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Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Mrs.PatsFanInVa, Dec 7, 2010.

  1. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    So who determines whether a station passes this test? I assume that you think it should be you, since you are so impartial and fair-minded (non-stop bashing of Fox, right-wingers and Republicans notwithstanding).
     
  2. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    FYI, Piss Christ is patently not intended to offend anybody. If you doubt this, read the artist's own comments on the photo. The fact that it does offend speaks more to people's misunderstanding of it and their own desire to be both offended and ignorant. It should not be included in any intelligent conversation about offending anybody. There is no "it is OK to offend Christians" there.
     
  3. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This is not a new thing, just a revision.. if you listen to radio, periodically every station needs to be relicensed by the FCC it is just another approach.. go take some paranoia pills.

    You seem to yearn and long for sometype of impartiality, all the while spewing the half truths and hyperbole of the right.. pot meet kettle.
     
  4. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    That's the point isn't it? That offense is in the eye of the offended?
     
  5. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    I don't think this is entirely true. I can't call somebody the n word or the c word and blame them for being offended. They are obviously meant to offend. However, if I say that I think governments should not kill innocent people and some veteran or patriot gets offended because he killed somebody in WWII and thinks it was for the good of country or some such, I was not trying to offend him specifically or generally. He's just a little touchy. If I say that I don't get why people believe in God because I can't see or touch him, it is not meant to offend (unless I'm intentionally being a d1ck), but people can freak the f*ck out about it.

    But maybe I am missing your larger point here? Dunno. :confused2:
     
  6. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    From your perspective, yes. If someone else (not me) had a different perspective, are they automatically wrong? Is it wrong if some people find Howard Stern offensive? Some people find him amusing.

    You are suggesting that there are a set of absolute standards...somewhat illiberal of you.

    I am not offended by Piss Christ, I am offended by the idea that only certain groups have a right not to be offended. Either the right to not be offended applies to all, or we should agree that no such right exists.
     
  7. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    Weren't you recently lecturing me about backing up claims?

    Well?

    I'm not the one whining about Fox 24/7.

    I spew half-truths? Prove it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2010
  8. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    Then we agree -- except I don't know where the "potentially illegal" part comes from.
     
  9. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    The "N-word"? PERFECT example Strud!

    If you were black, you could call anyone the N-word. Not true though if you're not black.

    The point is, "being offended" is up to the person who is offended. Just because one doesn't intend to offend someone is irrelevant. If I say something to someone and they tell me they're offended, then I offended them regardless of my intent and I owe them an apology.

    Now, I only know this because I once offended somoene unintentionally and thought I did NOT owe them an apology. So I looked up offending and apologizing on the internet and guess what? I found out I owed the person an apology no matter my intent. So I apologized to the person explaining that it was not my intent. As I did this, I could see the hurt in this person's eyes and realized just how irrelevant my intent was.

    A lesson learned. You might want to re-evaluate your previous statements regarding the artist's intent.
     
  10. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If your Black and you continue to use the N word than it is you who are keeping that word alive not the White Mother F-ckers.

    Young Black males and Black Comedians use the N word on a regular basis, it alomst seems as though they want it kept alive, I'll say no more.

    :bricks:
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2010
  11. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    Ha ha ha ha. As an atheist I am terribly offended by the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel. As a heterosexual male I am also horribly offended at its obvious homosexual overtones. Somebody must do something about this!

    I've met people like this. They are stupid. They have the right to be offended, even if somebody didn't mean it, but boy are they stupid. And I have the right to ignore them or call them stupid, and that's what I am going to do.

    Now if I make a crack about dead babies (slang) and somebody in the group had a baby die, they'd probably be offended. Oops. Genuinely sorry. But that's different because it's personal and not completely made up. That would suck.

    But I'm certainly not going to cowtow to everybody who is oversensitive and offended at the drop of a hat, especially if they are completely making meanings up. It's really stupid. People offended by Piss Christ don't need or deserve an apology, they need a lecture.
     
  12. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    I am thinking of the proposed "global blasphemy law" at the U.N., the "human rights commissions" in Canada and the trial of Geert Wilders in Holland.


    As I have said before, not publishing the Muhammad cartoons out of a desire to not be offensive only serves to establish Islamic rules via cultural sensitivity. I am ok if people use Christian imagery in an offensive way (even intentionally). I encourage them to be equal-opportunity offenders!
     
  13. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    That's ok Strud...it's America, you can do whatever you please.
     
  14. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    Dp they have a right to not be offended? That's the real question.

    Can you give us the complete set of rules and parameters whereby people are allowed to offended? Is it a differential equation?

    Art is now a matter of fact and not personal taste? I disagree.

    No need to apologize to them, just be sure that you show the same contempt for anyone else you offend. Otherwise, you risk being seen as prejudiced against a particular group.
     
  15. chicowalker

    chicowalker Pro Bowl Player

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    Again, I agree with you. I think far too many people are far too easily offended.

    (When talking about laws, unless we're specifically talking about other countries, I'm always assuming we're talking about the US)
     
  16. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    People can be offended or not offended. Who cares? It doesn't mean they are not stupid.

    Anybody can be offended by anything they like. It's up to other people as to whether or not they want to take the offended people seriously.

    So here's the thing. You can't really say that Ulysses is really about Sir Isaac Newton unless you can really support it with a good argument. There is no good argument saying Piss Christ is offensive to Christians without completely misunderstanding the actual work of art, the artist's intent, the artist's background, the language of art, and the meaning of metaphor. None. I.e., there are better arguments for why it is not offensive, or even meant to be offensive, than there are arguments for it being offensive.

    Personal taste should not come into play in understanding art. If you don't like it, fine. Who cares? I don't care what your personal taste is. Let it be schlocky Rockwell or crappy American landscape paintings or whatever. But you can't try to endow meaning onto something because of your personal taste. You have to at least try to be analytical. Art is, in fact, analytical, mixed with a combination of personal insight and experience.

    I personally don't like David. Does that mean I can't try to understand him? Of course not. Does it mean he's not important? Of course not. Does that mean I can invent things about him and his work? Not without a damned good argument.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2010
  17. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    Personal taste is where the "offense" comes in. You find the "c" word and "n" word offensive. Is that written into your DNA, or is that a value judgment you have made?
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2010
  18. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    I don't follow you. How are closely held religious beliefs a matter of personal taste? Personal taste is like your favorite color or favorite band. You might be offended if somebody doesn't like your favorite band, but that's not the kind of offense we're talking about here. That's a trivial sort of offense.

    It has to do with a long and sordid history of using those words to mean entire classes of people. Is taking offense written into one's DNA, or is a sense of fairness? I don't know, but there certainly might be something innate about it that provides a platform for understanding why one might react strongly to those words. Beyond mere reaction, though, it is obviously unethical to go around demeaning people. So it offends any ethical person.

    Now, if Piss Christ were intentionally demeaning I would have a problem with it. In art, nothing that is uselessly demeaning is valued. Anybody could do that.
     
  19. Triple-T

    Triple-T Practice Squad Player

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    So, back to the subject at hand. If our educational system is not working as well as we'd like, what to do?

    A couple articles from today:

    1. Florida Gov proposes new voucher program to put school choice in parents hands. Linky-link.
    2. Survey of adults points educational blame at parents. Link
    3. LA Teachers' Union stands firm on no accountability measures and more money. (Oh, children should also be educated or something like that.) link
     
  20. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I find the words "White Mother F-cker" offensive but nobody else seems too.

    :confused::confused:
     

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