Nice one Tony

[Metaphors]

I think Dungy is sanctimonious and an iffy-at-best Christian (due to his homphobia), but there is simply NO WAY he's putting a player in a dangerous situation. The NFL wouldn't let him, either. This is a non-story and a silly thread unworthy of this site.

This seems a little naive to me. If Dungy thought that Jackson or Keiaho were at enhanced risk of a dangerous injury on Sunday, I agree he wouldn't put them on the field regardless of the game. The danger is not immediate though. Dungy won't be coaching when these guys would be dealing with the potential fallout from multiple concussions in a short period of time.

I have no idea if Jackson or Keiaho are going to go down with a concussion on Sunday and I really hope they don't. But if they do, they are one step closer to some potentially severe consequences down the road.

As for the NFL policing this, that really is naive. The doctors that give the player clearance to play (the only safeguard in the equation) are team/NFL sponsored and are using guidelines that are at odds with recent studies.

This was a fairly big story earlier this year so I'm not sure why it would be a non-story now.

 

[Mike the Brit]

In rugby, a player diagnosed with a concussion is prohibited from playing for three weeks -- no exceptions, no discretion. If the NFL were serious about protecting players' health (and the NFLPA were doing its job of advancing players' interests) it would have the same rule. Leaving the decision in the hands of coaches and team doctors leads to an unacceptable conflict of interests.

 

[los1sol]

In rugby, a player diagnosed with a concussion is prohibited from playing for three weeks -- no exceptions, no discretion. If the NFL were serious about protecting players' health (and the NFLPA were doing its job of advancing players' interests) it would have the same rule. Leaving the decision in the hands of coaches and team doctors leads to an unacceptable conflict of interests.

You know what, that's an interesting rule. I agree, the NFL should have something in place similar to that. One potential problem is that coaches might be tempted to not report concussions for fear of losing their player.

 

[PATSNUTme]

I'm not a doctor but I did have one date with a girl who was going to Med School. She dropped out later.

My opinion is that if the doctors say the kid can play then it's OK with me. thank you for listening.

 

[CTPatsFan]

I wonder. Players are certainly bigger, stronger and faster today, but underreporting was absolutely rampant in the past.

It's kind of like the statistics that show that child abuse skyrocketed after laws were tightened up and attention drawn to it. Of course the real change was that people were bothering to report abuse to the authorities--beating up your kids was no longer considered OK. Today, teams are finally starting to realize that returning to a football game with a concussion isn't OK.

BTW, having absolutely no knowledge of Jackson's health status, I have absolutely no opinion on this particular situation.

You may be right 'chick, it may just be a reporting issue not unlike abuse, shark attacks, MRSA, etc. They are always there in some capacity but once they get repeated in the media they become a big story.

But I do think your first point about the players being bigger, faster and stronger has a lot to do with it though since while the players have "improved" physically the skull, brain and cerebrospinal fluid haven't gotten any more protective.

 

[Mike the Brit]

You know what, that's an interesting rule. I agree, the NFL should have something in place similar to that. One potential problem is that coaches might be tempted to not report concussions for fear of losing their player.

That's where doctors come in.

From what I can understand, team doctors have a heavy responsibility for what has gone on in the NFL in the past. A doctor's first responsibility is to his or her patient, though. If the league had a clear policy on concussion, I'd be surprised if any would now go as far as concealing a diagnosis -- not least because, if it ever came out, the legal consequences would be enormous.

 

[CTPatsFan]

That's where doctors come in.

From what I can understand, team doctors have a heavy responsibility for what has gone on in the NFL in the past. A doctor's first responsibility is to his or her patient, though. If the league had a clear policy on concussion, I'd be surprised if any would now go as far as concealing a diagnosis -- not least because, if it ever came out, the legal consequences would be enormous.

Seriously, we need only look as far as Ted Johnson to see the effects. Both from concealing diagnosis to the player just wanting back in.

 

[shmessy]

This is a non-story and a silly thread unworthy of this site.

So tell us why NFL.com is reporting on it?

 

[He Ban Me]

This seems a little naive to me. If Dungy thought that Jackson or Keiaho were at enhanced risk of a dangerous injury on Sunday, I agree he wouldn't put them on the field regardless of the game. The danger is not immediate though. Dungy won't be coaching when these guys would be dealing with the potential fallout from multiple concussions in a short period of time.

I have no idea if Jackson or Keiaho are going to go down with a concussion on Sunday and I really hope they don't. But if they do, they are one step closer to some potentially severe consequences down the road.

As for the NFL policing this, that really is naive. The doctors that give the player clearance to play (the only safeguard in the equation) are team/NFL sponsored and are using guidelines that are at odds with recent studies.

This was a fairly big story earlier this year so I'm not sure why it would be a non-story now.

Supposedly, the team has a test they give the players at the beginning of the year (baseline test). If they suffer head trauma, they are required to take this test again, and pass it (using the baseline as the standard) before they are cleared to play.

In the end, I still think that regardless of how you answer, there should be a minimum time frame to sit before you are allowed to return.

 

[spacecrime]

Are you a doctor or did you just pull 2 weeks out of your ass?

When all the pubicity broke on concussions, neurologists strongly recommended that players not play the following week. That is two weeks off. That was a minimum, of course. The player would still have to be cleared.

What if I say 3 weeks

As Metaphors said, and I agree, at least two weeks. So three weeks off is fine.

or 1 week? Or two days?

Not enough time. See above.

Are those numbers any more or less real than your two weeks?

Yes, those numbers are more real, at least to neurologists.

The rule is nobody goes in with a concussion until a doctor clears them.

That's the NFL rule, not what neurologists recommend. There are a lot of injuries you can suck up and play with. Concussions aren't one of them. THe NFL rule needs to be changed. Just because it is an NFL rule does not mean it was right. A couple years ago horsecollar tackles were legal, and so was hitting a QB below the knees.

The facts are that there is a greater chance of having another concussion after having one, that the less amount of time after the last one, the greater the chance of having another one, and the shorter the time span between concussions, the greater the chance for permanent injury.

We don't know the specifics of any NFL players concusssion, or even if they had a concussion. We are simply expressing concern. I don't beileve Dungy would put a player in before it is safe. It's Polian I would not trust.

 

[Pujo]

That's fine, spacecrime, but I don't expect Dungy to go above-and-beyond the rules and not play a player that team doctors have cleared. I wouldn't mind the NFL adopting a tougher concussion policy, but blaming this on Dungy is crap. Belichick did the same thing with Ted Johnson.

 

[ColtinIraq]

I can understand why Marlin Jackson playing would bother you.

 

[BradyFTW!]

That's fine, spacecrime, but I don't expect Dungy to go above-and-beyond the rules and not play a player that team doctors have cleared. I wouldn't mind the NFL adopting a tougher concussion policy, but blaming this on Dungy is crap. Belichick did the same thing with Ted Johnson.

I don't think anyone here is trying to say that Tony Dungy is the 'bad guy' and Bill Belichick is the 'good guy'. As you pointed out, Belichick's record on this issue is far from clean. The difference, to me, is that Belichick has never tried to come off as a person who is above the barbaric nature of the NFL, while Dungy's "quiet strength" bull**** sets him up as a hyprocrite in this situation.

Every coach in the league is guilty of looking the other way on these types of things; Duny is just one of the few (maybe the only one) who would have you think that he isn't.

 

[jaytyme]

Totally and completely bogus. If you get a concussion, you shouldn't return to action for at least 2 weeks...regardless of the severity. Keiaho suffered a concussion a month ago, missed the TB game, then had a bye, played against JAX, suffered a setback (supposedly in practice), missed the CAR game and is expected to play against the Pats. I'm sure Keiaho was "OK" after 2 weeks and look at him now.

I think most of the junk thrown at Dungy on this board is crap, but these decisions are all his. He played and he knows the potential outcome for players with repeated concussions...and we are just discussing KNOWN concussions. How many times has Keiaho or Jackson or any other player gotten their "bell rung" and just shook it off?

People shouldn't be drooling in their oatmeal when their kids are getting ready for middle school. All coaches, including Belichick, have to take personal responsibility for this. The culture of concussions (knowledge and awareness) has changed and that just raises the responsibility.

The doctors giving clearance for these players work for the NFL. The NFL has made it clear that a player suffering a concussion can return IN THE SAME GAME if he can pass basic cognitive testing...which is contradictory to every other medical opinion on the planet.

Dungy knows this. Belichick knows this. Everybody knows this. Sending a player out who has had 2 concussion-related incidents in a month (Keiaho) and another who is practicing 3 days after getting knocked out of a game with a concussion (Jackson) is risking their long-term health. If you question this, you don't know what you are talking about.

So these players are Dungy's responsibility on Sunday and no amount of team doctors and their medical clearance can change that. If they do play, I really hope they avoid any jarring hits. The worst case scenario is too high a price for any game...even this one.

i just heard jaworski say he suffered over 20 concussions while playing
if his play analysis can be considered "drooling in his oatmeal" we should all be so lucky.

lighten up francis

 

[BradyFTW!]

Anyone have a link to that Wayne Chrebet article hanging around? If Jaworski has suffered over 20 concussions, then that's good for him, but it would definitely make him a hell of an anomaly.

 

[ColtinIraq]

I don't think anyone here is trying to say that Tony Dungy is the 'bad guy' and Bill Belichick is the 'good guy'. As you pointed out, Belichick's record on this issue is far from clean. The difference, to me, is that Belichick has never tried to come off as a person who is above the barbaric nature of the NFL, while Dungy's "quiet strength" bull**** sets him up as a hyprocrite in this situation.

Every coach in the league is guilty of looking the other way on these types of things; Duny is just one of the few (maybe the only one) who would have you think that he isn't.

Let me ask you something. Have you even read the book? Maybe even the book jacket? Or any review? Didn't think so.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Let me ask you something. Have you even read the book? Maybe even the book jacket? Or any review? Didn't think so.

No, I haven't, because I haven't had to. Dungy's sanctimonious crap is by no means limited to what was written in that book; it just happens to have a catchy title. He was the one that was taking shots at Belichick for his "win at all costs" attitude, but how can the same not be true about him if he's playing players that are at a signficant risk for head trauma, only because the rules don't tell him he can't.

Once again, I'm not saying he's the only one that does it, he's just been the most aggressive in saying that he wouldn't sink to such means.

 

[Metaphors]

i just heard jaworski say he suffered over 20 concussions while playing
if his play analysis can be considered "drooling in his oatmeal" we should all be so lucky.

lighten up francis

I don't get your point. Are you saying that players with concussions should continue to play without consequence? At least until the 21st one? This is bizarre considering this hits pretty close to home with Ted Johnson.

Seriously...is 10 your age or IQ?

 

[Metaphors]

Supposedly, the team has a test they give the players at the beginning of the year (baseline test). If they suffer head trauma, they are required to take this test again, and pass it (using the baseline as the standard) before they are cleared to play.

In the end, I still think that regardless of how you answer, there should be a minimum time frame to sit before you are allowed to return.

Agree. This isn't a Pats vs. Colts or Dungy vs. Belichick thing. I don't want to see Jackson or Keiaho miss the game, but I also don't want to see either of them staggering off the field.

Since I don't know much about Jackson's history, there may not be much cause for concern (though 1 week seems a little quick)...but if Keiaho has had multiple concussion-related incidents in the last month, that might be cause for concern. Hopefully the powers that be are taking this seriously and not letting the game get in the way of good judgement.

 

[He Ban Me]

Agree. This isn't a Pats vs. Colts or Dungy vs. Belichick thing. I don't want to see Jackson or Keiaho miss the game, but I also don't want to see either of them staggering off the field.

Since I don't know much about Jackson's history, there may not be much cause for concern (though 1 week seems a little quick)...but if Keiaho has had multiple concussion-related incidents in the last month, that might be cause for concern. Hopefully the powers that be are taking this seriously and not letting the game get in the way of good judgement.

Agree, obviously as a Colt fan, I want our best guys in, but not at the expense of long term damage. To be sure, I was VERY SURPISED that Keiaho came back as quickly as he did. Sat out the Tampa Game (IIRC), then the bye. Played at Jax, then supposedly had a collision in practice before the Panther game, and Post Concussion Syndrome was "revealed". Utecht had one too. I understand that there are probably "minor" and "severe" cases, but the statistics show that the closer two concussions are (time wise), the more serious the potential long term damage is. I just don't see why you take a chance, AND I wish these guys would wear those foam caps. I assume that "helmet technology" is improving, but it sounds like there is a way to go.

In the end, I wonder if the league is really cracking down, or just paying lip service.