NFL Radio Kirwan and Wilcox say Pats offseason winner and something else

[signbabybrady]

I wasn't listening my father was but he was telling me that they were talking about the Pats offseason SO FAR and think it is by far the best of any team.......AND they still are talking up the Peppers rumors

 

[BadMoFo]

I wasn't listening my father way but he was telling me that they were talking about the Pats offseason SO FAR and think it is by far the best of any team.......AND they still are talking up the Peppers rumors

Ok take a deep breath and re-write the beginning of that sentence.

 

[JSn]

Kirwan is heavily invested in that idea (Peppers to pats).

With the growing buzz of a return to Miami by JT, it's still a possibility.

 

[signbabybrady]

Kirwan is heavily invested in that idea (Peppers to pats).

With the growing buzz of a return to Miami by JT, it's still a possibility.

where did you hear that

 

[JSn]

Just be sure to take "buzz" as rumour...

Rumor!! Dolphins close to signing Jason Taylor for 2 years & obtaining Tony Gonzalez - FinHeaven Forums

 

[tombonneau]

Just be sure to take "buzz" as rumour...

Rumor!! Dolphins close to signing Jason Taylor for 2 years & obtaining Tony Gonzalez - FinHeaven Forums

I'd be shocked if JT returned to the Fins. What is different now than when the Tuna snubbed him and ran him out of town last year? I think there was some serious friction between Tuna & JT, and given that Taylor will have many suitors, not sure he heads back to the Fish.

As far as Tony G, that would be a great move by Miami, I hope it doesn't happen. He's exactly the type of underneath threat that would help Noodle Arm tremendously.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Not seeing how we can afford Peppers right now cap-wise. Plus we do still have a boatload of draft picks and CB is no longer a need so I'd imagine OLB will be addressed in the draft.

I do share his views on our offseason thus far, I'm loving what the Pats have done at CB. This has GOT to be our year.

 

[The 12th Man]

As much as I love the direction the Pats are going this offseason and some of the signings, I would argue that Kansas City has had the BEST offseason so far by adding Pioli, Todd Haley, Cassel, Vrabel, and resigned some of their guys. Denver would be a close 2nd since they got JM from us and a bunch of talented FAs as well including Dawkins, Gaffney.

I personally rank the Pats offseason SO FAR as the 3rd best since we lost some great personel and one of our defensive leaders/captain/signal caller, a very good #3 WR, some key backups, long snapper and special teams guys, and we don't know for sure about Rodney's future with the team. Also, we've yet to extend Big Vince. Some positives are improvements at TE, RB, CB (but can't get a whole lot worse than last year), 34th overall pick, another pretty good LS, too early to tell on Greg Lewis now, and we resigned some other key backups + Sanders.

 

[signbabybrady]

As much as I love the direction the Pats are going this offseason and some of the signings, I would argue that Kansas City has had the BEST offseason so far by adding Pioli, Todd Haley, Cassel, Vrabel, and resigned some of their guys. Denver would be a close 2nd since they got JM from us and a bunch of talented FAs as well including Dawkins, Gaffney.

I personally rank the Pats offseason SO FAR as the 3rd best since we lost some great personel and one of our defensive leaders/captain/signal caller, a very good #3 WR, some key backups, long snapper and special teams guys, and we don't know for sure about Rodney's future with the team. Also, we've yet to extend Big Vince. Some positives are improvements at TE, RB, CB (but can't get a whole lot worse than last year), 34th overall pick, another pretty good LS, too early to tell on Greg Lewis now, and we resigned some other key backups + Sanders.

Some valid points....I dont think they were factoring in the front office moves and to be honest I dont even think they were thinking of plus minus I think they were speaking more of just player acquisitions.

 

[KDPPatsfan85]

I think the Patriots are doing a hell of a job this offseason!! Our defense looks much better than last year and the best part is that Deltha O'neal is no longer a Patriot!

 

[captain stone]

This off-season has been a very mixed bag. Our cap space has by no means been maximized; in fact, some of it has been wasted.

The Good:
Fred Taylor
Chris Baker
Leigh Bodden
Shawn Springs - but not at that cost
Losing Vrabel's cap hit
Losing Cassel's cap hit
TBC - as long as he doesn't report as Tubby Banta-cAin't

The Bad:
Not doing right by the franchise, instead giving Cassel to ol' buddy Pioli for 50 cents on the dollar. Disgraceful. Tampa's or Detroit's (2nd) First-Rounder were there for the taking.

Overpaying for old Shawn Springs. I have the over/under on games missed this season at 6.

Not signing Bodden to a longer contract.

Throwing away a 5th-rounder for the excreble, useless, worthless, soon-to-have-been-released-anyway Greg Lewis. Effin ******ed, when there are still much, much, much better WRs - as in, almost everyone else - available at the cost of ZERO EFFIN DRAFT PICKS. Idiots.

Not signing Sean Jones to play SS. Lil' Jimmy Sanders does NOT count. That JAG is a 3rd Safety - AT BEST.

Overpaying - as in, one penny over the vet minimum - for lil' Jimmy is a JAG, e-i-e-i-o. He & Stomper now comprise one of the least-feared Safety tandems in football.

Wasting precious trees to create the paperwork that was used to sign the never-was & never-will-be Eric Effin Alexander. We need more size, explosion & real talent at LB, and Alexander provides absolutely none of that. What's so effin wrong with having backup LBs who can, you know, actually play LB?

Not signing Andra Davis to play SILB.

Allowing Heath Evans to sign elsewhere. The guy had improved his blocking - a lot, IMO - from the time he arrived in '05, he loved wearing the Elvis, and he was our only effin FB. Now, if the FO signs Leonard Weaver, or even Justin Griffith or Cecil Sapp, then I'll breathe a little easier in the knowledge that BB hasn't completely abandoned the 2-back, power running game, just because The Man Who Saved His Career (Tom Brady) will be returning.

So as you can see, some good has been accomplished, but there is more to do, incl. finding eventual starters at SILB, OLB, CB, SS, DE, FB, LT & P...and not blowing another effin draft out your azz, Genius.

 

[Canada's #1 Pats Fan]

since we lost some great personel and one of our defensive leaders/captain/signal caller, a very good #3 WR, some key backups, long snapper and special teams guys

IMO, if the Pats viewed any of your above listed guys as 'great' they would have resigned them and not let them get to FA. It is obvious that BB thought that each of those guys was replaceable at his 'cost' - not what they or their agent thought they were worth.

 

[#56300ex]

Just be sure to take "buzz" as rumour...

Rumor!! Dolphins close to signing Jason Taylor for 2 years & obtaining Tony Gonzalez - FinHeaven Forums

Thanks a lot JSn, I clicked on the link to finheaven and got sidetracked in their "ladies lounge".


What were we talking about again?

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Just be sure to take "buzz" as rumour...

Rumor!! Dolphins close to signing Jason Taylor for 2 years & obtaining Tony Gonzalez - FinHeaven Forums

Hahahahahaha, went to finhaven and read this line

The first one was the resigning of Jason Taylor. There seems to be a snag in the contract though, and JT wants 2 years, 4 million and the Dolphins have settled at 2 years, 2 million, with obvious escalators. The guy said the deal should be done at anytime and he will be a Dolphin

Are you ******* kidding me. those numbers are a joke. Makes this rumor totally unbelievable.

 

[The 12th Man]

IMO, if the Pats viewed any of your above listed guys as 'great' they would have resigned them and not let them get to FA. It is obvious that BB thought that each of those guys was replaceable at his 'cost' - not what they or their agent thought they were worth.

Are you telling me you don't think Scott Pioli, Josh McDaniels, along with some of our other coaches we lost this year are GREAT? You gotta be kidding. Scott Pioli helped MAKE the Patriots. BB even said they were great himself, he just couldn't keep them because he'd be holding them back (Just the way business is with great coaches). AND if you don't think that Vrabel is a GREAT linebacker...So he's older now, but so are many players that are still great (If BB cared so much about age, he wouldn't sign a 34 yr old CB to be our potential starter). Vrabel just had a Pro Bowl year in 07, he was our defensive captain, signal caller, leader, great locker room guy, and did everything the coaches asked him to do including goal line O. I don't think Jabar Gaffney is necessarily a GREAT WR, but he was (IMO) the best available #3 WR and left for more money.

 

[Buchanty]

I think this is proof positive that the league has to beware BB missing the post-season. He has now had the time to be effective in the February FA period. It would be interesting to see which FAs were acquired in 2003 the last time BB had the luxury of time to organize the team, and whether it enabled him to draft the best player at the time instead of need.

A quick look at the 2003 draft picks shows pretty good success.

Round 1 - Ty Warren (gold star)
Round 2 - Eugene Wilson (shone brightly with Rodney but faded), now with the Texans where he picked up a nice extension contract.
Round 2 - Bethel Johnson (sadly a bust - but I still love one of his diving catches)
Round 4 - Dan Klecko DT/FB/? solid journeyman 3 years with Pats 2 with Colts now with the Eagles
Round 4 - Assante Samuel (gold star) now with the Eagles
Round 5 - Dan Koppen (silver star)
Round 6 - Kliff Kingsbury QB - picked up by the Jets in 2005 and released at the end of the season after completing 1/2 for 17 yds.
Round 7 - Spencer Nead TE - picked up by the RAMS after TC, 1 catch for 6 yds and a lost fumble, released at the end of 2003 season
Round 7 - Tully Banta-Cain LB (bronze star) back with the team after 2 years @ SF
Round 7 - Ethan Kelley - NT - released by the Browns in 2008)

That's 3 winners (ie starters in any team -Pro Bowlers), a starter in another team (Eugene), a couple of solid players (not starters), one bust and some camp fodder. Not bad from a long winter's break...oh and lest I forget, it also led to back-to-back Lombardi's.

I will be watching this draft with avid interest.

 

[groundgame]

I think the Patriots are doing a hell of a job this offseason!! Our defense looks much better than last year and the best part is that Deltha O'neal is no longer a Patriot!

Like every year we'll need 22 defensive backs to net out at a healthy 6 by week 11.

 

[mcsully]

I think this is proof positive that the league has to beware BB missing the post-season. He has now had the time to be effective in the February FA period. It would be interesting to see which FAs were acquired in 2003 the last time BB had the luxury of time to organize the team, and whether it enabled him to draft the best player at the time instead of need.

A quick look at the 2003 draft picks shows pretty good success.

Round 1 - Ty Warren (gold star)
Round 2 - Eugene Wilson (shone brightly with Rodney but faded), now with the Texans where he picked up a nice extension contract.
Round 2 - Bethel Johnson (sadly a bust - but I still love one of his diving catches)
Round 4 - Dan Klecko DT/FB/? solid journeyman 3 years with Pats 2 with Colts now with the Eagles
Round 4 - Assante Samuel (gold star) now with the Eagles
Round 5 - Dan Koppen (silver star)
Round 6 - Kliff Kingsbury QB - picked up by the Jets in 2005 and released at the end of the season after completing 1/2 for 17 yds.
Round 7 - Spencer Nead TE - picked up the RAMS after TC, 1 catch for 6 yds and a lost fumble, released at the end of 2003 season
Round 7 - Tully Banta-Cain LB (bronze star) back with the team after 2 years @ SF
Round 7 - Ethan Kelley - NT - released by the Browns in 2008)

That's 3 winners (ie starters in any team -Pro Bowlers), a starter in another team (Eugene), a couple of solid players (not starters), one bust and some camp fodder. Not bad from a long winter's break...oh and lest I forget, it also led to back-to-back Lombardi's.

I will be watching this draft with avid interest.

Solid post.. I like your train of thought

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

Are you telling me you don't think Scott Pioli, Josh McDaniels, along with some of our other coaches we lost this year are GREAT? You gotta be kidding. Scott Pioli helped MAKE the Patriots. BB even said they were great himself, he just couldn't keep them because he'd be holding them back (Just the way business is with great coaches). AND if you don't think that Vrabel is a GREAT linebacker...So he's older now, but so are many players that are still great (If BB cared so much about age, he wouldn't sign a 34 yr old CB to be our potential starter). Vrabel just had a Pro Bowl year in 07, he was our defensive captain, signal caller, leader, great locker room guy, and did everything the coaches asked him to do including goal line O. I don't think Jabar Gaffney is necessarily a GREAT WR, but he was (IMO) the best available #3 WR and left for more money.

BB runs the team and the show in NE and has done so since he arrived. He knows that he needed to surounded himself with good football men and with Pioli he had a great friend who he had a long history with. BB is a smart football man and will bring in coaches and players who will help them win, he still has Ernie Adams to bounce things off of.

Yes Vrabel is a great LB but at his age and the postion he plays is very physical, his best days are behind him.....two years behind him. Jason Taylor's body began to break down last year it is just a fact of life and business of football. Vraible is going to be a great leader on a young KC team who are wanting to change to the 3-4.

There is a changing of the guard in NE but we still have the main man in place and in BB we trust

 

[Buchanty]

Just to finish off my earlier post on the 2003 draft - the following FAs were picked up by the Patriots that year:

PLAYER POS TEAM
Chris Akins S Cleveland Browns
Larry Centers FB Buffalo Bills
Michael Cloud RB Kansas City Chiefs
Rosevelt Colvin LB Chicago Bears
Don Davis SLB St. Louis Rams
Brandon Gorin T San Diego Chargers
Rodney Harrison S San Diego Chargers
Russ Hochstein G/C Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Sean McDermott LS Miami Dolphins
Tyrone Poole CB Denver Broncos
Dedric Ward WR Baltimore Ravens

2 gold stars in Rodney and Rosey (before the hip fracture) and a bronze for Hochstein and no real busts. Several of them (Centers and Poole) were veterans at the end or close to the ends of their careers. Ward and Cloud sparked brightly for a couple of games when needed, and contributed to the march to the SB.

So putting the FAs and the draft together for 2003 we got

5 starters (pro-bowl material) Rodney, Rosey, Ty, Assante and Dan
5 decent players - Wilson, Poole, Banta-Cain, Centers, Hochstein
5 journeymen - Klecko, Ward, Cloud, Davis and Gorin

and I think we got/will get compensatory picks for 3 of them (TBC, Gorin and Assante).

That is quite impressive.