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No wonder they hope Obama fails

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Mar 7, 2009.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This is an interesting article by a highly regarded conservative. These few excerpts don't do it justice. In it, a conservative confronts the reality facing the Republican Party and proposes a way out.

    Why Rush is Wrong | Newsweek National News | Newsweek.com

    With his private plane and his cigars, his history of drug dependency and his personal bulk, not to mention his tangled marital history, Rush is a walking stereotype of self-indulgence—exactly the image that Barack Obama most wants to affix to our philosophy and our party.

    ...

    In 1984 Reagan won young voters by 20 points; the elder Bush won voters under 30 again in 1988. Since that year, the Democrats have won the under-30 vote in five consecutive presidential elections. Voters who turned 20 between 2000 and 2005 are the most lopsidedly Democratic age cohort in the electorate. If they eat right, exercise and wear seat belts, they will be voting against George W. Bush well into the 2060s.

    ...

    (Referring to emails he receives) Most of these e-mails say some version of the same thing: if you don't agree with Rush, quit calling yourself a conservative and get out of the Republican Party. There's the perfect culmination of the outlook Rush Limbaugh has taught his fans and followers: we want to transform the party of Lincoln, Eisenhower and Reagan into a party of unanimous dittoheads—and we don't care how much the party has to shrink to do it. That's not the language of politics. It's the language of a cult.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2009
  2. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I hope Obama fails. Because his policies have no chance to get us back to where we were. I'd rather get my ass kicked with my stocks, etc, now and have some hope because with Obama there is no hope. The only chance we have is to get the engine of the economy going and Obama has turned the key off.
     
  3. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    It is hilarious that so many say Obama is over his head.

    Bush II was over his head more than any US leader in history.
     
  4. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If Obama fails, we could easily have a candidate to the right of Bush v. a candidate to the left than Obama. In some respects, Obama's plans are moderate (mostly involves private jobs, 1/3rd of his stimulus bill cut taxes, a lot of money is being spent to aid Wall Street giants), and if those plans don't work and Bush's plans didn't work, then maybe Americans will consider going further left. You're assuming that if Obama fails, the country would turn right, but given the demographics, there is no guarantee of that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2009
  5. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    He was but Obama is giving him a run for his money. Bush's incompetence is no excuse for Obama's.
     
  6. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Demographics change, it wasn't that long ago that Carville put a bag over his head when the Republicans smoked the Dems back in, I think, '94. Failure will change a lot of people's minds.
     
  7. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    With the crucial difference that Bush's incompetence is a proven fact, whereas you hypothesize Obama's, based on your own philosophical bent. This is where empirical observation is a necessary step in determining the objective case.

    We elected Obama, and rejected 30 years of purist free-market theory. Its internal contradictions, ultimately, had destroyed it. The "engine" is not an utterly unregulated free market. The "engine" is not, I am sure you will agree, a command economy. The "engine" must be something in between, a mixed model of regulated capitalism. That is what Obama and the Democrats represent vis a vis the Republicans, still trying to peddle the theory of unregulated markets, creative destruction, and all the rest.

    And now Republicans are busy keening to the high heavens that Obama is a cryptosocialist. Balderdash. What he is, is a man who understands what is before his eyes.

    Whether he succeeds will be evident through subsequent events. We have not yet seen the effects of any of his policies. Your precious stocks may or may not ever realize the gains you would like. Of course, I wish you and your portfolio well, because that portfolio (assuming a fair amount of diversification) is an important indicator of whether jobs will be available, after George II put the icing on the de-regulation cake, and succeeded in wrecking the economy along with America's prestige abroad.

    As to this "hoping he'll fail" bullcrap, you're clearly cutting off your nose to spite your face. If he fails, your precious portfolio fails. You want him to fail? Get out of any investment that may capitalize a business that will hire employees. You want him to fail? Sell low, take the loss, and assure yourself he's a socialist so nothing will ever get any better.

    Is that what you believe? Then you should be in things like metals perhaps and bonds.

    But guess what? He's not going to fail, and metals and bonds may be looked back upon as the inevitable bubble following the equities bubble. And I bet you agree. I bet your portfolio confirms that agreement.

    But if you really want him to fail, if you are really dead certain he will fail, if you really think he took the key out of the ignition, by all means lock in all your losses, sell all your stocks and other equity investments right now, and get into TIPS or gold or commodities or whatever.

    You really believe he's failed already, right? Are you doing that? If not, why not? Don't tell me: diversification mitigates risk. But that's the rule for a normal economy, not the failed economy you maintain must be the result of Obama's policies.

    Put your money where your mouth is, BF. Sell all your stocks. Buy gold.

    PFnV
     
  8. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    In my opinion it's fact that Obama has been incompetent so far. Is it possible he's smart enough to learn from his mistakes and become competent ? Yes that is possible.

    Believe me, if we have another bear market rally I will. Not sure I'll buy gold but I'll get out of the market. I'm not going to now because we've dropped so much that it's very possible we could have a 20% bear market rally. Somewhere on these boards I said that I would get out if Obama were elected - unfortunately for me the market beat me to the punch and by election day we'd dropped so much I thought even Obama couldn't be a total lead weight on stocks - turns out I was wrong :D
     
  9. PatsFanInVa

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    LOL... and it has nothing to do, of course, with the fact that since last September the sum total of America's banking establishment will no longer capitalize so much as Popeye's friend's desire to pay you a dollar Tuesday for a cheeseburger today?
     
  10. patsfan13

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    thinking that barry's plans are 'moderate'say a lotabout how extreme your views are Patters. BTW obama's popularity si plummeting faster than the stock market he is destroying with his hair brained plans.

    btw rush's listener base is up 40%. he is laughing all the way to the bank
     
  11. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think it says more about stuck in the 1980s political thinking you are. The country has changed and too many Republicans don't yet realize it.

    [​IMG]

    Yes. "With his private plane and his cigars, his history of drug dependency and his personal bulk, not to mention his tangled marital history, Rush is a walking stereotype of self-indulgence—exactly the image that Barack Obama most wants to affix to our philosophy and our party."

    "Rush is to the Republicanism of the 2000s what Jesse Jackson was to the Democratic party in the 1980s."

    "Really, President Obama could not have asked for more: Limbaugh gets an audience, Obama gets a target and Republicans get the blame."
     
  12. maverick4

    maverick4 Banned

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    Limbaugh is exactly what is wrong with the Repub party. They will continue to feel good about themselves while alienating true conservatives as well as all minorities
     
  13. Michael

    Michael Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    The exact same approval rate his buddy "Deville" Patrick had his first year. He has now slipped to numbers resembling the end of dubyas administration. The same will happen for the new king. Especially if layoffs continue and the stock market continues to tumble as it has since his election.
     
  14. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I have no doubt that his approval rating will go up and down, down and up. That's true for all presidents. But, I was responding to Patsfans13's claims that his popularity is plummeting.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2009
  15. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    I'd be a fool to blame all this on Obama but others would be just as foolish to not blame him at all. His has significant blame here, for being so negative, for letting the stimulus turn into a spending spree, for his administration being very indecisive about where to go from here.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2009
  16. PatsFanInVa

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    Come off it. He's done more in 40 days (and whether it's to the good or not, we do not yet know,) than other presidents did in an entire first term. Had he done anymore you'd have wet your pants repeatedly. And were he any more decisive, you know damn well you'd be calling him a dictator.

    I'm not saying everything will look golden in retrospect, every little move he makes, etc. I am saying he was honest and as much as said "We may throw a few things at the wall and see what sticks. We have not been in this territory before."

    I think he also has to be damn careful to give private capital a chance to put up 90% of the cash leveraged w/10% government cash, before going all in, based on the fear of reds we saw so much of in the election, so I forgive him his timidity on that score.

    All I wanted to point out is that there are those in this country who want the President, and the nation itself, to be harmed, because their own ideologies are not coddled at the moment.

    That's bullcrap.

    PFnV
     
  17. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He is laughing all the way to the bank, but do you have any stats to show he is up 40% except those from his website, NEWSMAX or Worldnet.. my reading of the right wing world there appears to be an attempt to distance themselves from this hate monger.
     
  18. godef

    godef In the Starting Line-Up

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    Sheesh, you're such a sore loser. :rolleyes:
     
  19. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Right, he doubled the national debt in less than 40 days. All the debt we'd accumulated up until then - doubled. Nice. He spooked the stock market with ultra negativity. And again with promises of a plan then we found out there is no plan. He's put a tax cheat in as treasury secretary - who goes on to blame turbo tax - has trouble getting others confirmed and Geithner can't seem to hire anyone; same Geithner, btw, who was along for the ride as a major player in the meltdown last year as chairman of NY Fed.

    Obama and his people have been incompetent so far. Maybe it will change.
     
  20. DarrylS

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    Any credible source to back this up.. cannot find anything to substantiate this "fact".....
     

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