Nice Win...small concern about WR's

Discussion in ' - Patriots Fan Forum' started by NG Pats Fan, Nov 22, 2011.

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  1. NG Pats Fan

    NG Pats Fan On the Game Day Roster

    34-3! Move to 7-3, # 1 seed in the AFC currently. :D

    As you guys know, I am a huge wide receiver fan, so bare with me because that's pretty much what I love to talk about :D

    I have a few thoughts regarding our WRs.

    Chad Johnson- Nice skills but past his prime/very unreliable
    Deion Branch- Smart/Clutch but old and painfully slow
    Wes Welker- Best slot WR in the game, but he is not a # 1 WR
    Taylor Price- Potential this, potential that. What has he ever done?

    I would really like to see the patriots get younger, taller, faster at WR before next season. I would love to see them get an elite playmaking deep threat at WR or draft a big, talented young # 1 WR in the draft. I think that's our only missing piece on the offense. We have the NFL's ultimate animal in Gronkowski, and an electrifying playmaker in Hernandez. I think if we cleanup our WR core and add compliments to Wes Welker, we will be unstoppable.

    I like our offense going forward, but I fear our WR's not getting separation in the playoffs and getting jammed at the line of scrimmage.
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011
  2. Texxx

    Texxx Practice Squad Player

    Personally I think that getting a really dominant player at the RB position would be a better move. I think the Pats could still find a guy or two to add to the WR core in the off season that BRady can make over achieve as a WR like he has with so many others in the past. Adding a really serious threat at the RB position that teams have to respect from a power running standpoint to me would do a lot for this offense to where Brady could work with more play action packages that teams have to respect more. I like the combo of Woody and Green Ellis and all, but they could definitely use an upgrade.
  3. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    We need a physical man-beater that can work the outside and deep zones, I vote for Vincent Jackson!
  4. Sicilian

    Sicilian Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    I wouldn't get too excited about any offensive skill position player getting picked in the 1st round. My guess (premature as this is given where we are in the season) is we're going O-Line (specifically C), D-Line, or Safety. Whichever has the best available player at our spot.
  5. patriot lifer

    patriot lifer In the Starting Line-Up

    #87 Jersey

    Not to open up this can of worms so early, but i think a lot of this will depend on what type of defense we're running next year. If it's a 3-4, then OLB is a huge need. And what will become of a player like Andre Carter?

    but that's a discussion for next offseason :)
  6. NG Pats Fan

    NG Pats Fan On the Game Day Roster

    I think it's an absolute waste of a first round pick to use on a center. Center is by far the easiest position on offense.

    We drafted Vollmer/Solder. Why would we ever go Tackle?

    We have Mankings and drafted Cannon. Why would we ever go Gaurd?

    We can pick up a good center in round 3

    O-Line is the least of our problems in my opinion
  7. ALP

    ALP Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    i would agree, and also disagree

    say we add 2 WR playmakers for next year, one a deep threat, and another an Andre/Calvin type of big,tall,physical WR type

    our ONLY weakness would then be the O-line, and whenever we struggle in games, it is usually the O-line that is to blame

    i cannot say exactly what requires the upgrade, but they just play like **** for whole halfs or whole games sometimes and its completely annoying

    for the offense what i want is a big/tall WR, and a fast WR

    QB is set, TE is set

    i would not invest in another RB, the ones we have are good, and in all honesty while Brady is at the helm it is obvious we will never truly be dedicated to a running game, so we might as well stop wanting a playmaker at the RB position, we just need a guy(s) who will gain 4 yards consistently....
  8. DarrylS

    DarrylS Supporter Supporter

    BJGE has a 4.0 yards per carry for this year, but has been somewhat hampered by a turf toe.. and best of all, has never fumbled.

    Very encouraged in what Ridley and Vereen have shown..
  9. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    #22 Jersey

    I think this is a discussion for much further in the future like when the season is done but what the hell I will play anyway.

    I think it is real simple. Tom Brady, Gronk, Welker, and Hernandez are your offense and as long as the Oline is good this enough to have one of the best offenses in the league.

    As far as next year and improving this offense I think you do that in a few ways. First BJGE returns and Vareen and Ridley step up to improve the overall rushing attack. Keep Woodhead and maybe bring in one more set of legs (depends on how Vareen and Ridley respond in the offseason). No priority.

    WRs. Cant let Welker go or you need big offseason moves. So priority retain Welker. Then I would do two things I would bring in another young kid to compete with Price and Edelman for the two bottom spots on WR depth (hopefully one of the three steps up big but if not you are still good and one would be gone). Second I would replace Ocho with a vet who hopefully would grasp the system better and be the legitimate other option we hoped Chad would be. I dont care about size or deep threat as I think that is overplayed just someone who can push Branch a little further down the depth and be productive consistantly. Sure it would be great to have a Megatron type but realistically speaking there is a need for a consitant option but not a need for Megatron (other than the obvious It would be great to have the best at all 22 positions but just isnt possible) .
    No need for big overhaul and no need to think this would be a position of importance this offseason (assuming Welker is back).

    I think that with the young TEs, young RBs, and Young OLinemen, we really are pretty well set on offense other than a few minor complimentary pieces to add and you should be one of the best Os again next year. I think this is awesome because it means we can really focus on D and maybe add Two first rounders to the D and Add our top FA move to the D as well.
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011
  10. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    Not really a comment about the overall topic, but really just an observation from last night. Not really a great indication to illustrate your point.

    His entire career, Brady always takes what the defense gives him. Last night, KC obviously took a page from the Squeelers playbook (albeit with a much inferior defense) and tried to play much more press on our WRs. There wasn't a lot there for them.

    However, it left a ton of room our there for TE's and Gronk (and AaHa to a lessor extent) were running free pretty much. They were consistently mismatched on the field and TFB made them pay, as he usually does.

    So, while an top-flight elite WR may or may not needed, last night isn't a great illustration of that point. This offense evolves around Brady's ability to 1) understand what the defense is trying to do, and 2) exploit it and make it work against them. When the OL keeps him upright, he almost ALWAYS does exactly that.

    Last night is a textbook example of that. Certainly moreso the exposing a "glaring need" at WR.
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011
  11. Metaphors

    Metaphors In the Starting Line-Up

    The Pats seem content to work matchups and place less focus on traditional WR/DB battles. The key is knowing when to take advantage of coverage gaps against the outside receivers...which Brady did well against the Jets but not so much in the other games in the last month or so. I see a couple of issues in the short-term:

    1) Branch and Ocho are effectively the same receiver. It is difficult to play them together because they don't force coverage choices. Man press with single high safety should be able to do it. That leaves 4 defenders to cover the remaining 3 receivers with the safety helping deep. Not what you are looking for. Ideal is to have someone across from Branch that keeps the attention of the safety.

    2) Not enough production from the RBs in the passing game. If BJGE can get 25 yds on a screen, imagine what Woodhead or Vereen could do. At this point, might as well save it for the playoffs since the "blueprint" defense since the Cowboys game essentially doesn't account for the RB in pass routes.

    3) Attacking the edges needs to be part of every drive. Even if it doesn't result in huge gains, it keeps the defenders from consolidating between the numbers. Also makes a single high safety less effective since they have too much ground to cover to affect the play.

    I'm thinking Vereen is the wildcard in all these situations. Imagine a formation with Vereen, Welker, Gronk and Hernandez along with a WR or 3rd TE. Go base and the Pats spread everyone to get Vereen on a LB. Go nickel and bunch the formation to let Vereen run with TEs blocking DBs...or play action with Gronk/Hernandez slipping out into pass routes.
  12. Sicilian

    Sicilian Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Again this is too early to say now, but Vollmer is having injury concerns this year related to back problems he had prior to entering the NFL (unless I'm mistaken). I'm not saying he's going to suddenly become glass, but with Light really only having one year left, if there's a stud T and Vollmer is questionable, that's a move the pats MIGHT make.

    Cannon, who I like and am rooting for, has now played what? 5 snaps in garbage time? I'm not ready to anoint him the heir to Waters yet. If he continues great, if not, OG is an area that can be improved.

    You're probably right that we can find a center later in the draft, but the key words in my post were Best Player Available. If there's a center BB really likes in round 1, and he's clearly rated higher than the other positions available, a great center to take over for Koppen in a year could be a smart pick.

    None of these things are priorities, but if the talent is there you take the talent.
  13. robbomango

    robbomango In the Starting Line-Up

    #12 Jersey

    WR discussions are always fun, nothing wrong with looking at creating more dimension on offense besides we look set at RB and TE.

    I'd like a player like Wallace who can give you the short medium and long ball. right now it looks like we have no #3 guy at WR all, 11 receptions for option 3 is a bit tragic.

    our special teams needs to get us better field position to compensate for the lack of a deep threat to move us down the field. we don't need a field stretcher in the red area with our TE, WR and RB's.

    Our redzone crew is clutch we just need to get to the 20-30 yrd line and we're gold.
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011
  14. Who are the projected stud players when we draft?

    BB has alreadt said that WR is the toughest to project at this level. I bet we would go the free agent route.

    If Pryor could stay healthy, Deaderick and Pryor would be very credible with pressure. I bet Dline would be priority #1.
  15. Jangles

    Jangles Supporter Supporter

    This isn't a small concern.

    All of the recent losses have looked exactly the same. Rough up the midgets on the line, the clog the middle of the field. We don't have a deep threat. So imagine the advantage the defense has when they don't have to really worry about anything more than 20 yards out.

    We absolutely have to find a playmaking WR to compliment the skill set of our existing offense. If we don't, this team is going to fade fast as what we have ages.
  16. robbomango

    robbomango In the Starting Line-Up

    #12 Jersey

    My father recently had a successful double hand transplant, It made me dream of a leg transplant for #83

    Welker with 6 more inches would be the ultimate WR/football player the nfl has ever seen.
  17. mgteich

    mgteich Veteran Supporter

    I generally agree with your analysis of 2012. The need on offense at WR.
    1) CENTER. We could re-sign Koppen or Connolly. We are alos likely to use a draft choice.
    2) RUNNING BACK. We will re-sign Green-Ellis or bring in yet another running back. However, we should be fine with Ridley, Varreen and Woodhead. Folks underestimate the value of Green-Ellis to us. He has NEVER fumbled.
    A) Welker is a free agent.
    B) Branch and Ochocinco are on the downside of their careers. I would think that we should count on one of them at most for 2012.
    C) Edelman is our #5 WR and the backup in the slot. We can count on Edelman to continue in these roles next year.
    D) Price may be a factor in 2012, or not.

    Welker will be re-signed. Ochocinco will be back, but not Branch. Edelman will be back.
    We need to bring in at least two receivers.

  18. PatsFan2

    PatsFan2 In the Starting Line-Up

    #87 Jersey

    Hiting on WR's in the NFL Draft is feast or famine...some teams do it well some teams like the *coughs* N.E. do it not so well.:snob: Knowing that i could see them going the route knowing they have done a terrible job developing them is, let some other Team develop them in Four Years and they sign them via Free Agency. Which brings me to my point FA 2012 is Great year for WR's the Patriots should be able to get two from this bunch...of course i am assuming Wes Welker will be locked up before then.

    2011 Contract Year Players / 2012 NFL Free Agents: WRs

    Guys i wouldn't mind one or two of them.

    Jordy Nelson

    Eddie Royal

    Mario Manningham

    Robert Meachem

    Marques Colston

    Early Doucet

    Earl Bennett

    I can dream can't i?

    Vincent Jackson

    Steve Johnson

    Dwayne Bowe

    Pierre Garcon

    Mike Wallace = We selected Brandon Tate one pick before him.:snob::rolleyes:
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011
  19. Jangles

    Jangles Supporter Supporter


    but real receivers.

    No more 5'8" route runners.
  20. mgteich

    mgteich Veteran Supporter

    17 Taylor Price WR
    Height: 6-0 Weight: 205
    Year: R Yrs/Pat: 1
    Acquired: D3-2010 (90th overall)
    School: Ohio University
    Born: Oct 8, 1987

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