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No one understands the big-picture problem with the Patriots

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Ice_Ice_Brady, Jan 17, 2011.

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  1. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady Rookie

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    Here's what people don't seem to grasp in understanding the failures from 2005-2010. Great teams no longer have eight Hall of Fame players. You don't have Emmitt Smith, Troy Aikman, Michael Irvin, Larry Allen, and Deion Sanders. You don't have Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, Ronnie Lott, Charles Haley, and Roger Craig. Add to those teams numerous pro-bowl caliber stars. Teams that go 14-2 in today's NFL are usually just a sliver above a 10-6 team, with the only difference being confidence, consistency, organization, and some luck. Player for player, these teams are not separated by much talent-wise. How many teams in the NFL have three future Hall of Famers right now? Not many, if any.

    Teams that are constantly the front runners often get knocked out by hungrier teams clamoring for respect. They just don't have the head-and-shoulders above the field level of talented needed to truly dominate.

    The problem with the Patriots (and Colts, to a lesser extent) is they will forever be frontrunners as long as Brady and Manning are the quarterbacks. They are expected to win every game and are never going to be the underdogs. If you don't think it's important to have that chip on your shoulder of needing to feel like you have to prove your worth to the world, you should probably talk to Rodney Harrison. The dynasty Patriots made their dynasty from being feeling disrespected, especially against elite, MVP-caliber quarterbacks (McNair, Manning, Warner, etc.)

    This isn't an excuse; it's just the reality. Patriots and Colts constantly come out cold and calculated while fired-up teams stomp them out of the playoffs. This team has gone against the odds to continue competing at a high level, but that level is neutralized by the very real nature of being the frontrunner. This isn't basketball, where being the best team pretty much guarantees a win. It can all be lost in 60 minutes, and it usually is.

    Props to the Pats organization for standing strong. Obviously, these young players need to become mentally tougher. Being tough isn't enough when you are going to be the favorite for as long as you put on the silver and blue uniform. They need to be championship-level tough. For the Pats, every season, the pressure cooker is similar to the defending SB champions. I hope next year we will see some huge growth from experience. Just like the Browns game, a loss like this, while a huge blow, could make the team mentally tougher.
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2011
  2. Uncle Rico

    Uncle Rico On the Roster

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    No Jersey Selected

    Here's what Breer had to say over a series of tweets:

    "Been saying this for a while: Gotta wonder if Brady's Patriots have become Manning's Colts. Too-much-on-QB formula often fails in playoffs. ...

    ".. Would you believe Mark Sanchez (.800) has a better playoff win pct. than Brady (.737)? Not b/c he's better. B/c it's not ALL on him. ...

    "... Brady was unbeatable in playoffs when team could win every which way. He's 5-5 since 2005. QB-driven model failed Elway, Marino, too....

    "... B4 I board flight, ask yourself: How many shootouts did Brady/Manning have to win in title runs? Clutch drives, sure. Not shootouts....

    "... Playoff football isn't played that way, generally. It's why teams built around a QB w/a D that can only operate w/a lead often struggle.


    Don't always agree with Breer, but a good analysis, I thought. (As for shootouts on title runs, I think of two: Colts-Pats in AFCCG in 0607, and SB38 v Carolina. Other than that ...)
  3. sevengables_2207

    sevengables_2207 Rookie

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    Great points. I was a bit worried about this young team achieving so much regular season success. It may have gone to their heads and carried over into yesterday's loss.

    Listen to Bart Scott's rant. The Jets truly believed they were disrespected, talked about it all week, and went into Foxborough and upset the number one seed in the AFC.
  4. sevengables_2207

    sevengables_2207 Rookie

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    I agree with this analysis too. Patriots need more pieces to better compete in the postseason.
  5. aabtec

    aabtec Rookie

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    Isn't that what we said last year?
  6. letekro

    letekro Rookie

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    I think you ALMOST have it right here. I would frame it this way: the talent discrepancy among the top teams is miniscule, therefore, if one team makes a few key mistakes, they will lose, even if they are marginally more talented or have the better QB.
  7. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    And, as has been noted, the Pats wouldn't have had to rely on Brady so much if the defense hadn't been so gutted by injuries.
  8. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady Rookie

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    This is a year-to-year problem. Last year the major problems were leadership and putting games away. This year the major problems were nothing, other than what I posted. In the biggest game, they came out with the mentality that they'd win if they executed the Xs and Os. The old Patriots teams believed they'd win if they executed the Xs and Os- AND punched the other team hard in the face. We were dominated physically. No fire. No edge. No win.
  9. Patradomous

    Patradomous Rookie

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    #87 Jersey

    Been saying this since 8 PM last night.
  10. Bill B.

    Bill B. Rookie

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    Gee, as a longtime Patriot fan, all I ever wanted was team that would compete every year. I did not realize being competetive year in and year out is the reason why we can't win. When you look at what the expectations of this team was, and how they played and won this year, they really overacheived and exceeded expectations by going 14-2. Tough playoff loss, but I beleive this team is going in the right direction.
  11. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Rookie

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    Who's to say that injuries won't happen next year? God forbid Wilfork and Mayo go out sometime next season. The bottom line is people need to step up, the Jets had plenty of injuries but people stepped up.
  12. Ice_Ice_Brady

    Ice_Ice_Brady Rookie

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    It's not the reason we can't win. We can win. It's just another obstacle. I'm not bothered by the fact we've lost three playoff games in a row, so much by how these games have transpired. Beginning with the Giants Super Bowl, I really can't remember the last time they made fans excited at all in the playoffs. It's the other team that is making big plays, pressure the QB all game, power running, and just looking like the team that wants it more. Let's face it... they've been beaten pretty badly. The Ravens and Jets really took it to them- at Gillette- after two 8-0 seasons at home. There is clearly something wrong with the "fired-up" factor.
  13. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    This post is all wrong.
  14. Sciz

    Sciz PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Jets have always had amazing injury luck. Neal missed more games this year than their starting OL combined has over the last 5 seasons, I wanna say.
  15. upstater1

    upstater1 Rookie

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    Breer is wrong.

    I mean, folks, did we totally miss out on the Super Bowl victories?

    No shootouts?

    WHA?????????????

    Brady had a defense against Carolina that allowed 29 points in 30 minutes. He set Super Bowl records for passing for heaven's sake.

    That was a shootout, and it was all on Brady.

    That's why he earned the MVP.

    Do people really have bad memories?

    The difference is that the players produced and executed better back then.

    Look at the list of clutch players: Branch, Troy Brown, Givens, Patten.

    These guys were all better than Tate, and Branch today is maybe 75% of what he was back then.

    Even though the defense was torched in the SB, it was obviously better back then too. Don't forget though what the offense (mostly Brady) did to the Steelers in 2004.

    Let me leave you with this thought though: if the Titans receiver makes that easily makeable catch at the end of the divisional playoff in 2003, they go on to win the game.

    Then, 2003 = 2010.

    Same result.
  16. MainePatsFan26

    MainePatsFan26 Rookie

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    I posted in the topic about pass rush that the trouble with the team right now is it is exclusively about offense. It is all about Tom Brady. In fact, during the season, he was barking at the defense. This team has a great core group on defense: Wilfork, Mayo, and McCourty. Let's use at least 4 of those 6 early draft picks on defense and really add fuel to the fire. BB is a defensive coach by trade, and it is time for the Patriots to get back to defense first football. Brady will get the job done more often than not. But in games like yesterday, the defense got torched for 28 points and nobody blinked an eye. It is all on Brady. And the reason we feel that way is because we have such low expectations for the defense. Besides the draft, let's really make one big FA push to put us over the top -- Nnamdi Asomugha. This guy was talked about a few years ago as someone BB really liked. Now his contract is voided and we are in the perfect position to pursue him. Let's let Mankins go and free up some cap space for Asomugha. With Wilfork and Mayo shutting down the run, maybe two good pass rushing rookies, and Asomugha and McCourty at the corners, I think our D would be one of the most dominant in the league. Even without Nnamdi Asomugha though, upgrading the defense first really would send a message to the team that it isn't all about Tom Brady all the time -- it is about winning through smash mouth football.
  17. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Rookie

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    The Jets lost their starting RT, S, Nose tackle, among others. They suffered from injuries just like every other team.
  18. UofApatsfan

    UofApatsfan Rookie

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    Brees just won a superbowl with a QB driven model and an "opportunistic" defense that relies on playing with a lead to cause turnovers, the NFL is so wide open these days that there's no specific model that lends itself to superbowls. Brady, the receivers and the O-line flat out choked yesterday and didn't do what they needed to do, regardless of how much they're "relied on".

    One thing none of us could ever stand about Manning apologists was them saying stuff like "It's not Manning's fault his team expects him to do everything!!!" when that's no kind of excuse for only being able to put up 3 points on New England in 2004 when they had averaged over 30 PPG in the regular season. The same thing applies to Brady, yesterday he gets the lionshare of the blame.
  19. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Perhaps the team was a better team with a great defense and a weaker Tom Brady leading a weaker offense.
  20. UofApatsfan

    UofApatsfan Rookie

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    Oh and lets quit blaming the defense for f*cks sake. Through 3 quarters all the defense did was give up two TD drives that started off in New England territory because of bad offens/ST play. They also got plenty of stops in spite of bad kickoff coverage and an offense that couldn't get off the field fast enough. For one of the youngest defenses in the NFL with all the injuries it had up front, it played about as good as it could have and Vince Wilfork has cemented himself as the best NT in the NFL. The offense was healthy outside of Neal and experienced, and they **** the bed.
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