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Ngata, Hall or Asomugha?


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Asking for your support
 

who would you take in a perfect world

  • Haloti Ngata

    Votes: 42 68.9%
  • Tambi Hall

    Votes: 11 18.0%
  • Nnamdi Asomugha

    Votes: 8 13.1%

  • Total voters
    61
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
Although I wouldn't pick him, imagine our secondary if we signed Asomugha. With him covering one side and McCourty covering the other that'd be pretty immense.

I'm torn between Ngata and Hali. From a purely theoretical standpoint I've got to give it to Ngata, the man is a beast, but I just don't see a situation in which the Ravens let him go

As good as it would be to get Asomugha, when we get Bodden back the CB position should be covered.
 
There's no question that Ngata would be an absolute beast in this system.

Consider this defense if you will.

Ngata 6'4 350
Wilfork 6'2 325
Brace 6'3 330

Now try running on that DL. Yeah....
Too bad the Ravens aren't dumb enough to let Ngata go. He would be a great fit here.

brady and wilfork's salary goes up next year, both players were in their last years of their old deals and were extended with new ones, you save about 3 million dollars from moss but the rest goes to branch with his deal.

Actually Branch restructured his deal when coming over from the Seahawks so I think he is making a lot less than Moss did.
Branch contract restructured, but Welker not talking contract - Projo Pats Blog
 
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Why is everyone so sure about Ngata breaking the bank in Baltimore?

One thing that seems to get overlooked is that the other top AFC teams....Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Indianapolis, Jests are all on pace for their windows closing. All these teams are filled with players that are on the wrong side of 30.

Look at Pittsburgh. Hardly anyone is under 32.

Baltimore drafted that fat kid out of Alabama. Ngata is their best player but he also seems to have a replacement. If Ngata can be turned into two players, he can go.
 
Why is everyone so sure about Ngata breaking the bank in Baltimore?

One thing that seems to get overlooked is that the other top AFC teams....Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Indianapolis, Jests are all on pace for their windows closing. All these teams are filled with players that are on the wrong side of 30.

Look at Pittsburgh. Hardly anyone is under 32.

Baltimore drafted that fat kid out of Alabama. Ngata is their best player but he also seems to have a replacement. If Ngata can be turned into two players, he can go.

Dude, "Mount Cody" doen't even play football. He is so fat he just falls over and takes out a lineman if he's lucky...2 linemen if a second one mistakes Cody for a contestant from the biggest loser and is distracted.
 
Dude, "Mount Cody" doen't even play football. He is so fat he just falls over and takes out a lineman if he's lucky...2 linemen if a second one mistakes Cody for a contestant from the biggest loser and is distracted.

Dude

So they are so stupid they expend a second round pick? If he's hopeless why hasn't he been cut yet?

I guess this went over your head. What part of "aging" missed? Ed Reed is talking retirement...who is the replacement?

The Ravens core players are 30+. Look at their receivers, LB's, Ed Reed...and their line sucks. In a year or two they need several players for wholesale replacement.

The Steelers are in the same situation as well as the Jets. They will also be looking for the same type of players.

Dumping tons of money on one guy will not solve the problem. Neither will the draft in the next few years.

For instance, would they listen and entertain a Ngata for Mankins and the early 3rd/ late 2nd scenario if Ngata and Mankins are franchised.
 
Dude

So they are so stupid they expend a second round pick? If he's hopeless why hasn't he been cut yet?

I guess this went over your head. What part of "aging" missed? Ed Reed is talking retirement...who is the replacement?

The Ravens core players are 30+. Look at their receivers, LB's, Ed Reed...and their line sucks. In a year or two they need several players for wholesale replacement.

The Steelers are in the same situation as well as the Jets. They will also be looking for the same type of players.

Dumping tons of money on one guy will not solve the problem. Neither will the draft in the next few years.

For instance, would they listen and entertain a Ngata for Mankins and the early 3rd/ late 2nd scenario if Ngata and Mankins are franchised.

where do I have to sign?

Ngata, Wilfork + 1st rounder...how awesome would that look man?!
 
where do I have to sign?

Ngata, Wilfork + 1st rounder...how awesome would that look man?!

Way too much emotion is going into the threads based on last Sunday. The point on these guys is top tier talent will always be influenced by the franchise tag because teams want return for talent.

Teams with multiple needs more likely will be better served having two good players vs one better player. This includes our main AFC competition because they are all old.


Also, if the 18 game schedule comes into play, "team building" will be much more important.

This will drive the more good/ players flexibility concept.
 
Its Ngata even a question in my mind.
 
I'm tempted to say Ngata, but I would go with Hali. Outside pass rushing presence that can contain the run and play the elephant role for our defense the way McGinest used to.
 
Why is everyone so sure about Ngata breaking the bank in Baltimore?

One thing that seems to get overlooked is that the other top AFC teams....Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Indianapolis, Jests are all on pace for their windows closing. All these teams are filled with players that are on the wrong side of 30.

Look at Pittsburgh. Hardly anyone is under 32.

Baltimore drafted that fat kid out of Alabama. Ngata is their best player but he also seems to have a replacement. If Ngata can be turned into two players, he can go.

The Jets' window is closing?

Their QB Sanchez is 24, getting better, and has won all but one of his playoff games -- and they've all been on the road.

Revis - the best defensive player in football - is 25 and locked up.
Shonn Greene is 25 and looks like a pretty good back -- much better than Maroney was at this stage.

Mangold is 26, one of the top centers in the league, and locked up.

D'Brickashaw is 27 and a pretty good LT and locked up.

Harris is 27 and will likely be re-signed and is someone that could play for me any day. Very underrated, doesn't talk a lot, just does his job. He's just as good as Mayo, maybe better because he actually makes plays and doesn't just tackle.

Holmes is 26 and one of the clutchest WR's out there, and Edwards is 27 and a screw ball but has played well this year. At least one of them will be kept, probably Holmes.

Cromartie is 26 and will likely be re-signed. As much as you think he's a scumbag, he's an excellent #2 CB to have and would be a #1 on many teams. Revis and him are the best CB tandem in football.

Ducasse is a project but an athletic lineman that many people around here liked for the OL.

Keller is 26 and a nice receiving TE that has given us trouble on numerous occasions.

Kyle Wilson was a highly rated corner coming out of Boise. He hasn't played much this year, but it's hard going from Boise St to playing in the slot in Rex Ryan's scheme where you are left out to dry a lot of times. Hopefully he's a bust, but people were talking about him going in the top 15-20 last year.

That seems like a pretty good young core to build around to me. They need some help at safety since Pool has underwhelmed, on the DL since Jenkins blew out his knee again and Ellis is getting old, and potentially at OLB since Pace and Thomas have not lit it up. But I'd say they are set up for the future quite well. Maybe not set up as well as us with all our draft picks, but still enough to compete with us at an intense level.

They can't keep everyone that's due for a new contract, but they have a decent amount of money coming off. They'll re-sign a few key young guys, they still have their first round draft pick. I think the Cromartie trade will escalate into them giving up a 2nd instead of a 3rd, but Cromartie has played well for them for the majority of the season.

Guys like Jason Taylor and LT were signed for this year. Taylor has no guaranteed money coming to him next year and will be cut or retire. Even if he's cut, there's no dead money. If LT is cut, the Jets will be hit with 875,000 worth of dead money. Oh the horror.

Also add in the fact that older vets looking for a shot at the Super Bowl will take a "discount" to play in NY, just like guys like Seau and others did when NE was the cream of the crop in the AFC. You can't even deny that. The Jets have made the AFC Championship two years in a row under Rex. Rex is a player's coach - he stands up for them, he instills confidence in them, and players love being around him because he likes to have fun but also wins. So just like we used to be able to play the card of "taking less money to come here and play for a contender and get your ring", the Jets now can play that card too.

The Jets are here to compete for a while. They aren't just going to go away. Belichick waited a little too long to start rebuilding the defense, but I like what he's done over the past few years. We are starting to build a nice foundation with some good solid young players, and now we need to start adding difference makers and playmakers. Time to move up and get some elite talent for this defense. The Brady window is only getting smaller.

And by the way, the Ravens drafted Mt. Cody to replace Kelly Gregg, who is the Ravens' NT on most plays. He is 34 years old and his contract is up at the end of this season.
 
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The Jets' window is closing?

Their QB Sanchez is 24, getting better, and has won all but one of his playoff games -- and they've all been on the road.

Revis - the best defensive player in football - is 25 and locked up.
Shonn Greene is 25 and looks like a pretty good back -- much better than Maroney was at this stage.

Mangold is 26, one of the top centers in the league, and locked up.

D'Brickashaw is 27 and a pretty good LT and locked up.

Harris is 27 and will likely be re-signed and is someone that could play for me any day. Very underrated, doesn't talk a lot, just does his job. He's just as good as Mayo, maybe better because he actually makes plays and doesn't just tackle.

Holmes is 26 and one of the clutchest WR's out there, and Edwards is 27 and a screw ball but has played well this year. At least one of them will be kept, probably Holmes.

Cromartie is 26 and will likely be re-signed. As much as you think he's a scumbag, he's an excellent #2 CB to have and would be a #1 on many teams. Revis and him are the best CB tandem in football.

Ducasse is a project but an athletic lineman that many people around here liked for the OL.

Keller is 26 and a nice receiving TE that has given us trouble on numerous occasions.

Kyle Wilson was a highly rated corner coming out of Boise. He hasn't played much this year, but it's hard going from Boise St to playing in the slot in Rex Ryan's scheme where you are left out to dry a lot of times. Hopefully he's a bust, but people were talking about him going in the top 15-20 last year.

That seems like a pretty good young core to build around to me. They need some help at safety since Pool has underwhelmed, on the DL since Jenkins blew out his knee again and Ellis is getting old, and potentially at OLB since Pace and Thomas have not lit it up. But I'd say they are set up for the future quite well. Maybe not set up as well as us with all our draft picks, but still enough to compete with us at an intense level.

They can't keep everyone that's due for a new contract, but they have a decent amount of money coming off. They'll re-sign a few key young guys, they still have their first round draft pick. I think the Cromartie trade will escalate into them giving up a 2nd instead of a 3rd, but Cromartie has played well for them for the majority of the season.

Guys like Jason Taylor and LT were signed for this year. Taylor has no guaranteed money coming to him next year and will be cut or retire. Even if he's cut, there's no dead money. If LT is cut, the Jets will be hit with 875,000 worth of dead money. Oh the horror.

Also add in the fact that older vets looking for a shot at the Super Bowl will take a "discount" to play in NY, just like guys like Seau and others did when NE was the cream of the crop in the AFC. You can't even deny that. The Jets have made the AFC Championship two years in a row under Rex. Rex is a player's coach - he stands up for them, he instills confidence in them, and players love being around him because he likes to have fun but also wins. So just like we used to be able to play the card of "taking less money to come here and play for a contender and get your ring", the Jets now can play that card too.

The Jets are here to compete for a while. They aren't just going to go away. Belichick waited a little too long to start rebuilding the defense, but I like what he's done over the past few years. We are starting to build a nice foundation with some good solid young players, and now we need to start adding difference makers and playmakers. Time to move up and get some elite talent for this defense. The Brady window is only getting smaller.

And by the way, the Ravens drafted Mt. Cody to replace Kelly Gregg, who is the Ravens' NT on most plays. He is 34 years old and his contract is up at the end of this season.

Good rundown on the Jets roster.

The only part that is missed is Holmes, Harris, Edwards, Cromartie are free agents at the end of the year and want to get paid. Add in Cotchery subtract the picks.

Think they are being kept with a cap?

Greene is young....then what? By his rookie season, why are you slating Wilson for the Hall of Fame?

I'm not saying they can't be good. If you think they are better set up than the Patriots, well....

Obviously you missed Ngata concept. I said the Alabama kid is "a" replacement. The point is if a team has multiple needs, more good players is an avenue to consider.

For instance, the Ravens have needs at oline and CB. From what I have read, this draft is deep with CB's.

If you are Ravens mgmt, do you not consider a scenario say Ngata for a Mankins and a late second where a quality CB could be available?

Also, I can deny the vet "discount". Those guys were signed because nobody else gave them the money.


PS Some food for thought..............As a rookie, McCourty was considerably better than Revis was as a rookie.
 
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Good rundown on the Jets roster.

I just think this whole "the Jets window is closing" thing isn't as true as people think it is. It's a way that Pats fans make themselves feel more secure about the future, but as I stated above the Jets have a good young core to build around.

Also, Tannenbaum has the reputation as a very good salary cap-ologist. I'm sure he has a plan in place to keep the guys he feels are essential going forward.

I expect them to find a way to keep Cromartie, Harris, and Holmes. They will have to choose between Holmes and Edwards, and I think they will prefer to keep Holmes -- as would most people. Cotchery still has 2 years on his deal -- 2011 and 2012. He's like Welker -- he will play it out and not complain about it like Randy Moss did.

They still have their 1st and 3rd round picks I believe, since the Cromartie one likely escalated to a 2nd rounder. So you can hammer them for not having the same ammo we have in the draft, but look at who we've drafted in the 2nd round. Not to mention the Chad Jackson's of the world, let's just look at CB.

We've spent two 2nd rounders on Darius Butler and Terrence Wheatley. One can barely get on the field and was repeatedly beat this year, and one of them is not even with the team anymore. There's still some hope with Butler, but he could end up being another 2nd round bust.

The Jets spent one 2nd rounder on Cromartie. It's important to note the Jets traded a conditional 3rd that would escalate to a 2nd rounder based on performance. If they trade doesn't work out and Cro sucks, they lose a 3rd rounder -- or in our terms a Tyrone McKenzie or Shawn Crable.

If it costs them a 2nd rounder, it means that Cromartie had a good/productive season and made positive contributions for the team. They get a former Pro Bowler who has great ball skills. Maybe he's not the corner everyone thought he was after his amazing 07 season, and maybe he struggles a little with quick twitch good route runners, but he's leaps and bounds more productive than Butler and Wheatley, both of whom can barely get on the field.

Seems like the Jets were more efficient there. They got a proven CB who is a #1 on most teams in the NFL for a 2nd round pick. We used two 2nd round picks and ended up with guys who can barely get on the field.

The Jets will have to extend Cromartie, but if he's good, why wouldn't you want to extend him? If he sucks, you give up a 3rd rounder, you let him walk. Isn't that essentially what we did with Derrick Burgess? Gave up a 3rd and a 5th for a washed up bum then cut him at the end of training camp the next year.

I haven't crunched all the numbers but the Jets have been good at signing guys in free agency and moving up in the draft and still making their cap work out.

I know they have about 18 million in dead money from Faneca, Rhodes, Lito, Jones, etc. -- I assume some of that if not all of it will come off like AD will come off for us. Let's say 15 million is freed up for argument's sake.

I know that Taylor can be cut with zero dead money going against the cap. LT can be cut with 875,000 going against the cap.

Woody can be cut and probably will be cut now that he tore his achillies. He would only cost around 1 million towards dead money, and would save the Jets around 3.3 million in cap space.

Guys like Brodney Pool were signed for one year and will come off the cap -- his cap hit was around 1.3 million.

Brunell can be cut without any dead money ramifications. His cap hit would be 1.3 million, but he will be let go or signed to a different deal.

Average talents like Eric Smith and his 1.2 million salary are coming off the books. Another average talent liek Ihedigbo and his 1.18 million salary are coming off.

Shaun Ellis' contract is up -- that's another 3.35 million coming off. He will either take a significant reduction in salary, move on, or retire. He had a good game vs NE, but Jets fans have been complaining about him all year saying he's washed up and too old.

Bryan Thomas can be cut and likely will be cut after a disappointing season without any dead money ramifications -- saving the Jets 3.7 million in cap space.

Sione Pouha had a good season for the Jets but if necessary can be cut and save them 2.2 million in cap space, with only a 250,000 dollar charge against the cap.

Mike Devito is a nice blue collar player for the Jets. He is due 2.125 million in 2011, but can be cut with zero dead money ramifications.

Kris Jenkins can be cut, and maybe he will after two consecutive knee surgeries, or maybe he retires. If he's cut, the Jets save 4.6 million and are only charged 1.8 million ind dead money.

Really the only guys that hurt the Jets cap are Bart Scott, Calvin Pace, and Vernon Gholston. They have large salaries and even if they are cut, they would kill their cap in terms of dead money.

I did a quick possible mock off-season for the Jets. Braylon, Harris, Cro, Holmes, Brad Smith, Eric Smith, Ihedigbo, Ellis all coming off. Woody, Bryan Thomas, LT, Taylor, Brunell all being released. Speculated 15 of the 18 million in dead money coming off.

Some of my calculations are likely off based on different contractual stuff or dead money, but I roughly added up around 45.3 million in cap space. Another 4.6 million would be available if they cut Jenkins (quite possible). That would make it around 50 million in cap space. They wouldn't have too much dead money either, as it would probably be somewhere around 5-7 million in this case.

Again, those are amateur calculations. I don't claim to be any salary cap stud, but that is a good money to have to extend Harris, Cro, Holmes. If you want to say each of those guys have cap hits of around 8 million per season, that's 24 million of the 50 million. They still have another 26 million to work with to re-sign lower price guys or cheaper vets, and they still have a first round pick.

I'm not crowning Kyle Wilson as anything, but many people had him ranked pretty highly in the pre-draft rankings. You have to figure he has some talent. Vontae Davis had a tough rookie season and looked like a stud this year. I'm not saying Wilson is going to be amazing, but I can't rule him a Wheatley after one year.

You don't like Shonn Greene as a back? I thought he was overrated in college and too slow/not big enough to succeed in the NFL. I was wrong. He's a fine young back with a good blend of speed and power. You wouldn't take him on the Pats? I would. I hope we find a similar value at RB in the 3rd round.

The Jets are here to compete for a while. It's not a one and done run like a lot of people believe. It's a good thing, it will push the Krafts & BB to be more aggressive.


I'm a die hard Pats fan, I like how Belichick prefers to build through the draft because that is my preference as well. But I would also like to see him be a little more aggressive at times in free agency or in trades.

For example, I would've given up the picks required to grab Boldin last offseason. Baltimore gave up a 3rd and 4th round pick for Boldin and a 5th round pick. I think Boldin would have been a great fit in this offense, and that's a great deal to get him. We had the assets to get him, but we shied away. You could've gotten back some picks after you got him if you decided to trade Moss. Hell, you trade a 3rd and a 5th for Derrick Burgess, but you don't want to trade similar resources for Boldin? Probably had to do with the extension, since the Pats don't really like to pay unless they MUST.

As for the Ravens, I find it highly unlikely they let one of the best DL in the game go. Ben Grubbs is a fine guard for them, why would they want Mankins? Mount Cody was brought in to replace Gregg as a NT/run stuffer/guy that eats up space and blocks.

McCourty had a good year. Let's not get crazy though. He made some nice plays on the ball, had some nice picks and some picks that were gifts (like the Harvin one). He was all that you could ask for as a rookie, but he still got smoked/beat a lot more times than people realize. Mike Wallace gave him fits vs Pitt, Steve Johnson beat him deep, Percy Harvin beat him over the middle on that play where the ball bounced up and McCourty was credited with an INT, etc. He had a very good year especially for a rookie, and I'm very glad we have him, but I'm not ready to consider him an elite CB yet, even if his rookie season was better than Revis'. I'm not trying to be a DB, just trying to temper expectations a bit. Teams eventually stopped throwing at him not only because he was pretty good but because the other CB (Arrington or Butler) was so inept. When Bodden comes back, McCourty will be tested a bit more and we will see how he holds up, but he looks like he has the makings of a #1 CB and looks to be much better than Kyle Wilson.

As for the cheap vet thing, I'm not talking about LT and Taylor. I'm talking about going forward. Just like we would say we can sign Fred Taylor or Shawn Springs or Seau for a cheaper price than others because they want to contend for a Super Bowl, the Jets now can too. They've been to the AFC Championship game two years in a row.

Let's say both teams had needs for a #2 CB, hypothetically. If you're a guy like Champ Bailey and you want to sign a 1 or 2 year deal somwhere, do you go to the Jets or the Pats? The Jets have gone further the last two years in the playoffs and are contenders. People love to play for Rex Ryan as a coach and a person. A lot of players (like Shawn Springs) prefer to play in Rex's aggressive style of defense where they can play bump and run with WR's a heavy majority of the time.

I'm not saying it's automatic, but you have to admit a lot more guys will give the Jets a thought than in the past. They have an attractive coach to play for just like us. But they've been to the AFCCG in 09 and 10. The last time we were there was 07.
 
Nnamdi in a second. Having two shutdown CBs would free up safeties and LB for blitzes; instant pass rush. Unfortunately he is headed to the Jets...:mad:
 
any real chance of getting hali?
 
Very, very unlikely, unlikely and very unlikely.

Haloti Ngata is too important of a piece to Baltimore's defense, Tamba Hali will probably seek a new contract that's similar to Elvis Dumervil and Nnamdi Asomugha will turn thirty before next season. All of these players come with a high price tag regardless.

A defensive lineman like Barry Cofield could be available, but New York won't let him go. If Tampa Bay doesn't resign Tim Crowder, he's a 3-4 defensive end who could interest New England. Or, an outside linebacker/defensive end such as Chase Blackburn. As for a corner back, I don't think those like Johnathan Joseph, Richard Marshall or Eric Wright are options. They will either resign or look for the highest offer.
 
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I just think this whole "the Jets window is closing" thing isn't as true as people think it is..

I didn't want to qoute the whole "book" so I just qouted your first sentence...

Anyway, this post is LITTERED with flaws. It's long and somewhat detailed so it gives you the illusion that it's not, but...

I like how you criticized the Patriots 2nd round busts by naming just two players drafted in the 2nd round...TWO

Patrick Chung and Rob Gronkowski say hello.

And same for your criticizing the 3rd round picks...You named TWO.

The Jets aren't very good at managing the cap. There can be no legitimate argument made against that. And Cromartie is a 1 on most teams? What? He's pretty good, but come on. The guy is great at covering vertical plays, but he sucks at anything where the WR is going horizontal.

Ah, it's not even worth responding to the rest of that novel...
 
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I didn't want to qoute the whole "book" so I just qouted your first sentence...

Anyway, this post is LITTERED with flaws. It's long and somewhat detailed so it gives you the illusion that it's not, but...

I like how you criticized the Patriots 2nd round busts by naming just two players drafted in the 2nd round...TWO

Patrick Chung and Rob Gronkowski say hello.

And same for your criticizing the 3rd round picks...You named TWO.

The Jets aren't very good at managing the cap. There can be no legitimate argument made against that. And Cromartie is a 1 on most teams? What? He's pretty good, but come on. The guy is great at covering vertical plays, but he sucks at anything where the WR is going horizontal.

Ah, it's not even worth responding to the rest of that novel...

Here is what we do know. Come April 2011, the Pats will have two second rounders are a player(s) for a second rounder. We know the Jets will have no second rounder and they might not have the player who cost them the second rounder.

The Jets have been masterful at accomplishing their objectives. The problem is their problems are much different than the Pats.

The key number is 300 million. That's what is still owed on the OLD Meadowlands.

The Jets and Giants are sitting in a new $1.5 billion stadium. Woody needs to sell tickets and PSL's. As such, he needed a winner NOW.

My guess is that team actually went out of it's way to trashtalk to create excitement. Suddenly, the Jets are in.

It does create longer term problems. Notice the paragraphs devoted to getting $15-18 million in cap space. Well, Marshall is getting $11 million from the fins and we know VJax want $14-16million.

What does Holmes want?

With all the new 3-4 teams, why does everyone think 3-4 personnel will not be at a premium?

Based on all the cap that guy calculates they MIGHT save two players. Three if two of them are the real old guys.
 
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I didn't want to qoute the whole "book" so I just qouted your first sentence...

Anyway, this post is LITTERED with flaws. It's long and somewhat detailed so it gives you the illusion that it's not, but...

I like how you criticized the Patriots 2nd round busts by naming just two players drafted in the 2nd round...TWO

Patrick Chung and Rob Gronkowski say hello.

And same for your criticizing the 3rd round picks...You named TWO.

The Jets aren't very good at managing the cap. There can be no legitimate argument made against that. And Cromartie is a 1 on most teams? What? He's pretty good, but come on. The guy is great at covering vertical plays, but he sucks at anything where the WR is going horizontal.

Ah, it's not even worth responding to the rest of that novel...

Sounds like someone is a little sensative. Don't get all upset just because you can't stand the fact that the Jets are closing in on us and have gone further than us the last 2 years.

You obviously didn't get what I meant at all. The arguments you made back are flawed themselves.

One of my points I said I LIKE how Belichick has built through the draft, and in another topic I said he's done a great job of collecting numerous picks and using them to collect a very nice amount talent over the last few years to re-build the defense and add some talent to the offense at TE.

I'm not bashing the Pats drafting strategy at all. My point was that every Pats fan I know loves to bash the Jets for trading away draft picks and "mismanaging the cap." There's more than one way to win, and the Jets are showing it. BB's method isn't the be all and end all.

The Jets needed to upgrade CB after last season. They went out and traded a conditional draft pick for Cromartie. He's had a pretty good season. He hasn't been amazing or lights out, but he's been a very good pickup for them for the most part.

We had a need for CB after we let Asante go. We responded by trying to sign guys like Delthea O'Neal and Fernando Bryant. We spent 2nd round picks on Butler and Wheatley, both of whom have not really worked out.

In that instance, who was more efficient? The Jets. They spent less resources on trying to fill the need for a legitimate starting corner. We wasted two 2nd round picks, the Jets gave up one. Yes, they will have to re-sign Cromartie, but if he's been good for you, why wouldn't you want to re-sign him?

Draft picks are excellent assets, but they can be used in different ways. You can move up or down the board, or you can cash them in for proven talent every now and then. That's something the Jets like to do, and I don't see anything wrong with it.

But now that you mention it, why not discuss it.. By the way, who was the last good 3rd rounder that we drafted? Please tell me.

The jury is still out on Price - who was inactive for all but one game this year, right?

Tate has done relatively nothing at WR and has not been as good as expected as a KR. Jury still out on him.

McKenzie is no longer with the team and did nothing.

Crable and O'Connell are no longer with the team and did nothing.

Dave Thomas did nothing while he was here, and was traded for a 6th round pick. He's been a decent backup TE for New Orleans, but was another blown pick at an attempt to find the right TE here.

Ellis Hobbs - JAG corner, good returner, dealt off to the Eagles for a pick.

Nick Kaczur -- started at RT for a number of years but was always seen the
weak spot on the line and a turnstile who was abused by guys like Mathis. A good depth tackle, average starter, potential decent guard going forward.

Guss Scott did nothing for us.

Brock Williams -- nothing.

JR Redmond -- I'll even give you this one since he made a few nice plays in the 2001 playoffs that led us to a SB title.

So over Belichick's tenure with the team, the two best picks we had in the 3rd round so far were Hobbs and Kaczur? Both of whom have/had been routinely ripped on by the fans of this team when they were starters. It's not solely on Belichick - it get's harder to draft as the draft goes on obviously. But if you can get an established pro, like Boldin, for a 3rd round pick, why wouldn't you do it, especially considering our difficulty drafting in that round?

2nd round picks haven't been much better either. Slightly better, but not much. For every Chung, Branch, Vollmer, and Gronk who have been great pickups and Cunningham and Spikes who look like somewhat solid picks, there's Brace, Butler, Wheatley, Chad Jackson, Bethel Johnson, etc.

The Jets traded 3rd and 5th round picks for Kris Jenkins. We traded 3rd and 5th round picks for Derrick Burgess. They've had some bad luck with Jenkins tearing his knee two years straight, but they still got a better deal than us. At least Jenkins contributed when healthy.



What was the Pats best offseason? 2007. They were very aggressive just like the Jets have been. They went out and threw big money at AD, who helped them a lot in 07 with his versatility. They traded draft picks (2nd and a 7th) for Welker and signed him to a deal (like Cromartie for a 2nd). They traded a draft pick (4th) for Moss who was in the last year of his deal (like Holmes for a 5th), and signed him to a lucrative deal after the season. They signed Stallworth, Kyle Brady, and Sammy Morris. They franchised Asante.

How did that season work out? Pretty damn well. They made a lot of big moves and still managed to keep the cap in check. Saying the Jets are headed for cap jail is an excuse to not spend money.

I don't know what resources you have about Tannenbaum and the Jets not managing the cap well, but Tanenbaum worked under BB in Cleveland and under Parcells in with the Jets. He was Bill Parcells' capologist and formed a close relationship with him. So obviously he came up under a good football background, and Parcells held him of high importance during his time with the Jets. Tannenbaum seems to know what he's doing, and I'm sure he's got a plan for the future.

And name me 31 better CB's than Cromartie if he sucks so much. He's a #1 CB on a lot of other teams in the NFL. He's not even close to the player Revis is, but he's a good corner a lot of other teams would like to have.
 
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