credit for the Patriot successes, they were making decisions too, that they weren't merely robots executing what Belichick dictated them to do in excruciating detail. By saying it is always Belichick, is taking away credit (and blame) from the people who work under Belichick. It's also as silly as taking credit away from Belichick the coordinator, when he worked for Bill Parcells and their Giants championships.

    Belichick is the best coach of the modern era, but he isn't a micro-manager. Like any boss, he meets with them to go over their work, give feedback/suggestions, reiterate his vision and expectations. He does the best he can managing the entire team, and gives his coordinators much autonomy. To claim that every single criticism is somehow an attack on Belichick, or to ascribe every event/tendency on the field as a decision by Belichick, is giving the man too much credit and blame. The most extreme of this are people wondering recently if Belichick intentionally loses games.

    [reposted because this is a unique topic, and the previous thread on this was improperly merged into a completely different discussion, rendering it impossible to follow or discuss]
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2009
  2. bbell31

    bbell31 On the Game Day Roster

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    Re: Not Attributing Enough Credit/Blame to Patriot Coordinators

    o'brien did a fine job, pees questionable at times...jets game, alot of the blame goes to mr. brady, the wr's, oline, te at times....they had slants and hitchs on to beat the blitz but brady either made a poor throw, oline didnt give enuf time, or wr dropped the ball...
     
  3. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Not Attributing Enough Credit/Blame to Patriot Coordinators

    We are forgetting the killer of all killers- penalties.



    • 1st & 10 at NYJ 17 – T.Brady pass short middle to J.Edelman to NYJ 7 for 10 yards. (HOLDING PENALTY)
    • 1st & 20 at NYJ 27 – T.Brady pass incomplete short middle to J.Edelman.
    • 2nd & 20 at NYJ 27 – F.Taylor right end to NYJ 15 for 12 yards. (HOLDING PENALTY)
    • 2nd & 30 at NYJ 37 – T.Brady pass short left to J.Edelman to NYJ 27 for 10 yards
    • 3rd & 20 at NYJ 27 – T.Brady pass incomplete short left to J.Galloway.
    • 4th & 20 at NYJ 27 – S.Gostkowski 45 yard field goal is GOOD.
    Without the penalties this might have been a TD. The same thing happened on another drive and on a Jets drive that was stopped and ended in a field goal for the Jets because of a penalty.

    I'm not saying that the ref's made bad calls because most of them were deserved. So we can blame the OC, DV, HC, OL, QB, DB's and anyone else. The fact is that without those penalties the outcome would have been different.

    So, they need to stop shooting themselves in the foot this week.





     
  4. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Re: Not Attributing Enough Credit/Blame to Patriot Coordinators

    I agree the players themselves also did not play well. Brady was rusty, missed some throws he could have scored TD's with, etc.

    However, why do you think O'Brien did a fine job? 4 delay of game penalties, the mental mistakes and penalties are partly attributed to coaches too, plus O'Brien ran the same shot gun formation all but one snap all game. He also passed 100 times in 2 games so far, even though his running game was dominating.
     
  5. BionicPatriot

    BionicPatriot In the Starting Line-Up

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    Re: Not Attributing Enough Credit/Blame to Patriot Coordinators

    You're NEM aren't you?

    First, you're just sooooo happy McDaniels is gone because for the last 2 years you've cursed the ground the man walks. Now a new guy comes in and you're complaining after 2 friggin weeks? Give it a rest. Are you going to point out every mistake he makes, like you did with McDaniels, even if we win? Are you going to complain about them non stop like you did McDaniels?
     
  6. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Re: Not Attributing Enough Credit/Blame to Patriot Coordinators

    The only similarity with that poster, which is barely any, is that we don't see Belichick as some sort of pervasive God with his hands in every single decision that takes place on the field. The coordinators have a lot of influence every game in terms of the plays and preferences used.

    To dismiss any criticisms of the offensive or defensive units as easily as you do, is lazy, ignorant, and obtuse.
     
  7. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Re: Not Attributing Enough Credit/Blame to Patriot Coordinators

    To your point, while Belichick had a lot going against him in Cleveland, didn't he once also admit that he attempted to do too much, acting as OC, DC and head coach?

    I'm not finding it right away but I think even early in his tenure with the Pats he all but stated that.

    As far as blame and credit, I haven't seen the best execution from the players yet - I'm not ready to "blame" anyone but them for what could easilly be an 0-2 start.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2009
  8. Ian

    Ian Administrator Staff Member

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    Re: Not Attributing Enough Credit/Blame to Patriot Coordinators

    By that same token if they converted a couple of those other Red Zone opportunities they could also be 2-0.

    Come on Joe - do me a favor and become one of those "glass is half full" type of guys. :cool:
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2009
  9. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Re: Not Attributing Enough Credit/Blame to Patriot Coordinators

    Maybe if we just had a smaller glass? :cool:

    Frankly I wouldn't jump off the bandwagon if they were 0-4. I'd still have every expectation that they'd pull things together and make the playoffs

    There's a lot going against these guys right now but still, based on the way they've played, if they were 0-2 I'd honestly have to say they deserved that record. If they were 2-0 I'd honestly have to say they weren't as good as that record.... I'm neither a homer nor a fair weather fan - I try to be objective and if they were executing consistently well and just falling short because of bad luck I'd say so... but that's not what I'm seeing.

    I think a 1-1 team accurately reflects what they are - a team that can see a game go either way based on just a few plays. I don't think that's what Belichick wants... he wants a team that will have the luxury of lots of plays not going their way, running up points so as not to rely on the defense.

    The bottom line for me is that it's only Week 3 and like in every Super Bowl season, I know they just need to be peaking as they go into the playoffs.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2009
  10. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Re: Not Attributing Enough Credit/Blame to Patriot Coordinators

    It's funny how many McKid defenders used to pin all the play-calling criticisms before onto Belichick, but now that he's gone they put much more blame on O'Brien for his play calls.

    Look at how different the offense and defense has looked from 2001-2004, 2005, 2006-2008, and now. It's not merely a reflection of the personnel. Belichick is giving much more autonomy to his coordinators, on both sides of the ball, than anyone here is giving credit for.

    He can't do everything by himself. It's true they probably meet and go over the opposing team's weaknesses and certain plays to use, but he isn't telling his coordinator to run the same things over and over again, the in-game calls are the coordinator.
     
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