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No charges against SWAT team that killed American hero

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Real World, Nov 30, 2011.

  1. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Where's the outrage? At what point is someone inside the chain of command, or the officers themselves, guilty of a crime? It seems an innocent man was slaughtered in his own home, and no one is going to be punished over it. I find that incredibly disturbing. Not only was this man shot 61 times, but the powers that be lied in saying that they were justified because the victim "fired first". It was later certified that the man didn't fire a shot at all. He couldn't because the weapon he was holding had the safety on. WTF is going on here? Heads should roll over BS like this. :mad:


    One thing I've always wondered, is why we have laws that make crimes against cops more egregious than crimes against ordinary civilians, yet we don't have any laws that makes crimes by cops, more egregious than crimes by ordinary citizens. If it's worse for me to kill a cop, than it is to kill you, shouldn't it be worse when cops break the law, than it is when I do? Good luck with that I guess.


    [​IMG]

    No charges against SWAT team that killed American hero

    Published: 28 November, 2011, 23:09
    Edited: 30 November, 2011, 09:52


    Six months after a SWAT team fired 71 shots at Marine vet Jose Guerena Ortiz while his family watched in their Tucson, Arizona home, no one has been charged with the brutal slaying that left a father, husband and hero dead.

    The Guerena’s were caught by surprise on May 5 of this year by a knock at the door. It was still early in the morning and they weren’t expecting anyone, so Jose, a 27-year-old veteran with two tours of Iraq under his belt, grabbed a gun from their closet while his wife and 4-year-old son hid. Guerena never used the rifle — he didn’t have time. Still unaware of what was happening, Guerena was ambushed by a team of SWAT officers. In seconds they knocked down his door, aimed and fired dozens of times.




    No charges against SWAT team that killed American hero [VIDEO] — RT

    -----------------------------------------------



    Tucson SWAT Team Defends Shooting Iraq Marine Veteran 60 Times - ABC News
  2. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    How do you charge the SWAT guys? They don't do the investigating, they execute the warrants they're told to execute. If I was on that team, had identified myself as a cop with a warrant and busted open the door to find the subject of the warrant with an assault rifle I'd probably shoot too. Now if the department didn't acquire the warrant appropriately and the team was sent wrongly there's a case against whoever sent them.
  3. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    These cops certainly didn't act like professionals, they sound like a bunch of scared rookies.

    I also wonder, when someone knocks on a door how many people in America answer carrying a rifle, does anybody know why this guy answered the door carrying a rifle. was somebody after him, was he into drugs, did he think it was a mountain lion knocking on the door, did he say "who is it" If I was a Cop this guy would have scared the sh!t out of me.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2011
  4. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    well said, RW

    SWAT teams have proliferated throughout the nation, have expanded well beyond their original purpose, and increasingly are responsible for these kinds of killings of citizens and other abuses of people's rights

    part of the problem are the asset seizure laws that enable SWAT teams and other police to essentially become profit centers. They then use that money to grow the teams larger, equip them with even more and more lethal equipment and continue to foster a near-military mindset -- it's a vicious cycle.
  5. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Agreed Chico. Some of the most corrupt entities in the country, are low enforcement agencies. Be that a corruption of ethics, policy, or in this case, of law itself.
  6. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    In the last 25 years, police departments and the courts have turned cops into frightened boys who are unable and unwilling to assume any risk whatsoever. They are macing students and protesters for no reason. They unload 60 shots into one man with a gun. They have to have three cruisers at a traffic stop when the driver has an expired drivers license. I saw a cruiser today speed through a gas station to get around traffic at a light. Nothing ever happens to these azzhats. That's why crap like this keeps happening. There is no "Ooops" when you have 20 armored men with assault weapons. You better get it right. The police are militarized, and that's bad.

    How is this Drug War, which everyone acknowledges is a failure (except the police), still going on? Are police that powerful? Where's our "constitutionalists" on this?
  7. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    I dunno. Maybe go after the guys who fired shots 51-71? Lets start with those adrenaline junkies.
  8. patsfan13

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    I think as Chico said the seizure laws have twisted to law and turned the War on Drugs into a cash cow for Police Depts. That is very bad.
  9. Boston Boxer

    Boston Boxer U.S. Air Force Retired PatsFans.com Supporter

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    i was thinking the same thing...why did he have his wife and kid hiding and why did he answer the door with a rifle. Seems more to the story.
  10. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    There absolutely could be. maybe he was involved in criminal activities. maybe he wasn't, but he had some bad guys who were pissed at him. Or maybe he just lives in a bad area -- Tucson has some pretty dangerous parts. Early AM, not expecting anybody and somebody's at your door? I could see coming to the door armed.

    Regardless, none of that would justify several dozen shots into him and lying about him firing first.

    The more worrisome thing to me is that this simply is not an isolated incident. It happens far too often, and it often occurs when SWAT teams are conducting drug-related searches.
  11. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I was thinking the same thing, plus this guy had 2 tours in Iraq under his belt. PTSD maybe? It's reportedly rampant among Iraq/Afghaistan war vets especially, almost epidemic according to Lisa Ling from NatGeo. Either way after 2 tours in Iraq I'd imagine visitors at the door in the early AM could unnerve him a bit. Of course that's exactly what every SWAT team wants to do, that's why they "attack" in the pre-dawn hours or just at dawn when people are most vulnerable and apt to be momentarily confused or disoriented. Imagine what that does to an Iraq vet? They knew it I'm sure.

    Or maybe he simply saw or heard them drive up, grabbed his rifle just in case, and told his wife and children to hide. Either way that team knew exactly how he'd react and that he'd likely have his rifle in hand so they blew him away with 71 (?) shots. They not only wanted him dead for sure but they also massacred him up like he was Sonny in the Godfather.

    Besides the fact law enforcement has become completely militarized and partly made up of private mercenaries, there's definitely more to this story and that team has some pretty powerful backing as well in order to keep getting away with half the bs they do.
  12. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The police are just small fry in the multi billion dollar Drug War Industry. Ron Paul's been against the Drug War from the beginning as has Dennis Kuchinich, Gary Johnson, and a few others. Actually more than a few politicians have either come out against the entire drug war or have at least acknowledged that it's an epic fail.
  13. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    "ruth take the kids and hide under the bed"
    "ok vinnie, why are you carrying your gun"
    "somebodys at the door"
    "oh"

    America God Shed His Grace On Thee
  14. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    sounds like you and kddp in that thread about the proposed detention legislation

    Which is it -- are you supposed to go down fighting with your gun or not?
  15. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    What do you charge them with? Not shooting him in the leg? I'm not gonna ask a cop to carry a gun and then start second guessing him over making sure the suspect was out of commission. From their perspective this guy was a wanted drug dealer with an assault rifle. He wasn't just some guy who happened to be there, he was the target they'd been assigned.

    I'm not saying they shouldn't be punished, even as far as firing the lot of them and civil charges may be appropriate too; but sending them to jail for being certain the guy was down will lead towards us having a whole lot less cops to count on.
  16. DarrylS

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    My issue is that 71 shots were fired, and 60 hit him.. that is problematic, and indicative of some folks loosing control.
  17. Drewski

    Drewski Rookie

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    No Jersey Selected


    Gross Negligence? 71 shots on one person?!? A little crazy if you ask me. At most it should have taken a tap to the head, or 4 to chest to put this guy out right?

    As for your second point I don't count on cops myself. Why should I trust them more than anyone else? Cuz they have a badge and a shiny car that says "Protect and Serve"?? Yawn.... The cops I know on a personal basis are some of the most corrupt people I know (based on trivial things). Running their lights just to get through traffic (no emergency), tailgating cars to make them spend up only to pull them over. Openly joking about how they drink and drive and they know nothing will happen them. I'm sure there are good ones too obviously, but the ones I know on a personal basis don't scream "count on and trust me". On top of that the ones I have come across in a "business" sense have been no better. Seems to me they are all power hungry midgets who were picked on in HS, and being a cop allows them to "get back at em" (I'm looking at you, 5 foot nothing Statie troll with the puffed out chest who patrols 95 NB weekday mornings ;))

    Anecdotes aside, just because they are cops doesn't give them carte blanche to do what they want, or instant trust from this citizen.
  18. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Cops:
    Neccessary Evil.

    Nobody in law Enforcement or Government wants "Drugs Legalized" NOBODY..
    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    This is a terrible thing to say "But I believe the same goes for the Cancer Cure ($$$$$$$$$$$)
    There's Big Money In The Cancer Business
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2011
  19. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    There was. All you had to do was go to the link to find out.

    At the very least, people should be fired for this. You can't just barge into an innocent man's home, and kill him by firing 71 shots his way, without there being some level of punishment. It's outright BS imo.
  20. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Who knows what the truth is, but I've heard stories from people in the health industry about cancer cures being squashed. One guy told me a story about an invention years ago that used radio waves to cure cancer. It just never got used.

    I agree with your theory.

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