NFL officials [mergedx4]

[richpats]

Re: NFL officials

Excuse me for misreading your posts. So then you don't think the games are fixed?

What did I say in the post above?

 

[Pujo]

Re: NFL officials

Anyone who's been on the political forum knows I rarely agree with Qui Gon, but he's 110% right on this whole topic. Funny how nobody thought the league was fixed in 2001, except for Raiders and Rams fans of course! There are two kinds of "fixing" possible:

1. An individual official who has something to gain from the outcome, like if he gambles on the games. This is the suspicion with the NBA ref.

2. A league conspiring to rig the outcome for financial reasons, i.e., to improve marketing prospects by giving the championship to a large-market team and all the jersey sales that come with it.

#1 is always possible, though like many pointed out, the large crews with defined areas of responsibility, infrequent games (compared to other sports), and stringent league review make it less likely here than in other sports. If someone's cheating was of this variety, there is no reason to think one team would get the benefit more than any other; it would be determined on a game-by-game basis.

#2 would be a much bigger deal, and much harder to pull off because of the number of people involved and the secrecy required. Who's idea is it, the commissioner's? Or did the owners ask him to take on power a la WWE? I don't know why the commish, on his own initiative, would risk serious criminal prosecution to help the owners make money if they didn't ask for it. If the owners are in on it, then the entire game of football would be a sham and 32 organizations would be involved in keeping it quiet. This would have to happen as new owners enter the elite 32. I bet Bob Kraft would have been shocked to spend millions on the team to find out the whole sport's rigged! I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'm as inclined to believe in it as much as the Loch Ness monster or that we actually landed on the moon (as if).

Fixing's possible, but a team's fans saying games were rigged in favor of their opponent? Never heard of such a thing!

 

[Frezo]

Re: NFL officials

What did I say in the post above?

Well you certainly indicate a belief that there is some corruption. If it's not to influence the outcome of games, what would be the point?

 

[Seymour93]

Re: NFL officials

I'm forced to disagree that the NFL is fixing games for its own benefit.

I think there's a difference between outright fixing of a game and going easy on one side. The league is biased towards the Colts and Mannings so not only does it favor them in marketing, but it also spills on to the refereeing. The 50/50 calls have always gone their way and they will continue to do so until P. Manning gets old and another son of a 70's QB gets drafted.

 

[Frezo]

Re: NFL officials

I think there's a difference between outright fixing of a game and going easy on one side. The league is biased towards the Colts and Mannings so not only does it favor them in marketing, but it also spills on to the refereeing. The 50/50 calls have always gone their way and they will continue to do so until P. Manning gets old and another son of a 70's QB gets drafted.

So then you believe the league is showing favoritism. The only reason to do this is to have an effect on the outcome of the games. The driving force would be who wins. IMO that is a level of fixing.

 

[QuiGon]

Re: NFL officials

Ok, you didn't answer my question.

Actually I did. But it was just lost on you.

BTW, do you always answer a question with a question?

This question here, considering I have given direct responses to most of your questions, shows you aren't really reading my responses.

When I said "I know the scheduling rotation" that should have tipped you. Let me put this in plain English as to not confuse you: given the games the Pats were scheduled to play in 2005, isn't it strange that they would give NE a five-game stretch with 4 road games against THOSE opponents? Please back up your answer with some reasoning.

No I don't find it strange. The NFL schedule is a complex procedure based mostly on trying to appease the TV networks. They try to place many of their best, marquee games in October and November. I think this was the primary concern. I don't think for a second anyone said "let's stick it to the Patriots..!!"

 

[QuiGon]

Re: NFL officials

Anyone who's been on the political forum knows I rarely agree with Qui Gon, but he's 110% right on this whole topic.

And once again Pujo, my good friend from many a political debate, shows his wisdom and his acumen with his post

#2 would be a much bigger deal, and much harder to pull off because of the number of people involved and the secrecy required. Who's idea is it, the commissioner's? Or did the owners ask him to take on power a la WWE? I don't know why the commish, on his own initiative, would risk serious criminal prosecution to help the owners make money if they didn't ask for it.

Just, as an addition, the whole concept that the league is going to risk their entire existence in order to increase ratings or jersey sales by 0.01% is absurd.

It's just amazing how many people think things are fixed when things don't go their way... it's like when the Celtics lost the damn lottery a couple months ago...

 

[PatsFaninAZ]

Re: NFL officials

It's just amazing how many people think things are fixed when things don't go their way... it's like when the Celtics lost the damn lottery a couple months ago...

Gotta look for something to hang on to after a loss. That's all it is -- blame anything but the team or the opponent. It's pronounced on message boards. Why? Because of all the pre-game smack talk with the opponents' fans. Once you've invested all that, you need to find something -- anything! -- to hang your hat on for why you were right even though your team lost.

It usually goes like this: (1) Can I blame the refs? (2) Can I call the other team or something they did not "classy" to distract from the fact that we lost? (3) Can I say that something the opposing fans did was not "classy" to distract from the fact that we lost.

The funny thing about the "we were screwed by the officials" thing is that you never hear a fan ever say that a game was handed to them by slanted officials. Consider this -- we're Pats fans. In the last several years, we've won way more than we've lost. If refs are out there fixing games, or the league is biased, we've been the biggest beneficiaries of all. They've favored US! The people that should be belly-aching are the Lions and Cardinals fans, right?

Oh, no, wait -- we the glorious patriots are so great that we win DESPITE skewed officiating, while all 31 of the other teams NEED the skewed officiating to win.

Can you imagine what the "I was robbed" crowd would be saying even today if the tuck call had gone against us? I'm sure if the snow bowl game had never happened and nobody knew about the tuck rule, and it bit us in the butt in an AFCC game against Indy, they'd all be saying, "no, I understand that a rule is a rule."

 

[richpats]

Re: NFL officials

I think there's a difference between outright fixing of a game and going easy on one side.

Exactly. Couldn't put it any better.

 

[richpats]

Re: NFL officials

Actually I did. But it was just lost on you.

So if the Colts had just won 4/6 SB's, would you think it was a good thing? I don't care about the Packers, Steelers or Cowboys of the past.

 

[Peytonsbetter]

Re: NFL officials

Sorta like the Colts o-line holding every play. If they're not gonna call it, they're going to keep doing it. Maybe somebody should "emphasize" a rule on them.

Ahh yes, the supposed "holding" by the Colt's offensive line. Well, losing Tarik means we'll have to do it a lot more this year. I hope the league doesn't mind. Seriously, I have never heard of this ANYWHERE but here. Its amazing how you guys are the only ones who notice it.

Why was it "good" for the NFL though? Your reasoning is non-existent. A dynasty in today's league is just what the NFL is trying to prevent.

Are you seriously arguing that all those old dynasties were bad for the league? If you are, I would think that the burden of proof would fall on you, considering the fact that the NFL is the most popular sport going right now.

Wow, only 2 tough road games back-to-back. I'll admit, compared to their other schedules that was pretty rough

This is downright funny-fans of a team that has won 3 of the last 5 Super-Bowls whining about corrupt officiating. Hysterical!

 

[richpats]

Re: NFL officials

Are you seriously arguing that all those old dynasties were bad for the league? If you are, I would think that the burden of proof would fall on you, considering the fact that the NFL is the most popular sport going right now.

When did this become a discussion of past dynasties?

The NFL isn't like MLB, there is parity at work. Parity is a big reason why the NFL is the most popular sport, even a bad team like the Saints can turn around and compete for the Super Bowl in just one year. Consequently good teams can slide down, like the Broncos or Steelers last year.

If parity is designed to "bring every team to the middle" then having a team win every year would not support the effort.

 

[Kokomodave]

Re: NFL officials

Any real Pats fans that believe some of the things posted in this thread would say it tarnishs 3 Super Bowl rings. Raiders fans could make a case against the Pats. The Pats age at LB showed against the Colts. Thats why they lost. The NBA is fixed ! NFL no way..."When " the Pats win XLII is the NFL still fixed?

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

Re: NFL officials

Every NFL game is reviewed by several NFL Officials, and each and every member of the officiating crew is rated and graded on his performance. http://www.nfl.com/insider/2001/officials_magazine.html

NFL officials, unlike every other sport, are part-time jobs.

The NBA has a serious problem on their hands, this thing has the potential to absolutely destroy the league. Now they are saying that the ref in question, who BTW, had two prior disorderly conduct arrests, which should have raised the league's eyebrows long before this, is going to cooperate with the FBI, and name the mobsters, and OTHER REFS WHO ALSO SHAVED POINTS!!!

Point shaving in basketball is very easy, hell an 18 year old kid from Brooklyn, running his own book at Arizona St. once got a player to shave points, imagine how many other times it has been done. (Cough, Cough, Boston College)

Plus the NBA, has it's summer league and the All-Star game in Vegas (PAcman can give you the details), which also raises concerns.

 

[richpats]

Re: NFL officials

Any real Pats fans that believe some of the things posted in this thread would say it tarnishs 3 Super Bowl rings.

I believe that the Pats' dynasty in a league striving for parity actually makes the accomplishment all the more impressive.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Re: NFL officials

you mean to tell me the Head Coach of an NFL team that just lost a game criticized the officials..?!? Shocked..!! I am shocked to hear such a thing..!!

quote]

Watch that Super Bowl again, especially when Hasselback got called for an illegal block after the interception (when he was trying to make a tackle) by a supposedly all-star crew and tell me again how that game wasn't poorly officiated. When you watch it as an unbiased observer, it's hard not to notice that the calls were extremely one-sided....

 

[QuiGon]

Re: NFL officials

It usually goes like this: (1) Can I blame the refs? (2) Can I call the other team or something they did not "classy" to distract from the fact that we lost? (3) Can I say that something the opposing fans did was not "classy" to distract from the fact that we lost.

Wow. That is, like, an extremely accurate and well worded description of precisely what happens here on the internet. Well done..!!

 

[QuiGon]

Re: NFL officials

So if the Colts had just won 4/6 SB's, would you think it was a good thing? I don't care about the Packers, Steelers or Cowboys of the past.

What I said was "a dynasty is never a bad thing." You're trying to put words in my mouth by making it seem like I said "a dynasty is a good thing." There is a difference, however subtle, between those 2 statements.

So, to answer your question (and given the current structure of the NFL), I would not consider it a bad thing for the league if a team went out and won 4 of 6 Super Bowls, whether that team is the Colts, Patriots, Lions, Bears or Cardinals.

You "don't care about the Packers, Steelers or Cowboys of the past" because those are historical examples of something which supports my contention, and you don't want to hear about anything that supports my contention.

 

[QuiGon]

Re: NFL officials

When did this become a discussion of past dynasties?

When you brought up the subject of dynasties. You seem to believe that the league sees dynasties as a bad thing. The best way to demonstrate the fallacy of that reasoning is by showing how, in the past, dynasties have not been a bad thing.

If parity is designed to "bring every team to the middle" then having a team win every year would not support the effort.

I think we have discovered the flaw in your reasoning. Parity is not designed to "bring every team to the middle." Parity is designed to give every team a level field on which to compete. There's a salary cap, so teams like the Pats, Cowboys and Redskins cannot outspend the Colts, Bills and Packers into oblivion. A full 7/8th of the schedule is determined by a certain formula - and the remaining 1/8th is determined based on the previous year's final standings.

You're making it sound like they give cap relief to crappy teams like Detroit and Cleveland and punish winners like NE and Indy. That just ain't the case.

 

[QuiGon]

Re: NFL officials

The NBA has a serious problem on their hands, this thing has the potential to absolutely destroy the league. Now they are saying that the ref in question, who BTW, had two prior disorderly conduct arrests, which should have raised the league's eyebrows long before this, is going to cooperate with the FBI, and name the mobsters, and OTHER REFS WHO ALSO SHAVED POINTS!!!

I think this is the key issue that will determine the damage to the NBA. One ref, acting alone, being purely an isolated case is something that can be overcome. A whole bunch of refs doing this... well, then it may be time to turn in the ole' Celtics season tickets...

Point shaving in basketball is very easy, hell an 18 year old kid from Brooklyn, running his own book at Arizona St. once got a player to shave points, imagine how many other times it has been done. (Cough, Cough, Boston College)

That's my biggest fear: Point shaving in college ranks. A pro NBA-er makes too much money... you think a guy making millions per year is going to take a $25,000 bribe to shave..? No way. However, some college kid who's the star of his team but knows he can't make it in the NBA might just say "Hey, there's no harm in us winning by 15 instead of 20..."