Nothing much to be gained going forward arguing with someone who has become emotionally delusional to the point he desperately, persistently links to articles that actually simply underscore the validity of the league's actions. And now he is unraveling to the point he insults those who have long treated him like a welcome guest here prior to his personal defense of the fleur de lis meltdown. Just a one track troll now desperately seeking validation for his own delusion by attempting to make it about us (fans) vs. Goodell. It's not. Hell, even Deus gets that.
There is a reason the only appeals the NFLPA is persuing are directed at attempting to fabricate potential the existence of technical loopholes in the appeals or even disciplinary processes... They aren't dumb enough to even attempt to actually mount an appeal based on the insufficiency of the evidence. Although fueling the perception that it might be is of course not beneath them. They are playing to an audience and they know just how gullible it is and now many of them are by nature tin foil conspiracy theorists in perpetual denial...
Well agreed the statement is harsh, but this is kind of information I was fishing for, sorry man, but you just would not budge.
You have a perception that any support of the Saints position is delusional, even with evidence coming to light that shows the NFL changed Hardgroves, Vitts, and even possibly Williams positions, a source close to williams has stated, from what they actually said in their declarations. That includes their attorney. Who should have known that the statements givin did not include admitting a Play to injure bounty program.
Smith's statements, that make perfect sense. Where he points out, why would you participate in a pay to injure program paying $2500 to take out Farve when your fine from the NFL for the hit is going to be $15,000, and that it was a pay to performance program.
$2500 to these guys is a $25 bet to you and me, theres simply no money in it.
Its never been about the fans vs Goodell. Its about the saints players and staff vs Goodell, no one else is involved. The fans want this to go away.
Im kind of at a loss of how many times this has to be said.
Who admitted and what evidence shows a pay to injure program at NO ?
SP = no
GW = no ( recently discovered he never said it)
Smith = no
Vilma = no
Vitt = no
Hardgrove = no recently discovered he never said it)
all other saints and staff = no
Who admitted and what evidence shows a pay for performance program at NO ?
SP = yes
GW = yes
Smith = yes
Vilma = yes
Vitt = yes
Hardgrove = yes
Who admitted to lying to Goodell at NO ?
SP = no
GW = yes
Smith = no
Vilma = no
Vitt = no
Hardgrove = yes ( but then he was told to play dumb, not lie)
all other saints and staff = no
If Hargrove was actually told these things, and that's a big if considering it's being vehemently denied by a well respected long tenured coach (as opposed to a multiple drug-offender in Hargrove), it would have been because of Jimmy Kennedy. One of the original reasons that the NFL believed there might be a bounty program in the Saints Org is because allegedly, Hargrove told his good friend Jimmy Kennedy, then with the Vikings, that there was a bounty on Favre in the NFCCG. I say allegedly because both Kennedy and Hargrove have denied that the conversation ever took place. *
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The Saints coaches were told that this was a reason for the investigation, so it would make sense to talk to Hargrove, understand why he would say such a thing (if he said it), and make sure he understood the ramifications of doing so. Whether or not the program existed (and I'm not denying it cause how would I know) doesn't change the fact that they would need to talk to Hargrove, since his alleged comments to Kennedy kicked off the investigation. *
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But the saints are not being punished for a pay for performance program by Goodell. They are being punish for lying to Goodell, and a existing bounty program to intentionally injure other players. He has been very clear on that. Almost no evidence exist that this was the case. Short of 1 email to SP, and vilma making a $10,000 bet, worth about $100 to a NFL player. All of which was in 2009, nothing later.
Yet, its fact, because Goodell said it happened. Even after he has tampered with statements, and released false information threw his attorney, changed his position toward the NFLPA 2x, and your fine with that. And we're delusional ?
I know I am coming on a little strong, and probably guilty of trying to illicit a response from you by playing a trick. I admit that, but I have respected your post for so long, and can't for the life of me understand the concrete definitive passion of your position in this. The evidence is just not there, and thats really all we are asking for. this needs to enter another level of objective discussion.
