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No one likes extremists except other extremists...

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatriotsReign, Jun 9, 2009.

  1. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    GOTCHA!!

    Didn't I? You must be an extremist, huh? Well get out! Whether you're from the left or right extreme, none of you have any good ideas anyway! :D

    Patters with the moderator hat...I didn't insult anyone, so don't you dare lock me up! ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2009
  2. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    did this require it's own thread?

    define an extremist... try not to be vague
     
  3. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    It's a joke/troll thread (kinda)....I tried to bait people to see who'd stop by.

    I'd define an extremist as someone who wants to dramatically change a given society even if it goes against what the vast majority want. These kinds of people will often develop a plan in hopes of achieving their objective and would act treasonously against their fellow citizens to achieve said objectives.

    For example, a group of extremists may develope a plan top bring Wall Street to it's knees in order to affect their kind of change.

    Another example would be those willing to kill doctors who perform abortions. But extremism need not be violent. But it's typically supported by a small minority of individuals.

    There aren't many people in America who want our culture torn down and rebuilt. The majority like changes to happen slowly. I am not against extremist thinking at all. I am absolutely against anyone attempting to change a society or culture when it is not wanted by that society.

    Extremist thinkers are not necessarily extremists. An extremist thinker is a benefit to society while an extremist is both a burden and a threat. Extremist thinkers can be creative and offer alternatives to the status quo. But they will present their ideas to society and let them decide if it's the change they desire. An extremist doesn't ask, he just acts and doesn't care what the majority want.

    Hope that is specific enough for ya Press Coverage! ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2009
  4. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    I'm not an extremist, generally speaking, but for my interest and curiosity, nothing beats an extremist. No sh!t, man. The Sex Pistols, G8 summit rioters, Hunter Thompson, Thoreau, Teddy Roosevelt, Ghandi, Jesus, Marilyn Manson, Luddites, astronauts...as long as no one gets hurt.

    PS: Moderates suck at nothing and are great at nothing. Whaddaya get?....nothing. Same old sh!t. Booooooring!
     
  5. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    wistah...did you read my definition of an extremist? Did any of the people you listed above attempt to initiate a radical change in our culture against the will of the majority? That's the key here.

    Like the economic summit protesters...they're trying to enact changes the majority doesn't like or want. So no one likes them but them.

    The people you listed may be "rebels", but they are not extremists. Also, I don't need extremists to keep life interesting. Differences in personalities are interesting enough and meaningful relationships are the ultimate reward in life as far as I'm concerned. In the end, you and I are responsible for keeping life interesting. Not people like Marilyn Manson. ;)
     
  6. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    I find it unfathomable how some small minded person could give this thread one-star (must be an extremist!),;) but everyone has an opinion I guess.

    I started out with the idea of just kidding when I wrote the opening to this thread, but then PC asked me a serious question which I believe was answered intellently and thoughtfully.

    I also believe it opens the door for some serious discussion on the topic of "Extremists & Extremism". I welcome anyones thoughts for discussion.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2009
  7. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey


    Patters told me several years ago that moderates lack passion ... thus moderates do not inspire elections. :idontgetit::stars2::confused3:
     
  8. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    I think he meant "moderators do not inspire elections" :D

    And they also lack the desire to change society according to their selfish plan and against the wishes of the majority. In a democracy, majority is all that matters.

    Look, I don't worry about domestic extremists in this country. The populace has too many guns to worry about small groups of people. The only way an extremist group has a chance in the US is through covert & peaceful means.

    I've said this before and I'll say it again...I have no use for extremists.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2009
  9. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    I read your definition, but I reject it's restrictions with all due respect. You can't take a word and manipulate it to your liking - that's fascistic even if you didn't intend it to be. That's how those who resort to violence for their cause find themselves in the predicament they're in - they're branded "extremists" because those with the power and money who want to keep both. The Merriam Webster dictionary gives "radicalism" as a synonym for "extremism". Radicalism on either end of an issue changes the dynamics to varying degrees that are sometimes good and sometimes bad, but it's actual change and evolution that is almost always the result even if it's too small to notice right away. Many great movements in history were undertaken by a minority who could see through the bullsh!t of the powers elite when everyone else was either too scared, exhausted, or comfortable to do anything about a situation that was clearly unjust.

    Definitions aside...I'm not like you in the way I see radicals or extremists. I try to keep everyday life interesting, but I often push the envelope when I'm bored because I tend to be an adrenaline junkie. I like going fast and high as much as possible. I take risks in life all the time. I seek white water and steep cliffs - literally and metaphorically. (The wife says I'm crazy but I think it turns her on.) To me, extremists are interesting because they present POV's that are outside the socially accepted mainstream, which widens the mainstream's consciousness, if only a little bit or for a second.

    Just my two cents.
     
  10. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    Once again, I believe you missed what I said....specifically:

    I guess you ARE kinda like me then wistah...

    So, do you think it's ok for extremists/radicals to take action to change a society against the will of the majority? Whether the majority is ignorant, comfortable or whatever, if they do not desire change, then it's tough sh1t for anyone else wistah. That's democracy and life in America and it must be accepted.

    I'll re-emphasize that I value extremist thinking. And yes, you can and should separate those thinkers from the selfish ones who don't give a rat's ash about what people want. Remember, there are no groups who "know what's best cuz they're smarter"...that would be rather pompous.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2009
  11. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I am an EXTREME EXTREMIST, middle of the roaders can't be trusted (united we stand divided we fall)

    Example:
    Spector
    Lieberman
    Snowe
    Collins
    If any one of these people told me it was a nice day out I would put my Raincoat on.
     
  12. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    So you would have been OK with slavery and British rule in the colonies way back? You were OK with the Viet Nam War? I know slavery is an old arguement, but it's applicable.

    I get what you're saying...I just disagree with your rules. It's a lifelong problem of mine- rules, that is.
     
  13. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    That's not accurate. THere are plenty of groups who are smarter than the vast majority of us and in many cases they do the right thing which is better. You're fooling yourself if you think we live in a democracy. It sounds nice, but it's just not real.
     
  14. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    no there isn't........these groups may know about one thing, but it usually comes at the expense of common sense about everything else
     
  15. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    I have been expecting such examples wistah. They're all good points, but there are exceptions to every RULE...sorry buddy.;)

    Ok, so if you TRULY support extremism, then you support it both from the left AND the right...is that accurate? You can't have it one way.

    Also, if you look at slavery, Viet Nam, the colonial revolt and civil rights, you'd find that their causes were widely supported. Maybe not a majority in all cases (those against Viet Nam were a majority), but it was close.

    And regarding groups that "THINK" they are smarter than everyone else...are you kidding? What..."Think-tanks"....PAH-LEEZ wistah! I don't believe for a second that there are groups who know what's best for all of us any more than I know what's best.

    That is one of my pet-peeves with our federal gov't. They get into office (Barney Frank is a great example) and after a time, begin to think they know what's good for us even if the majority of us disagree. Those kinds of elected officials should be voted out of office every time.
     
  16. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    For instance....
     
  17. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    I'm waiting for the wistah challenge to my reply....:(
     
  18. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    You can deal with "beliefs" if you want. No thanks.

    First, I'm straight-up in favor of strict term limits, but that's like banging my head against a wall. But people will continue to vote for Frank no matter what and that's a fact. Is that OK with you or should someone come in and say, "That's enough! No more voting for fat-cat politicians!" I'd like that and support it, even though it may infringe on my "right" to keep electing azzholes like Frank to the detriment of the rest of Massachusetts and the US.You can throw out Barney Frank all you want, but that's a cheap example even though it may technically apply. Fine. Barney Frank thinks he's smarter than the rest of us. So what? For every Barney Frank there's a Rush Limbaugh or, to use a better comparison, a John Boehner.

    I was talking about policy makers and directors of industry and science. I know for a fact that everyone on the faculty of MIT is a lot smarter and knows more about how things work than you and me. If they determine that we have to stop using petroleum or the Earth will catch fire in 20 years, that's what we have to do. No one will believe them, though... right? If a team of researchers at Harvard Medical School determines that American Idol causes seizures (and it prolly does), the counter-arguements and human outcry about "freedom of choice" should over-rule that knowledge?

    About abolitionists...their causes were NOT widely supported. It was driven by a small group of intellectuals and philosophers...just like the US Revolution. Both causes were spearheaded by those who we would call call "The Elite".

    For the majority of the Viet Nam War, American resistance was miniscule. It took a number of "radical" and "extremist" elements to ramp up the support for getting out of Nam. A Gallup poll in May of 65 showed 48% of US respondents felt the government was handling the conflict effectively; 28% felt the situation was being handled badly. The rest had no opinion. In late August of the same year, 24% of Americans viewed sending troops to Vietnam as a mistake versus 60% who did not...In '66, a Gallup poll shows that 59% believe that sending troops to Vietnam was not a mistake. Among the age group of 21-29, 71% believe it was not a mistake compared to only 48% of those over 50. It wasn't until '69 that the scales of public opinion tipped. In October, 58% of Gallup respondents said US entry into the war was a mistake.
    Opposition to the Vietnam War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Those were just the opinion polls. The people doing the work on the ground at the demonstrations were a small portion of those numbers. They were routinely referred to as "radicals" and "extremists".
     
  19. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    Sorry. I had to wait for a break.
     
  20. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    I consider 28% to be wide support or significant. On the other hand, if we looked at support for dismantling capitalism as our economic system (hypothetically supported by extremists), it wouldn't even be 10%.

    Now maybe some smart group has decided it be more fair to more people if this happened. Their job would be to convince the rest of us that this is true. I've said twice now that these types of extremists are a benefit to society. But the one that DO NOT consult with the masses and attempt to execute their plan are treasonous and detrimental to society. There is a distinction here.

    Once again, extremist THINKING is fine as long as they take the route of consulting with the masses to convince them that their idea is the right thing to do. NO ONE has the right to attempt to execute change for everyone against the will of the majority.
     

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