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No Genocide on GWB's watch, except in Darfur...

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by DarrylS, May 1, 2006.

  1. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    George made a statement after reviewing the Rwanda report, that not on my watch, but it is happening in Darfur..maybe prayer is the answer

    http://www.savedarfur.org/news/Week of Prayer and Action for Darfur.pdf

    Our nation is appalled by the Genocide in Darfur, Sudan..

    Today there are reports from the demonstrations yesterday, however none of the main media feeds CNN, Fox News and the rest ignore what is going on here. While there is criticism of Clooney and his crew, at least he is raising awareness about the issues there. My question is how can the most powerful nation in the world, sit back and not intervene while this genocide takes place? We went into Iraq to get rid of the Madman Hussein, however Darfur is many times worse and all we offer is prayer.

    This is an issue that is underreported...

    Here is a map generated by the university of Texas, showing the extent of the violence in this country..

    http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/africa/darfur_villages_0802_2004.jpg
     
  2. Turd Furguson

    Turd Furguson Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    So you're against helping people from being slaughtered in Iraq but for helping them in Sudan?


    You cant have it both ways.


    I agree, we should be doing more in Darfur
     
  3. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Was what was happening in Iraq a genocide? I'm not being flip - I'm asking.
     
  4. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Honestly, I really don't care about the people of Darfur. And I don't care about the people of Iraq. But the middle east is more important. It has oil. It has terrorists that are active in our country. We may not be helping those causes, we may be hurting them. But I'm in favor of trying - however, not because I care about Iraqis.
     
  5. PatsWickedPissah

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    Disable Jersey

    I DO care about Dafur. Bout time it got some attention. If the 'oh so superior' Euros were anything but gutless, morally bankrupt hypocrites they would have done something about it. Yet again, they have Kosovo paralysis.
     
  6. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Just to touch up what I said, I do care but we can't support every poor country out there, it's just not do-able.
     
  7. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    Why can't the Africans help the Sudanese? I think if Africa wants to become a player in the world stage, this would be a great opportunity for them to show their capabilities and stop blaming colonialism for their troubles. I agree that colonialism hurt them deeply, but can't S. Africa, Ghana, Egypt, Libya, Morrocco, etc. get their act together and do something?
     
  8. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    How can you judge what and who is more important?? Is oil the factor, not human life?...if you look at Africa Sudan, Ethiopia and Somalia are all relatively close to each other and are all breeding grounds for terrorism. What I can never understand is the situational ethics of this administration, we are now in Iraq because of the brutal dictator, however on a back burner is places like Darfur...it makes no sense...if we are the savior of oppressed countries where there are serious atrocities, cannot pick and choose...I am appalled by our so called christian nation can choose which people to "save".
     
  9. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    one word Logistics! We can't save every country, its not even logical to think in that context. Save the People of Darfur which is isolated or take out a threat in the war on terror and save people at the same time? Did you get this upset at Clinton when he ignored the Congo in the 90's or when he pulled out of Somalia?
     
  10. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think Clinton was wrong about Somalia and the Congo, he and daddy George were wrong about Rwanda...it is not situational cannot rationalize our reasons for being in Iraq, but ignore more serious atrocities in Africa. They were slow in Yugoslavia, wonder it would have been a quicker response if Muslims were raping Serbian woman under the guise of Ethnic Cleansing?? Cannot disregard the process of the UN in the Mideast, but let the UN take care of African needs. You need consistency on all issues when it comes to foreign policy.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2006
  11. BruschiOnTap

    BruschiOnTap On the Game Day Roster

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    If we weren't fighting in Iraq we could feed everyone in Darfur and then the UN wouldn't have had to cut their rations in half...

    If we weren't fighting in Iraq we could provide better aid and guidance to Mexico and maybe they'd all be happier where they are...
     
  12. Turd Furguson

    Turd Furguson Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    So these problems were non existent prior to Iraq?
     
  13. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Do you "sore losers" remember the pictures of the little dead children draped over their dead Mothers bodies covered with vomit,(SADDAMS POISON GAS) do you remember the pictures of the streets and backyards littered with these dead women and children, do you remember the mass graves we have uncovered in Iraq, do you remember the pictures of men being thrown from rooftops screaming to smash like watermelons on the ground below while their families were forced to watch, do you remember the pictures of human beings having their heads sawed off on public television, do you remember the stories of Saddams demented scum sons sodomizing 12 yr old girls while their parents were forced to watch, do you remember the Rape Rooms. Do you "Haters" remember all the other savagery?

    Let Russia, Germany and France handle Darfur, America is busy right now in Iraq.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2006
  14. Patters

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    We ought to be a leader and use our power and wealth to get the UN to build coalitions with the resources needed to tackle difficult problems. Had we done that, we would have been further along in the battle against terrorism that's killing American troops every day and been in a better position to help Africa. Bush is simply in the pocket of the military-industrial and oil industries. His moral compass is driven by greed and ignorance, so we really can't expect him to do anything different in Darfur, especially with a base that is largely made up of people more obsessed about money than about charity.
     
  15. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Harry, don't give us that b.s. You've posted enough here for me to know you couldn't care less about Iraqi babies and women. In fact, your post almost suggests you get some sort of voyeuristic thrill at the kinds of crimes you mentioned. Further, you've shown no sympathy to Iraqi kids being forced to watch their father's being humiliated, the accusations by Amnesty Int'l that the U.S. commits all sorts of abuses including murder, etc.
     
  16. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    If we weren't fighting in Iraq, we could provide food, medical care, housing and education for every American with all that money - and we could secure the borders to boot!
    I don't think that's necessarily the best thing to do, but seeing as how we think it's OK to spend all the money on something...
    Everyone repeat after me - "We are not in charge of the world. We are not the world's mommy. We have many problems at home that we can fix now."
     
  17. mgcolby

    mgcolby Woohoo, I'm a VIP!!! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't know where to begin on this because your statement is so contradicting.

    1. We went to the UN and established what appeared to be a rock solid coalition in the early 90's which led to Iraq being expelled from Kuwait. Then that same coalition along with the UN security council imposed sanction after sanction on Iraq which failed miserably, which we found out later was due to the Greed and Ignorance along with a bad moral compass by many in that very same coalition.

    2. Now you are saying it is the US's fault that the UN is not acting on Darfur? And your solution is to go back to the UN and build another backstabbing coalition with the same countries who were in bed with Iraq from the start, the same people who failed to take care of atrocities in their own backyard. You cannot be serious!

    3. Were the French, Germans, Russians and Chinese more worried about the people of Iraq or were they more concerned with money?

    Once again America = bad, UN = Good

    By the way the UN still hasn’t taken care of the problems in the Balkans they still exist except to the media, they choose to ignore it! So therefore I would bet the majority of Americans do not have a clue that UN (with American Forces) are still “peace keeping†(which means they get shot at by both sides but are not allowed to return fire) in the Balkans.
     
  18. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The sanctions didn't fail miserably. There's no evidence that Iraq was a threat to anyone after the 1991 war. True, companies, even American ones, found loopholes or ignored sanctions, but they still had an affect. I don't think anyone has argued, especially in the wake of 9/11, that sanctions needed to be toughened and tightened, and Bush actually did that at first.

    The UN, despite its flaws, has a degree of international legitimacy and that an individual nation simply cannot have. You are right that it's difficult to work with the UN and build coalitions, but frankly that's the nature of humanity. It's difficult for a family to agree on a vacation, for a city to agree on public works, for a state to agree abortion issues, and so on. It is hard to work with the UN, but the UN is only as strong as its members and if a superpower like the US puts it down and refuses to get involved, it only gets weaker.

    Also, as far as backstabbing goes, let's remember that from the perspective of most of the world, the Iraq war is not about terrorism, it's about American corporate interests. Our war on Iraq deprived France, Russia, and others from lucrative contracts that are now going to mostly American companies. From their perspective, we backstabbed them by making up lies about Saddam and Iraq's WMDs.

    No one's worried about the people of Iraq except the idealists (who are both neocon in some cases and liberal). For the French, Russians Americans, etc., it's about economics. This war is a huge boon to our oil companies and military industrial sector. If you think they have not done what they can to promote this war and prolong this war, then I think you're being a little naive.

    Like I said, the UN is only as strong as its member states, and if the US does not honestly work with and participate in the UN, it is weaker than necessary.
     
  19. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    I doubt the UN attached American forces are being fired on.

    (Libertarian rant to follow)-
    I do agree with your negative opinion of the UN (at least it sounds that way). The UN is a broken down, corrupt, inept organization. US membership in the UN is contradictory to the philosophy of the founding fathers and especially that of George Washington. Talk about your dangerous foreign entanglements. We need to address the problems on our own continent first. We have no business in the Balkans, the middle east, or anywhere else outside of the continent (IMO). Any reliance on the UN as an effective structure for geopolitical problem-solving is lazy and foolish IMO.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2006
  20. mgcolby

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    You honestly believe that Iraq was not a threat to anyone after the 91 war? It wasn't companies it was COUNTRIES that were allowing the loopholes with the help of the UN's leader. How do you trust an international body when the corruption starts at the very top?



    It has international legitimacy to noone, do you think Chavez cares about what the UN thinks, how about Iran they seem to care. They know the europeans have no balls and they only country that will back the resolutions with force is the US which we are to spread out to do right now. Iran realizes this and that is why they are talking so tough. The UN has 0 credibility and it shows on the front pages everyday.

    It deprived them of lucrative contracts that they never should have had and broke international law by having them. How do you not get that? If they didn't backstab us and embolden Saddam we would not have had to go into Iraq. Also lets not forget that the intel agency for every country you listed also believed that Saddam had WMD's. But why let little facts get in the way of anything.



    No kidding it is all about economics and protecting your interests. Which is why nobody cares about Darfur except for the far left liberals who want to use it as a counter argument so that they can try and make the administration that they so badly hate look bad during an election year.



    The US and Britain cannot be the only two countries in the UN that stand by what the UN says. The UN is a waste of time and is absolutely worthless.
     

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