Nnamdi Asomugha

[andrewgarrr]

I was only speculating on the possible reasons why BB did not address the pass rushing issue as much as most people thought he would. I don't think that Crable was the solution - I think you are over-reacting to that statement or misread something.

Don't know his price? Didn't Revis, Bailey, and Routt's contract set the price for top tier CBs? His contract will certainly be north of ten million per season. Maybe, he'll turn down a lot of money to come play for the Patriots - who knows? Or maybe you think BB will break the bank to sign a top-tier free agent? Both not very likely scenarios.

Despite the historical tendencies of the teams personnel decision's, with Bodden coming back and McCourty in his 2nd year, do you think Asomugha will be a $10+ million dollar improvement to the team, considering the repercussions in fulfilling other more pressing needs?

If you think he is then we disagree.

 

[supafly]

The team didn't address the pass-rush issue because they didn't believe there were any players, either through the draft or free agency, that could've fit into the scheme and produced in the way that their contract/salary or draft position would have justified. It would be easy to address the pass rush if there were many options available to the team.

Do you really think Belichick doesn't think a pass rush is important? Or do you think that Belichick doesn't see the pass rush as a problem? I'm betting he does think it is important and that it's lacking has been a crutch to the defense and the team. But there is not an easy way to generate a pass rush because the good 34 DEs and the good 34 OLBs are rare and thus expensive.

Sure, Clay Matthews might've been a solution, but he also may not have fit in here. Who knows? Maybe, BB put too much stock into Crable. So yeah, in recent years the pass rush hasn't been addressed very much, but not addressing it is better than signing another head-case FA (Thomas) or drafting say a Gholston.

But, I don't believe in fixing the pass rush by signing a cornerback to a contract worth 30+ million in guaranteed money. Seems backwards and indirect to me. Will the best CB in the league certainly give our poor pass rushers more time to get the QB? Sure. Will our pass rushers still be poor? Yeah. I think you fix the pass rush by drafting and developing pass rushers, not by signing cornerbacks to monster contracts. (e.g. Cunningham and hopefully future draft picks).

And just because the Patriots have the cap space to sign Nnamdi doesn't mean the team should. Say the Patriots have $20 million dollars in cap-space for the 2011 season. Nnamdi will certainly command $10-15 million dollars of that space. So what kind of players will the team bring in to fill the (1) offensive guard positions (2) outside linebacker (3) offensive tackle? That's four very important positions with only $5-10 million dollars of cap space dedicated to them. And don't forget three of those players are protecting the team's most valuable asset, it's $20 million dollar/season star quarterback.

Of course, Nnamdi is one of the best players at his position in football, and he is still in his prime. But according to the needs of this team, is he really worth 10+ million dollars a season? Is his play going to put the team over the top to get to the Super Bowl? I think not. Or will using that money elsewhere bring a greater benefit to the team? I think so.

Nice post dude. I agree with all of these thoughts pretty much exactly, not to mention that even though we don't exactly have too many (if any) real examples besides Ty Law and Asante Samuel in where they actually knew the system very well etc, and Belichick really still didn't see a huge need at the position. (Not that I am trying to compare one to the other etc) I seriously doubt that Belichick would ever even consider paying an outside guy that amount of money for that particular position. Especially after the great (and extremely 'cheap') year that McCourtey just had.

I'd imagine that someone will give Asomugha around 12/million per, or at the very least, 10+ as you stated.

EDIT: and yes, of course I realize that Asomaugh is way better than both + in his prime, but the theory of BB not putting a ton of money into that position still holds true, at least in my opinion--of course, anything can always happen, but I'm guessing it's an extremely small chance

 

[TealSox]

I'm so confused.

Generally, I would suggest doing the opposite of what Al Davis and the Raiders do. But in this case, if Al Davis thinks the money is better spent on two or more players, I'll agree with him. Only, I wouldn't drop the cash on Routt, Wimbley and Seymour.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

Gone from the elite level. He said they would be back and I'm assuming he meant back to being an elite team, I don't think they ever left that level.

If your talking about what I wrote & what I meant then let me explain it again in English, I MEANT THAT We're (PATS) Are Back HOLDING LOMBARDI TROPHY! Collecting T-Shirts! Got It?! I am in no way shape or form unminding 14-2 record. I'm just sayin with TB's TD/INT Ridiculous season and McCourty comin into his own as a legit CB and 3 headed TE monster tandem along with 3 formidible receivers no bigger than a parking meter and throw in BJGE & Woodhead giving us a decent backfield Pats still lacked a FK'n PASS RUSH! That, IMO was badly needed. TB had to score abizzilian points so that our D had a shot! Our D was nice last year but c'mon it was done with mirrors & high scores covering up alot of holes. BB FK'd up by not getting Julius Peppers throw in Jason Taylor ( BB knows out to get milelage out of old classics) and that makes our DBs that much better.

AND don't put anything past Jets doing off'da wall $ignings since D Revis talked with NA when they were in pro bowl last year about him joining Jets. WAKE UP! Rex Ryan put together an anti-Pats Roster with Cromartie, Tomlinson, Edwards, Taylor any edge he can get to Pats.

So Boys & Girls a re-cap of what i meant........
We're Back......Get a Bonified Pass Rusher, LBs & Asomugha
WE'RE BACK........CHAMPIONS AGAIN!

 

[DaBronxPats14]

You know there will be a salary cap this year right?
Its been proven over and over throughout the FA era that teams that spend a ridiculous amount of the cap on FAs they 'have to have' will fail.
Almost 100% of the time the highest paid FAs do not play as well with their new team as they did before. When the market is set by what you have done and not what you will do, you end up over paying as decline sets in, and in sets in for everyone.
Buying at the peak of skills or after that for the highest price is a sure sign of a poor decision.
No matter how much fans want to ignore it, any player you sign means an equal cost of players must be let go, or bypassed.
It could be argued whether spending 15 mill on one player or spreading that 15 mill over upgrading many other positions (or not having to let players walk) is wiser. But there is no question the data says it isn't even close.
When you add in the fact that we are in pretty good shape at the corner position, it becomes even less wise to choose that spot to overspend at the expense of others.

Yes I do know there'sa salary cap & I do know there may be a partial or no NFL season at all. But sometimes you can't go to bargain rack everytime you have to be aggresive with comp because if you wait you get burned. I agree about our DBs & I know about how nice Bodden is BUT If we can get NA some how That takes pressure off D with that pkg. It rubs off. BB had his chances to up grade pass rush. Youth is cool but we need some experience & Vets also.

 

[Ring 6]

Yes I do know there'sa salary cap & I do know there may be a partial or no NFL season at all. But sometimes you can't go to bargain rack everytime you have to be aggresive with comp because if you wait you get burned. I agree about our DBs & I know about how nice Bodden is BUT If we can get NA some how That takes pressure off D with that pkg. It rubs off. BB had his chances to up grade pass rush. Youth is cool but we need some experience & Vets also.

I think you are mixing up your arguments.
Not signing the most expensive player available is not the same thing as 'going to the bargain racks', in fact it forces you to the bargain racks after that.
Let me give you and example.
If you have a 300 per month budget for dinner, you can go to the grocery store and get nice nutricious healthy meals for your $10 per day.
On the other hand you could go out to the nicest restaurant in town on the first of the month, spend $250 and then eat spaghetti and butter every night for the rest of the month.
You are equating the first option with the 'bargain basement' and the second with some great willingness to spend big money to build a winner.

Under a salary cap, that is the choice. The choice isnt to eat a $10 meal every day AND spend $250 of your $300 on one meal. Sadly, this board is full of posts that call the Patriots cheap for not doing both.

So, lets look at it this way. If you sign NNamdi, you must cut $15,000,000 or so off of the payrolls of other positions. Where do you want to cut that 15 mill that wont hurt us more than upgrading a good competant Bodden to Ashomugha will help us.

Also, its not a choice between youth and veterans. We will have MORE youth if we sign Asomugha, because we will have to cut, or forego signing other veterans and add a bunch of UDFAs to get in under the cap.

 

[Ring 6]

If your talking about what I wrote & what I meant then let me explain it again in English, I MEANT THAT We're (PATS) Are Back HOLDING LOMBARDI TROPHY! Collecting T-Shirts! Got It?! I am in no way shape or form unminding 14-2 record. I'm just sayin with TB's TD/INT Ridiculous season and McCourty comin into his own as a legit CB and 3 headed TE monster tandem along with 3 formidible receivers no bigger than a parking meter and throw in BJGE & Woodhead giving us a decent backfield Pats still lacked a FK'n PASS RUSH! That, IMO was badly needed. TB had to score abizzilian points so that our D had a shot! Our D was nice last year but c'mon it was done with mirrors & high scores covering up alot of holes. BB FK'd up by not getting Julius Peppers throw in Jason Taylor ( BB knows out to get milelage out of old classics) and that makes our DBs that much better.

AND don't put anything past Jets doing off'da wall $ignings since D Revis talked with NA when they were in pro bowl last year about him joining Jets. WAKE UP! Rex Ryan put together an anti-Pats Roster with Cromartie, Tomlinson, Edwards, Taylor any edge he can get to Pats.

So Boys & Girls a re-cap of what i meant........
We're Back......Get a Bonified Pass Rusher, LBs & Asomugha
WE'RE BACK........CHAMPIONS AGAIN!

So your answer is that we sign the most publicized high priced player on the market, Peppers last year, Asomugha this year.

Can you give me an example of any team that has ever worked out for?
Here's a hint, in all those seasons the Redskins were doing that, they never won anything, so that will narrow down your search.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

I think you are mixing up your arguments.
Not signing the most expensive player available is not the same thing as 'going to the bargain racks', in fact it forces you to the bargain racks after that.
Let me give you and example.
If you have a 300 per month budget for dinner, you can go to the grocery store and get nice nutricious healthy meals for your $10 per day.
On the other hand you could go out to the nicest restaurant in town on the first of the month, spend $250 and then eat spaghetti and butter every night for the rest of the month.
You are equating the first option with the 'bargain basement' and the second with some great willingness to spend big money to build a winner.

Under a salary cap, that is the choice. The choice isnt to eat a $10 meal every day AND spend $250 of your $300 on one meal. Sadly, this board is full of posts that call the Patriots cheap for not doing both.

So, lets look at it this way. If you sign NNamdi, you must cut $15,000,000 or so off of the payrolls of other positions. Where do you want to cut that 15 mill that wont hurt us more than upgrading a good competant Bodden to Ashomugha will help us.

Also, its not a choice between youth and veterans. We will have MORE youth if we sign Asomugha, because we will have to cut, or forego signing other veterans and add a bunch of UDFAs to get in under the cap.

I hear ya concept of Mickey D's dollar menu & bein full
As opposed to expensive restaurants & bein full
But sometimes you have to eat good & pay! Brady isn't getting any healthier & younger. I dunno if your saw his frustration this year screaming on sidelines. He had to put up RIDICULOUS TD/INT numbers to offset our D. It's a fact. And yes BB should have paid J Peppers & got Jason Taylor but he dropped'da ball. It's great about our youth movement but you have to get proven vets as well.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

So your answer is that we sign the most publicized high priced player on the market, Peppers last year, Asomugha this year.

Can you give me an example of any team that has ever worked out for?
Here's a hint, in all those seasons the Redskins were doing that, they never won anything, so that will narrow down your search.

Thanx for a hint I was gonna use one of my life lines and call someone but Redskins analogy is accurate & I'm all for how BB's approach is getting more for le$$ but how many times can he go to'da well letting players slip away especially in areas we need. Actually I'm not all about buying every FA available but in this perticular instance IMO BB has to pull'da trigger and $pend.

 

[Ring 6]

I hear ya concept of Mickey D's dollar menu & bein full
As opposed to expensive restaurants & bein full
But sometimes you have to eat good & pay! Brady isn't getting any healthier & younger. I dunno if your saw his frustration this year screaming on sidelines. He had to put up RIDICULOUS TD/INT numbers to offset our D. It's a fact. And yes BB should have paid J Peppers & got Jason Taylor but he dropped'da ball. It's great about our youth movement but you have to get proven vets as well.

I guess you just do not get the cap. You cant spend in one area without cutting others.
Signing Peppers would have meant no Wilfork.
And again, if you sign the highest priced players on the market you get more youth. You seem to be acting as if its a choice of sign Asomugha or sign a bunch of rookies. Thats not the case.

 

[Ring 6]

Thanx for a hint I was gonna use one of my life lines and call someone but Redskins analogy is accurate & I'm all for how BB's approach is getting more for le$$ but how many times can he go to'da well letting players slip away especially in areas we need. Actually I'm not all about buying every FA available but in this perticular instance IMO BB has to pull'da trigger and $pend.

But you didnt give any examples of your idea actually working out.

Its not a matter of 'going to the well' its a philosophy of building a team. Teams that overpay for the a few players have to cut corners elsewhere and do not win.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

But you didnt give any examples of your idea actually working out.

Its not a matter of 'going to the well' its a philosophy of building a team. Teams that overpay for the a few players have to cut corners elsewhere and do not win.

You know what it doesn't really matter, because a player like McCourty will wind up one way or'da other leaving just like every other player that commands top dollar because of his skill talent. BB will not keep anyone that deserves top dollar, period! you don't think that players who would come to Pats know their on borrowed time. A guy like McCourty is dangerous to us because better he gets, he's that much closer to exit.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Spending money on Asomugha is an area we don't need, its like paying Carson Palmer mega bucks to be our backup QB...Neither area is in need and we don't need to be like Crazy Al and spend money foolishly.

Work on LB and OL in both FA and the draft and leave the rest to the draft and FA if there are any vets worth signing in areas of little need but for depth.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

But you didnt give any examples of your idea actually working out.

Its not a matter of 'going to the well' its a philosophy of building a team. Teams that overpay for the a few players have to cut corners elsewhere and do not win.

Your misunderstanding what I'm sayin, I'm talking about using fill in no name players to cut corners and still try to win Example losing to Colts in 2006 AFCCG with that team. Don't give me we we're in it 1st half and it fell apart in second. No it was what it was. Manning picked us apart & dropped passes killed us. so tell me was that team a rebuilding team? That is what you mean about not hittin FA right? Oh yeah so TB was left out there to dry that season & next season I do believe was 2007 and BB $igned Welker Moss Stallworth Kitchen Sink and look where that got us. A perfect season, Playoffs and and in SB Brady as bad as Pats got outplayed he still handed our D lead with under 2 mins left AND it took a "Once ina lifetime 2 plays in 1" Play! BB mixed it up that year. He gave us a chance to win. I'll take my chances comin down to a Hailmary EVERYTIME just give us an oppertunity to win.

 

[sbpatfan]

You know what it doesn't really matter, because a player like McCourty will wind up one way or'da other leaving just like every other player that commands top dollar because of his skill talent. BB will not keep anyone that deserves top dollar, period! you don't think that players who would come to Pats know their on borrowed time. A guy like McCourty is dangerous to us because better he gets, he's that much closer to exit.

Then why are Brady, Wilfork, and Gostkowski with the team? They were all highly paid (if not the highest) for their positions last year. You do realize that there's only so many big contracts to go around, right? It's impossible to keep everyone.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

Spending money on Asomugha is an area we don't need, its like paying Carson Palmer mega bucks to be our backup QB...Neither area is in need and we don't need to be like Crazy Al and spend money foolishly.

Work on LB and OL in both FA and the draft and leave the rest to the draft and FA if there are any vets worth signing in areas of little need but for depth.

Agreed, strong points on areas need to be addressed With that said, Not like C Palmer backin up TB I'm not sold on our DBs holding there own against above avg passing teams when TB doesn't put up 21 pts in 1st qtr. If we could get Asomugha somehow some way and it didn't hurt us Cap/draft wise I'd welcome that especially with teams getting better in Passing Game. With McCourty & Bodden Boasts a Nasty DB combo. That was my point starting thread. IF IT WAS POSSIBLE.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

Then why are Brady, Wilfork, and Gostkowski with the team? They were all highly paid (if not the highest) for their positions last year. You do realize that there's only so many big contracts to go around, right? It's impossible to keep everyone.

True, Cap is always factored in but when time is right to strike and there is cap space some players need to be signed.