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No One giving Denver a chance to win this week?.....

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PATRIOTSFANINPA, Dec 8, 2006.

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  1. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    The fact that we need Denver to win is something I was hoping would not have to happen but it appears that is the way its going to be sunday...Actually if you would rather see Denver knocked out of the Playoff picture than NE having a chance at the bye then you go with the Chargers...If you think we can grab the 2nd spot then you go with hopes on Denver.

    With San Diego having a big lead in the division this almost seems like when the Jets came to town and were all but written off with everyone saying the Jets had no chance to win the game at Gillette and they were going to lose and make it impossible to have a shot at the division title and New England was going to wrap it up that week- And what happened there? - The jets pulled off the shocker and it became a closer race,at least for the time being.

    Call me crazy or strange but in the weird year that has been the NFL 2006 Season where anything can happen and usually does,I think that Denver who is 3 games down in the division goes into San Diego and Shanahan sets up plays for running the ball most of the game keeping Cutler out of harms way and lets Tatum and Mike do most of the offensive work to the tune of 150 or more yards between them with Cutler throwing alot of safe,short pass plays and conservitive screens to alleviate the pressure from Merriman and Co. - I think Denvers best chance to beat San Diego is run right at them and control the clock...and I think the improbable happens...

    Yes you read this correctly...Denver makes a somewhat division race slightly tighter with a solid rushing performance by the 'Bell Boys' and 2 picks by Bailey,and holds Ladanian to only 80 rushing yards and goes on to win a VERY CLOSE one out there in San Diego giving all Media another week to ponder the question we all want to know which is 'Who is actually the best team in the NFL?' and we all probably won't find out till February - I may be one of only a few to give Denver the pick over the mighty chargers but I say ..... Denver 13 San Diego 10
  2. FilPats

    FilPats Rookie

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    I am rooting for Denver. They will be playing with their backs against the wall. For the Pats, the play-off bye is more important than not facing Denver. In case, we have to play Denver in the play-offs, BB will be facing a rookie QB.
  3. ironwasp

    ironwasp Rookie

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    A rookie quarterback, a faltering team - going into San Diego with that defence playing as it is. I don't like their chances at all I'm afraid.
  4. Brady'sButtBoy

    Brady'sButtBoy Rookie

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    While it would be good for our chances at a bye, the odds are low that a dysfunctional Denver offense can run on that SD defense when SD will be stacking line, daring Cutler to throw. More likely outcome is that Denver gets smoked bigtime, their confidence bubble bursts, a little locker room dissention sets in over the QB change, and the Broncos don't even make the playoffs at all.
  5. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    They gave up 21 points to Buffalo, 14 to Oakland, 27 to Denver, 41 to Cincy, 25 to Cleveland. They are not playing "well" they are putting up stats but they are giving up a lot of points.

    If you contain LT you beat SD. Oakland did for 3 1/2 quarters and they were winning, Denver did it for 3, I have watched to many SD games to buy into the hype. They are good and they are capable of beating anyone in the NFL but they are not the most balanced team. They have an above average defense and an almost unstoppable TD machine in LT and a first year starting QB. I don't call that balance.
  6. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Hi Crazy!
    I see no way that the pathetic Cuttlefish can defeat SD's talented and well balanced team even with the fine coaching of Mike "The Lord of Darkness" Shanahan.
  7. denverpatsfan

    denverpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Shanahan once again hurts the Pats. By playing the rookie he has less of a shot at beating SD. That being said it is not unrealistic to expect Denver to win. With the exception of the last game they have always shut down Tomlison. The ir running game is still very good despite what the talking heads say. Just because Bell isn't wrpping off 60 yard TD runs this year everybody thinks their run game is bad. Not the case at all. Go ahead and look up the stats.

    And yes the SD defense is not that good. That is that teams weakness. And it is why I think the Pats have a shot at beating them if we get that far.
  8. Patriotic Fervor

    Patriotic Fervor Rookie

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    Everyone says "contain LT and you can beat the Bolts", and there may be an element of truth to that. But let's face reality here.

    This Bronco defense is in the midst of a meltdown. They wilt in the 4th quarter. Don't worry - LT will get his 100 yards on this defense.

    As for what passes for the Bronco offense, quite apart from the fact that rookie Cutler is in there to work his first set of baby teeth, what happens if the opposite of "conventional wisdom" takes place, and San Diego "contains" Tatum Bell? What happens if they shut down Javon Walker because Cutler can't find him?

    This "offense" has more than enough difficulty scoring points even under the best of circumstannces. What happens if Elam's leg is not fully recovered from that high school stunt he tried to pull last week?

    For sure, San Diego has balance problems, but this Denver team, which has long since moved past the "smoke and mirrors" stage, is not really the one to expose them.

    Holding SD to 10 points - in San Diego? Good luck with that one!

    Oh, yeah - you want a score? San Diego 35, Denver 20 (maybe).
  9. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Certainly rooting for the Bronc's and Jags this weekend. Would love the bye.
  10. italian pat patriot

    italian pat patriot Rookie

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  11. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I wasn't talking so much about this weeks match up with Denver, I was talking about the Chargers as a whole going up against a team in the Playoffs and what they have done so far this season. Just pointing out the misconception that they have a great defense. Their defense started the season out great, but the last 7 games have been anything but stellar performances and if someone only looked at their stats (including points allowed) they would be misguided.

    Edit: In the past 6 games the Chargers have produced 2168 yards of total offense and LT has 1094 total yards, that is exactly 50% of their total offensive production. Throw Gates 376 yards in and you have 68% of the offense coming from TWO people. So I stand by my premise, Stop or Contain LT and you stop the Chargers.
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2006
  12. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Defense isn't as good as people make it out be either.

    Over the Past six games they have allowed an average of 25.3 ppg. Against the 15,30,7,22,31, and 25 ranked scoring offenses. Every team scored more than their season average against them.

    Season
    Bills 17.7 Against SD 21
    OAK 12.2 Against SD 14
    Den 17.9 Against SD 27
    Cin 24.2 Against SD 41
    Cle 16.0 Against SD 25
    StL 20.2 Against SD 24

    If you remove the lone top 10 scoring team (Cincy) and they have still allowed 22.2 ppg in that span.

    To put it into perspective the Colts (one of the worst defenses in football) allowed 21.5 ppg over their past six games and if you take out the highest scoring game (31 points) they averaged 19.6 ppg. Against the 18,6,2,25,8 and 22 ranked scoring offenses. The Colts allowed nearly 4 ppg less than the Chargers against better offenses.
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2006
  13. Patriotic Fervor

    Patriotic Fervor Rookie

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    Let's worry about the playoffs when they begin. I believe the original poster was asking about this week's game against Denver. Let's focus on that.

    Those are all good and viable statistics you bring up, but the main reason, I think, for this "imbalance" is, the team is simply riding the horses they have. Additionally, as has been pointed out, they have Rivers back there, in essence a rookie. Given that, that's just plain sound football strategy.

    I agree, taking LT out of the game does pose problems, offensively, for the Bolts. But as I said in my earlier post, I don't believe that will happen against this Bronco team.

    In your following post, you do good work with the numbers on the defensive side of the ball. Yes, there are areas (note the plural!) to be exploited against this team. As a practical matter, however, it's pretty difficult to see Denver being the team to do this exploiting. I mean, they could come out and score 40 points on Sunday, but it should be noted that if they do, Shanahan will doubtless be the most surprised person in the stadium.

    And if the DO score like that, I'd be more inclined to think that SD will score 41. That's how things are going for this team.
  14. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You can do what ever you like. Me, I don't see them as big of a playoff threat as most.

    Exactly and when those horses get tired (playoffs) or are taken out of the game by the defense (which Denver is capable of doing) they aren't the same. And who steps up Turner? McCardell? They haven't thus far.

    Why they did for most of the game 3 weeks ago and the Raiders did it the following week. Heck the Bills did it for most of the second half last week.

    I don't think they need 40 in this game nor do I think Cutler will get them 40, hell Plummer didn't get them 40 but Plummer didn't produce most of the passing TD's either. Most of them were a result of the running after the catch by the receiver. Look at Marshall last week and Javon Walker most of the season, it wasn't as if Plummer went through all of his checks and hit the 3rd receiver in the back of the end zone with a perfect throw. The majority were 15 yard in-cuts or posts that the receiver took to the house. This is the main reason for Shannahan's decision, IMO. Why not put the rookie in and let him throw 1 or 2 picks a game and let the receivers bail him out. All the while getting him experience, because that is exactly what Jake was doing.

    If you keep playing with fire you will eventually get burned. Ask Indy.
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2006
  15. PromisedLand

    PromisedLand Virtual Internet Person

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    As distasteful as it feels, I will root for the Doncos this weekend. But I give them next to no chance to win with the toddler quarterback Cutler starting. Shanahan really screwed the pooch on that one. The guy might turn out to be the second John Elway but based on his performance (using the term loosely) last week it is going to take some time before he is a competent, let alone expert, NFL quarterback.
  16. skaIownsIyou

    skaIownsIyou Rookie

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    at this point of the season, shanohan knows they're not winning the superbowl this year, only reason why he's sticking cutler in is to get him more snaps for next year

    i think shanohan has a lifetime contract with denver so he's just tossing this season....hopeing to get into a higher position in the draft and work on next season
  17. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I thought the same thing at first but after really putting some thought into it, I came to the conclusion I posted above. It is two fold about getting Cutler experience and figuring that Plummer just wasn't going to take them to the SB as you stated. So again why not throw the Kid in their and see if his offense can be to him what the Steelers offense was to Big Ben. Limit his attempts, hope his WR bail him out, pound the ball and trust your defense to keep you in the game.

    Personally, I don't think the Broncos will win this game (but I am hoping) and I think at most they win 2 games with Cutler.
  18. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Not only do we have to root for them but we also have to root for Herm Edwards...Two weeks in a row. :eek:

    And if that wasn't bad enough, if Denver loses we will have to root for Edwards and then the Seahawks. :enranged: :scared:
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2006
  19. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

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    There just is no way I could ever root for the Donks as long as that scumbag, chopblocking piece of $#it is their coach. Yet I can't root for the Chargers either. Hmmm...not to sound like you know who, but perhaps a destroyer could accidentally launch a missle at the middle of the stadium?;)

    JK, but I will be boycotting this game. There can be no good outcome from it.
  20. Brady'sButtBoy

    Brady'sButtBoy Rookie

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    some props to mgcolby for good research on the SD defense.

    As for LT being "half" of the offense, well, that's a bit fo the chicken or the egg thing. Since he's gained half it seems to make sense that stopping him is the key. But if everybody knows this and LT is still putting up half of the yards gained for SD, then 'stopping LT' couldn't really mean much - he's first in the league in total yards from scrimmage despite having a target on his back. I see LT's success being derived from Rivers having proven he can be dangerous when need be. Rivers is 7th in the NFL in QB rating, has thrown only 6 INTs in 360 attempts, completes 64.4% of his passes, and is 7th in yards per attempt. So is LT so good because of Rivers, or is Rivers good because of LT. the old chicken or the egg, but either way they both prevent this team from being very one dimensional.
  21. psychoPat

    psychoPat Role Player PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Until reading this thread, i wasn't aware that
    the conventional wisdom is saying that SanDi only has to show up at gametime.

    In case you haven't noticed, mgcolby is our schoolmaster in this thread.

    Never thought so before
    and would hate to ever think so again ...
    but wouldn't this be a great time

    for Shanahan's kneecappers
    to execute more brilliantly than ever
    what they've always been taught
    (and the league condones?)
  22. Hamtown

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    I am not really sure who will win. I am sure that I hate Denver, and I hope that they all get food poisoning the morning of the game. And now you know how I feel.........................P.S. Pass interference my A#S!
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2006
  23. Patriotic Fervor

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    Quote by Mgcolby:
    Why they did for most of the game 3 weeks ago and the Raiders did it the following week. Heck the Bills did it for most of the second half last week.

    Uhhh, you're supposed to play the whole 60 minutes. Almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Be sure to tell these guys that this weekend.

    There was a time when the Broncos might have "been capable" of doing it, but that window is quickly closing. That defense runs out of gas. Plus, it appears they do not have quite the talent level Shanahan though they had. I thought it would be apparent last year, but they surprised me with their adrenaline-induced level of play. This year, I'm not surprised this has happened.

    They feature fast, small linebackers that ordinarily can hide a multitude of sins. I like their linebacking corps. The line? I've seen better. I've seen much better. Champ Bailey is a champ, yes, but the other guys are showing themselves to be increasingly mortal. I do not mean to say they are bad, because they're not. They're just not what they have been advertised as.

    Yes, Cutler may win 2 more games for them. He may not. He has good physical tools, but he's just a kid, coming out of a school with a program that is really pretty weak. This is my point with him. For all his talent, he could not raise the quality of that team or that program on his own. However this translates to the next level, we'll have to see. Lots of guys have strong arms. But it's the mental and character dynamics that make the difference. So we'll see.

    As the season winds down into crunch time, it is unmistakable - it's the Broncos that are getting crunched. It's theoretically possible to turn things around, yes, but if the Broncos lose Sunday, they can just about forget about it.

    Sunday's task is unenviable. They face the juggernaut that ripped them badly in the 4th quarter a month ago that exposed them for what they are, and started them on their current 3-game slide. This is a major, major test for this defense, both mentally and physically. Offensively, they are witness to Part Deux of the dumbing down of their playbook for the new rook. Shawn Merriman is back, no doubt in ill humor. The (SD) defense doesn't have to excel in this game. They simply have to play a decent version of their game for them to win. That's all.

    That's the truth of the current situation with the Broncos. If they win Sunday, can they build on it the following Sunday? Realistically, this team cannot suffer any more losses this season. If they do...

    This is longer than I had planned to make it...Sorry.

    Thanks for the reply....
  24. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Will be holding my nose and rooting for the Broncos. The playoff bye is just too important for this very (again) beaten up team. The Patriots will need that rest.
  25. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Good reply but I don't think Rivers would execute under heavy pressure in a playoff environment, especially if he can't find Gates. If they take LT away (which I know isn't easy) then he will have to progress through his reads and make the right decision. I know he has good regular season numbers much like Big Ben did in 04. Now I realize that the situations were different given the fact that Rivers sat for two seasons, but they aren't asking him to win games. If you look at the stats even from the Cincy game he is hitting LT or Gates the majority of the time. Which I guess goes back to your question of the chicken or the egg. I think he would do well against a few teams but I think he would struggle against the Pats, Ravens or Jets.
  26. skri65

    skri65 Rookie

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    I'd think BB will scheme both very well. Rivers and Cutler are both young, and BB fiests on people like them.
  27. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

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    Hey!
    On a related note, I heard yesterday on the NFL network that the league is about to outlaw cut blocks and to make chopblocks an ejectable offense! Deliberate intent to injure and all. They went on to say that one more stunt like the one Nalen pulled in their last meeting will result in such a rule being all but guaranteed this offseason!
    :woohoo:
  28. ATippett56

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    Nothing better to watch than a Shanahan coached Denver Broncos implode in the second half of the season. The New England Patriots chances of playoff success improves dramatically once the Denver Broncos are eliminated from playoff contention.
  29. shakadave

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    Great work, Colby!
  30. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Thank you. I enjoy looking that stuff up. :D
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