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Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by mayoclinic, Jan 20, 2010.

  1. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    CBSSports/NFLdraftscout now has their rankings updated to include the declared underclassmen in the 2010 draft:

    NFL Draft - 2010 Draft Prospects - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

    Of interest:

    5. Joe Haden, CB
    6. CJ Spiller, RB
    8. Derrick Morgan, DE
    10. Rolando McClain, ILB
    13. Carlos Dunlap, DE
    14. Everson Griffen, DE
    22. Mike Iupati, OG
    24. Brian Bulaga, OT
    25. Dan Williams, DT
    27. Bruce Campbell, OT
    30. Jahvid Best, RB
    38. Maurkice Pouncey, OG/C
    43. Jason Pierre-Paul, DE
    49. Terrance Cody, DT
    52. Jerry Hughes, OLB
    58. Jon Asamoah, OG
    64. Sean Weatherspoon, LB
    66. Mike Johnson, OG
    73. Greg Hardy, DE
    81. Dexter McCluster, RB
    83. Vladimir Duccasse, OG
    86. Toby Gerhart, RB
    96. Austen Lane, DE
    102. Eric Norwood, LB
    118. Micah Johnson, ILB
    140. Vince Oghobasse, DT
    145. Jared Veldheer, OT
    159. Freddie Barnes, WR
    161. Zoltan Mesko, P
    216. Clifton Geathers, DE
    226. Chris Marinelli, OT

    Interesting rankings. If things followed this order, I'd trade (probably Adalius Thomas and a conditional pick) to get somewhere into the 3rd round and I'd go with:

    22. Dan Williams, DE/DT Tennessee
    42. Jason Pierre-Paul, DE/OLB, USF
    47. Vladimir Ducasse, OT/OG, UMass
    53. Dexter McCluster, RB/WR, Mississippi
    3rd round. Austen Lane, DE/OLB, Murray St. Though I could make an argument for Micah Johnson or Eric Norwood.
    4th round. Jared Veldheer, OT, Hillsdale.
    6th and 7th rounds: DE Clifton Geathers, and trade up for P Zoltan Mesko and WR Freddie Barnes.

    Pretty nice draft.
     
  2. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey


    You seem to be in love with some small school guys this year. Interesting. A second round pick on a 1AA lineman? A fourth round pick on another lineman from a school I've never heard of prior to last week?

    I think you're the most reliable amateur scout on this board, but have you seen these guys play at all?
     
  3. stevedogc

    stevedogc Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Since the season has ended I have finally been looking into the draft. Micah Johnson is looking like he may be my binkie this year. He looks like a beast.
     
  4. NePatriots

    NePatriots PatsFans.com Draftnik PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Chris Marinelli at 226 is ridiculous... I think he will be a starting RT in the NFL next year. Having a great Shrine Bowl week so far.
     
  5. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's really hard to get film on some of them, and some of it is projection. I'm obviously not a pro scout, and even the pro's have had trouble getting adequate college film. I've seen a bit of Ducasse, and he seems like a real mauler with good feet. Reminds me a lot of Carl Nicks from Nebraska, who made the pro bowl this year at RT.

    Austen Lane and Jared Veldheer are projections at this point. Both have tantalizing size and athleticism. I've only seem very limited tape of either. I'm looking forward to seeing both in Texas vs. the Nation. My projection is based on the assumption that they play well and perform well at the combine.

    Few of us had heard of Sebastian Vollmer last year. There's lots talented guys out there. Just because they're FCS guys doesn't mean they don't have talent.

    I freely admit I'm partially pushing them in order to make sure they get attention. If they don't grade out, fine. But I'm not the only one to show interest. Nolan Nawrocki put Veldheer on his All American team at OT (not FCA All American team; including all Division I prospects), for example.
     
  6. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Chris Marinelli is one of my sleepers. I think he'll be a terrific RT in time. I've been pushing Jared Veldheer, who has unreal size/athleticism, but I'd be very happy with Marinelli as a developmental RT pick.
     
  7. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Why Ducassse over Johnson or even Asomah? Given what little I ahve seen this early, I would be inclined to draft Johnson as 47 or 53 and be very happy with the choice.

     
  8. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Why?

    1. I consider Ducasse a much better prospect than either Asamoah or Johnson.

    2. I think he will be a concensus much better prospect by the time the draft comes around. Many boards consider him a 1st/2nd roun pick.

    3. He has more upside and athleticism than either Johnson or Asamoah.

    4. He has more positional flexibility.

    I like Johnson and Asamoah, but as of right now I'd consider them a reach at 53. I'd consider Ducasse a steal at 47.

    It will be interesting to compare Johnson and Ducasse at the Senior Bowl practices.
     
  9. upstater1

    upstater1 Pro Bowl Player

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    Asomah may work as well as Ducasse but Johnson does nothing toward filling out all the Patriots OL spots with guys from other countries.
     
  10. Nonentity

    Nonentity Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Disable Jersey

    If you play guard throughout college, it generally means that you don't have the most fantastic athleticism. After all, colleges need NFL-caliber tackles more than they need NFL-caliber guards. After all, Logan Mankins was a left tackle in college but projected beautifully to guard in the NFL. Ducasse is in the same situation.

    In addition, the Patriots like to use their guards on a lot of pulls. You need good footwork and reasonable athleticism to do that. This may be why it makes more sense to pick guards who can also play tackle over guards who are strictly guards.
     
  11. upstater1

    upstater1 Pro Bowl Player

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    I really don't buy this at all, since I can give a ton of examples where the best athletes on the line are the guards. Don't forget that in college, it's usually the right tackle who has most of the pass rush responsibilities (i.e. needs to be a better against the rush than on running plays). Also, because of all the running in college, many teams put their big lugs on the edge and ask their best athletes to pull.

    I follow Penn state and UConn quite a bit and I would say that these running teams in particular focus on putting their best lineman at guard and center. UConn's best lineman was Donald Thomas, now a starter for Miami, and their two best current lineman are Zach Hurd and Moe Petrus, guard and center.
     
  12. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #24 Jersey

    I dont like a depth pick this early especially this year, Id take Bulaga over Williams any day of the week.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2010
  13. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Beluga is a type of sturgeon, and hence caviar. I don't want no stinkin' sturgeon on the roster. But Bulaga would be a fine pick.

    I wouldn't take Williams as a depth pick. I'd take him the way I would have taken Raji last year - to play DE like Ngata, to play DT next to Wilfork in a "big 4-3", and as insurance. It's all 3 that add up to value for me.
     
  14. captain stone

    captain stone Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    No Jersey Selected

    Dan Williams at 22? I hate that pick. Bill made his bed with Brace, at the expense of a pass-rusher; he now needs to lie in it and devote that pick to another position; either WR, OLB or DE (and not the college-DT-type, but the college-DE-with-size-AND-pass-rush-skills-type).

    Maurkice Pouncey should be the first OLman targeted in the 2nd round, not Ducasse. He'll provide the big, physical presence badly, badly needed at the Center position.
    Remember, Kaczur recently signed an extension, which I never, ever would've offered; but it is what it is. And Bill also wasted 4th- & 5th-rounders on lil' Richie O'Burger & Georgie Bustey, neither of whom are Centers. So the Guard position at least has quantity, if not quality; the Center position has neither.
    Therefore, if Light returns for another season, Vollmer will play RT and Kaczur should play RG. Pouncey would start at Center immediately or shortly thereafter. At the very worst, he would replace Connelly and/or Wendell as the first backup C/G.
    And if Light doesn't return, then Vollmer moves to LT, Kaczur to RT, and Pouncey to RG. Which would unfortunately mean that the older, weaker, smaller Koppen plays Center for one more year...ugh.
     
  15. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    haha gotcha, but where does Pryor, Brace, and Wright fit in to this? Id rather have a playmaker obviously but if not Id take the Bulaga who is the better prospect and would probably be a better first round value. At 6'4 245 Ngata is twice the athlete that Williams is at 2 inches shorter and 35lbs lighter, I understand that you like Ngata but if there was one Ngata in this draft who could do the things that Ngata does its Suh.
     
  16. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Williams is an inch shorter (6'3") and about 17 lbs. lighter (328 vs. 345 - not 245, BTW) than Ngata. Suh, on the other hand, is 40 lbs. lighter - a totally different animal. An animal, btu a different kind of one altogether.
     
  17. alvinnf

    alvinnf In the Starting Line-Up

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    Raji barely cracked the line up this year, till late. If their thought was "big 43" Brace is your man for that role. Unless they thought he was a bust. Even if they thought he was, it would take them a couple years to admit it. I like the idea of actually trying to run the ball and I like caviar,too!
     
  18. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Williams is listed at 6'2 on espn and nfldraft scout, Suh is actually more like Ngata at 45lbs lighter than Williams, I got Williams from anywhere between 311 to 327. UT also lists Williams at 6'3 so Id lean more toward 6'2.
     
  19. Mark Morse

    Mark Morse PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You may not buy it, but BB does! He has drafted one player that played OG and that was Orhnberger, and he played some OC too. Bussey played LT, Mankins played LT, Light played LT for Drew Brees, but was projected to be an OG. BB like to take OT's and make them OG.

    Veldheer and Ducasse are interesting players ... lets see what we see in the all star games and combine. I might be tempted to take Bruce Campbel (if available) at 22. Kiper is projecting 5 OT's in the first round. He is talking up a OL named Matthews as a sleeper.

    Lane has good size but has played against lesser competition. Lets see what come s out of the all star games. NFL Draft Scout is interesting in that you see guys lower in the the order that you really like and as it gets closer to the draft these guys end up moving up in the first three rounds and you cabn't pick them all!
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2010
  20. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think that Russell Okung, Bruce Campbell, Anthony Davis and Brian Bulaga are guaranteed 1st round picks. Trent Williams and Charlie Brown could both crack the 1st round as well, though I'm not as impressed with either. I'd seriously consider both Campbell and Bulaga at 22, though I doubt either one lasts. OT's tend to rise.

    Veldheer and Ducasse are extremely interesting, and it will be interesting to see how they fare in the all star games and combine. Stanford OT Chris Marinelli is very undervalued right now. He didn't get a combine invite. I think he's a solid starting RT by 2011 at the latest.
     

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