NFL tells teams to expect replacement refs Week 1

[MoLewisrocks]

That was horrible last night, how long did we wait for such a simple call to get worked out? Think of the momentum changes that could occur because the refs can't get their act together.

How quickly some of you forget some of the stunning gaffs in recent memory, including in playoff games. Hell, including in Superbowls. Really is the what have you done to me lately league where officials are concerned.

 

[Gwedd]

I think Pete Prisco, who can be an ass but doesn't pull his punches, had the quote of the lockout. Put the regular season refs on the field with these crews and no one would notice any difference. The media has worked this up into a frenzy of criticism. They will do that to drive a compelling story line. And it remains chic to oppose the billionaire owners. Few fans were happy with the regulars. Ed Hoculi who is suddenly revered again in NFL reffing circles, had become a goat for his gaffs. Increasingly officials were impacting games with phantom calls and swallowed whistles and inconsistent inforcement to the point many of the current critics of their replacements were convinced the fix was in.

Same guys who won the CBA negotiation will eventually prevail here. The only difference is in the interim fans who criticize the officiating will find they have some strange allies who will evaporate once the expensive guys who also sucked return and revert to telling those fans and coaches who disagree with them they just don't understand the rules and are whining because their team lost.

This times 1000

Anyone else remember the blown call at the end of the Cincy game a couple years ago that forced both teams BACK on the field?

Anyone else remember seeing Kevin Faulk actually get 3 yards on 4th & 2 only to have the refs claim he didn't make it, when camera angles clearly showed he did. Cost us a game against the Colts and a SB appearance.

Anyone else remember us losing a SB in '07 because the refs refused, absolutely REFUSED to blow the whistle with Manning "in the grasp" which should have been a sack?

I remember. Vividly. Angrily.

So don't go on ranting about replacement refs. I'd rather have these than face what I consider to be the Commissioner's hired guns who have the very real potential to influence a game on purpose.

And yeah: I said that and I mean that. I don't trust the "professional" refs as far as I can throw any of them. After seeing what happened in basketball with a ref throwing games, I have no doubt it has happened in the NFL, and will happen again.

 

[Rob0729]

I think Pete Prisco, who can be an ass but doesn't pull his punches, had the quote of the lockout. Put the regular season refs on the field with these crews and no one would notice any difference. The media has worked this up into a frenzy of criticism. They will do that to drive a compelling story line. And it remains chic to oppose the billionaire owners. Few fans were happy with the regulars. Ed Hoculi who is suddenly revered again in NFL reffing circles, had become a goat for his gaffs. Increasingly officials were impacting games with phantom calls and swallowed whistles and inconsistent inforcement to the point many of the current critics of their replacements were convinced the fix was in.

Same guys who won the CBA negotiation will eventually prevail here. The only difference is in the interim fans who criticize the officiating will find they have some strange allies who will evaporate once the expensive guys who also sucked return and revert to telling those fans and coaches who disagree with them they just don't understand the rules and are whining because their team lost.

I think replacement refs are worse than the real ones, but I don't think they are nearly as bad as people are making them out to be and not that much worse than the real ones. I read all these articles pointing out mistakes by the replacements and I think to myself that we were pointing out similar mistakes by the real refs last year.

And I pointed out earlier, the replacement refs have been keeping their flags in their pockets and airing on the side of caution with penalties. I would rather have that happen and have them miss a hold or PI rather than what the real refs do by giving a 40 yard penalty on a ticky-tack or phantom PI call. In that way, the replacement refs are better than the real ones. It may be the only way.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

All things being equal, I'd rather have them back, but what's with the lionization of the "regular" officials all of a sudden? As I recall, and as others in this thread have observed, they've made some pretty bad season- and game-changing blunders in recent years.

Except for a couple of "amateur hour" moments like turning to the wrong side of the field to make a call, what have these guys done that is worse in comparison? Not what mistakes have they made, but what have they done that is worse than costing a team a Divisional game or shot at a Playoff spot?

As far as I can see, most of their mistakes can be chalked up to nervousness over being on a bigger stage (just imagine you're a ref who's worked for decades in East Bum**** and all of a sudden the two HC's are Belichick and Coughlin with five Lombardi's between them).

I think it's just as fair to argue that they will improve week by week as they will get worse when the season goes "live."

As I said in my first sentence, I'd rather have the regular guys back but let's be real about the situation.

PS: Who knows, one of them might actually have called Eli "in the grasp" in SB XLII or seen that Sugar Bear didn't rough The Snake...
(edit)

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

I'll happily take all the delays, indecisiveness, and poor communication the replacements have brought with them over the slew of phantom calls that the old crews seemed incapable of not calling. If anything the replacements have lowered my opinion of the regulars as it's clear now that the phantom calls aren't inevitable, but most likely the result of looking for something and finding an excuse to call it.

Put me on the "If the media treated the regulars like the replacement they'd be just as big of a joke." team. People act like the regs never slowed the game down or mis-announced the call, but they did quite regularly and called things that simply didn't exist on top of it. Calling illegal hands to the face a facemask isn't going to change the outcome of the game; calling faceguarding most certainly can...

 

[UK_Pat37]

I'll happily take all the delays, indecisiveness, and poor communication the replacements have brought with them over the slew of phantom calls that the old crews seemed incapable of not calling. If anything the replacements have lowered my opinion of the regulars as it's clear now that the phantom calls aren't inevitable, but most likely the result of looking for something and finding an excuse to call it.

Put me on the "If the media treated the regulars like the replacement they'd be just as big of a joke." team. People act like the regs never slowed the game down or mis-announced the call, but they did quite regularly and called things that simply didn't exist on top of it. Calling illegal hands to the face a facemask isn't going to change the outcome of the game; calling faceguarding most certainly can...

It's amazing how many people think face guarding is illegal in the NFL like it is in college...because it isn't.

The real issue I have with it is so murky...because when you face guard you're almost always making contact and can be easily called for PI.

As for my opinions on these replacements, I've said it a million times...how much worse are they really? Not much at all. They might take a while to work out how to enforce a penalty or whatever, but I'd sooner see that and see them getting it right than them making outright howler. As mentioned already as well, they've been keeping their flags in their pockets so whilst you could argue their little conferences halt momentum, how many times has BS officiating and phantom calls halted momentum in the past? More times than I care to count.

 

[BrickPat]

The NFL made them a pretty fair offer......good enough for them to come back.....but really.....crappy calls were made by the real refs and the replacements.....t biggest negative to me us they are slower to get the game going again.....and ths could impact the Pats in the hurry up Offense....other than that....couldn't care less.

No they didn't. NFL wants to force them to become full time employees when most of them already have full time jobs. The NFL is a billion dollar business, they should pay them more money if they're required to give up their full time income for part time wages. Note that a ref's "part time" salary is by no means paltry but some of the refs works as attorneys or in other high income professions. They can't have it both ways.

Does anyone doubt that the tolerance of replacement refs (who've had a whopping 4 pre season games of pro experience) will instatntly evaporate on this board as soon as an amatuerish bad call costs the Pats a win.

 

[Gwedd]

Does anyone doubt that the tolerance of replacement refs (who've had a whopping 4 pre season games of pro experience) will instatntly evaporate on this board as soon as an amatuerish bad call costs the Pats a win.

But the "Professional" refs have cost teams wins too. It happens.

The "Professional" refs need to decide which is more important to them: A career as a ref or a part time job as a ref. People in all walks of life face these decisions every day. Companies change their employment policies, shake up staffs, move, whatever.

The NFL wants full time refs, so these guys now need to make a choice. I see no problem with that. It's the NFL's right to decide how they will structure their business, and not the employee's.

Considering the wages being offered, and the benefits package to support it, I have absolutely no sympathy for the holdout refs. Too many people are unemployed right now. These refs need to understand the image they are creating for themselves as over-paid swells who are in danger of losing ALL support from the fans, many of whom can't afford the cost of a ticket these days.

Either suck it up and get back to work, or concentrate on your non-football career and leave the reffing to folks who appreciate the opportunity to work.

 

[ForThoseAboutToRock]

I'll happily take all the delays, indecisiveness, and poor communication the replacements have brought with them over the slew of phantom calls that the old crews seemed incapable of not calling. If anything the replacements have lowered my opinion of the regulars as it's clear now that the phantom calls aren't inevitable, but most likely the result of looking for something and finding an excuse to call it.

Put me on the "If the media treated the regulars like the replacement they'd be just as big of a joke." team. People act like the regs never slowed the game down or mis-announced the call, but they did quite regularly and called things that simply didn't exist on top of it. Calling illegal hands to the face a facemask isn't going to change the outcome of the game; calling faceguarding most certainly can...

I'll disagree with you on the bumbling, indecisive communication. If the refs are going to make calls (which sometimes are crap, especially if it goes against your team), I'd rather they do it with some confidence and alacrity instead of the inconsistent, faltering way it's been done a few notable times in pre-season.

I think that if we were given a blinded study of whether a particular game officiated by guys in ski masks was done by these replacement refs or the old ones, few would be able to tell the difference. Every potentially game changing call will have some controversy surrounding it.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Unbelievable. The NFL makes how much and we are going to have these jokes out there?

 

[UK_Pat37]

Unbelievable. The NFL makes how much and we are going to have these jokes out there?

It's still a business and a successful business doesn't let it's employees take the p*ss out of them....which the officials are doing.

 

[mtbykr]

I think Pete Prisco, who can be an ass but doesn't pull his punches, had the quote of the lockout. Put the regular season refs on the field with these crews and no one would notice any difference. The media has worked this up into a frenzy of criticism. They will do that to drive a compelling story line. And it remains chic to oppose the billionaire owners. Few fans were happy with the regulars. Ed Hoculi who is suddenly revered again in NFL reffing circles, had become a goat for his gaffs. Increasingly officials were impacting games with phantom calls and swallowed whistles and inconsistent inforcement to the point many of the current critics of their replacements were convinced the fix was in.

Same guys who won the CBA negotiation will eventually prevail here. The only difference is in the interim fans who criticize the officiating will find they have some strange allies who will evaporate once the expensive guys who also sucked return and revert to telling those fans and coaches who disagree with them they just don't understand the rules and are whining because their team lost.

:ditto: well said :yeahthat:

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

It's amazing how many people think face guarding is illegal in the NFL like it is in college...because it isn't.

The real issue I have with it is so murky...because when you face guard you're almost always making contact and can be easily called for PI.

As for my opinions on these replacements, I've said it a million times...how much worse are they really? Not much at all. They might take a while to work out how to enforce a penalty or whatever, but I'd sooner see that and see them getting it right than them making outright howler. As mentioned already as well, they've been keeping their flags in their pockets so whilst you could argue their little conferences halt momentum, how many times has BS officiating and phantom calls halted momentum in the past? More times than I care to count.

Murky pretty much sums up PI. It's way too big a penalty/rule to have it be enforced with 0 consistency. That and offensive holding really need to be updated so they reflect what's actually called/reasonable rather than being a game of roulette.

I'll disagree with you on the bumbling, indecisive communication. If the refs are going to make calls (which sometimes are crap, especially if it goes against your team), I'd rather they do it with some confidence and alacrity instead of the inconsistent, faltering way it's been done a few notable times in pre-season.

I think that if we were given a blinded study of whether a particular game officiated by guys in ski masks was done by these replacement refs or the old ones, few would be able to tell the difference. Every potentially game changing call will have some controversy surrounding it.

I'm not saying I'd rather it, I'm mostly indifferent about it, I'm saying I'll take indecisively right over decisively wrong. However the sample size is microscopic, so I won't pretend to know what to expect over the course of a full season.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

When Florio drops the hits driven agenda stick poking he can still do a fine summation.

Breaking down the divide in the NFL-NFLRA dispute | ProFootballTalk

 

[BrickPat]

The fact that NFL refs occasionally make questionable calls does not equate with the competence of the replacement refs. Please remember that these guys weren't coaching Ohio State games last season they were coaching Blue Hills Regional High School tilts.

It's not like sprinkling in a new guy with an established and experienced NFL crew. The entire operation will be officiating on a learning curve as the season progresses. The fact that so many are ok with this, given how a call can affect a game, boggles my mind. If seasoned refs make occasional bad calls how many more do you think these inarticulate and inexperienced bufoons will make?

 

[BradyManny]

The media has worked this up into a frenzy of criticism. They will do that to drive a compelling story line. And it remains chic to oppose the billionaire owners. Few fans were happy with the regulars. Ed Hoculi who is suddenly revered again in NFL reffing circles, had become a goat for his gaffs. Increasingly officials were impacting games with phantom calls and swallowed whistles and inconsistent inforcement to the point many of the current critics of their replacements were convinced the fix was in.

I disagree with this; I think fans complain way more about the rules than the officials. The officials are just to tool for implementing those rules.

Not that is says much, but there's no question NFL officials are the best in pro sports. Just look at the NBA if you think the NFL refs are truly lacking.

And it's not just the media working this into a frenzy. It's players & coaches publicly saying things. It's Belichick & Coughlin on the sidelines ready to murder these guys. The replacement refs have been truly awful. I think you are underselling the difference in the quality of refereeing to this point. Even if you think the real refs are bad - and at times, they are - we've now seen much, much worse officiating, and it's not pretty.

Guys not knowing rules, guys not being able to communicate or explain rules - it's not good. I haven't followed the negotiations at all, so maybe you are right about that aspect, but in terms of evaluating the quality of officiating, there has been a real drop off.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

I'm no Nostradamus but this has DISASTER written AL OVER IT! Bad enough regular refs were bad enough this is gonna cost someone a divisional game and slow up games just on basic calls like spotting a ball, time-outs called in time, red flag issues not mention them goin under hood.
hopefully we won't get screwed out of a game because a call makes a difference in a win or loss.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I'm no Nostradamus but this has DISASTER written AL OVER IT! Bad enough regular refs were bad enough this is gonna cost someone a divisional game and slow up games just on basic calls like spotting a ball, time-outs called in time, red flag issues not mention them goin under hood.
hopefully we won't get screwed out of a game because a call makes a difference in a win or loss.

'Cause it's not like that has ever happened before once or twice or more often per season if not per game... I think these guys by and large at least want to get it right. Not always certain that's the case with the regulars. The league is prepared to help them, particularly under the hood. They may equip the ref with an ear piece to facilitate that assistance. The replay officials are members of then NFLRA but subject to a different CBA. They are the regulars. Although if it were up to the other regulars there wouldn't be any replay officials to this day.

Not Better, Just Regular | Jackson Free Press | Jackson, MS

 

[Deus Irae]

I think Pete Prisco, who can be an ass but doesn't pull his punches, had the quote of the lockout. Put the regular season refs on the field with these crews and no one would notice any difference. The media has worked this up into a frenzy of criticism. They will do that to drive a compelling story line. And it remains chic to oppose the billionaire owners. Few fans were happy with the regulars. Ed Hoculi who is suddenly revered again in NFL reffing circles, had become a goat for his gaffs. Increasingly officials were impacting games with phantom calls and swallowed whistles and inconsistent inforcement to the point many of the current critics of their replacements were convinced the fix was in.

Same guys who won the CBA negotiation will eventually prevail here. The only difference is in the interim fans who criticize the officiating will find they have some strange allies who will evaporate once the expensive guys who also sucked return and revert to telling those fans and coaches who disagree with them they just don't understand the rules and are whining because their team lost.

Prisco's an idiot, and I don't ever recall the regular officials calling a touchback on a ball that was on the 10 yard line, with the result that a team had to waste a challenge to fix the call.

That's just one example, but those have been all over the place this exhibition season. These officials are far, far worse than the regular officials.

 

[Deus Irae]

From Gresch:

Players were openly laughing at officials flipping through the rule book during commercials.