NFL investigating Saints for placing bounties on players(merged X2)

[MP-Logick]

I was half expecting Easterbrook to say something like, "Yeah, the Saints were bad, but the Patriots are the devil." Of course he made it sound like the whole NO organization should face life imprisonment, but oh well.

 

[Joker]

I'm sure there are many football and ex football players amongst us here...a thousand years ago, when I played,I was what was called the "monster man" in a 4/3 defense...essentially a LB/safety hybrid.The object ,(as anyone who has ever played the game competitively),on defense is to hit the opponent...HARD...impose YOUR will.

I never played in a game where anyone said "tone it down" or "reel it back"....if you tried to cross the LOS you were going to get hit as hard as humanly possible.I cannot recall laying a hard hit or a teammate doing likewise that wasn't met with "yeah man, nice hit!".The defense takes pride in watching an opponent get up wobbling and woozy after a good hit.

What separates this from what has been going on with this "hit for pay" scandal is quite simple....a football player plays for team FIRST and only cares about WINNING. As everyone has seen and heard these past days,THESE players involved in this scandal were primarily interested in collecting the bounty,win or lose. As long as they got a big hit that paid, winning was secondary. THAT is what is so grievous about this scandal, the very integrity of the game has been co-opted.

 

[Bella*chick]

I'm sure there are many football and ex football players amongst us here...a thousand years ago, when I played,I was what was called the "monster man" in a 4/3 defense...essentially a LB/safety hybrid.The object ,(as anyone who has ever played the game competitively),on defense is to hit the opponent...HARD...impose YOUR will.

I never played in a game where anyone said "tone it down" or "reel it back"....if you tried to cross the LOS you were going to get hit as hard as humanly possible.I cannot recall laying a hard hit or a teammate doing likewise that wasn't met with "yeah man, nice hit!".The defense takes pride in watching an opponent get up wobbling and woozy after a good hit.

What separates this from what has been going on with this "hit for pay" scandal is quite simple....a football player plays for team FIRST and only cares about WINNING. As everyone has seen and heard these past days,THESE players involved in this scandal were primarily interested in collecting the bounty,win or lose. As long as they got a big hit that paid, winning was secondary. THAT is what is so grievous about this scandal, the very integrity of the game has been co-opted.

You know, I've been listening to a lot of the coverage on this and no one has brought this point up, so good on you, Joker. I have heard a lot of talk about it isn't a big deal, everyone does it, they were clean hits and would have happened without a bounty so what is wrong with it, etc. I just wonder though, if the players are going to play just as hard without a bounty as with one, why do it? Players must have known it wasn't on the up and up or they wouldn't be talking about snitching. If the end result if the same, are bragging rights and a couple thousand bucks really worth it when this is the potential fallout? Guess these guys like to live dangerously, huh.

I also keep hearing that just because there was 10,000 on the Favre bounty it comes to nothing because he wasn't carted off. If there was no injury, that makes the act of setting the bounty OK. I always yell at the radio when that happens. I can conspire to kidnap someone and just because we don't or it doesn't end up as we intended doesn't mean we get off scot free. LOL, illegal is illegal. And no, I'm not comparing bounties to kidnapping!

 

[PatsFan24]

IF the allegations are proven to be true then this is 100 times worse than spyagate. However it will probably not get the same media attention. Not long term.

 

[Armchair Quarterback]

IF the allegations are proven to be true then this is 100 times worse than spyagate. However it will probably not get the same media attention. Not long term.

The Peyton Manning story will now be covered 24/7 until the start of free agency, giving the NFL ample opportunity to minimize this story and the eventual punishment.

 

[FredFromDartmouth]

I can almost guarantee that a number of teams playing the Patriots had "Injure Welker" in their game plan. It certainly seemed that way.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I'm sure there are many football and ex football players amongst us here...a thousand years ago, when I played,I was what was called the "monster man" in a 4/3 defense...essentially a LB/safety hybrid.

Question: Did you ever do the mash? The Monster Mash?

 

[MassPats38]

This is a PR disaster for the NFL because the Saints were still basking in the "feel good" glow post-title.

From what I have watched and read, there seems to be a strong inclination in media discussion toward merging the concepts of incentive programs (e.g., first to hit the QB buys the beers) and bounty programs (rewards for injuring a QB). Nobody would give a hoot about incentive programs, but most care about bounty programs. And yes, the fact a player might play harder based on an unsanctioned bounty program does call the integrity of the game into question as fans pay to watch players go full tilt, not half speed.

Also, these guys are pros with almost supernatural reflexes. When you have an open shot on a QB, I find it hard to believe that it is impossible to distinguish between a hard hit and a debilitating hit (this has been another common discussion point - how would we plan such a hit?). Debilitating hits on players that can take away careers and livelihoods have been frowned upon (how many thought highly of Kimo von Oelhoffen when his hit was labeled dirty and took out a QB (Carson Palmer) enjoying success against his team - whether the hit was accidental physics or intentional (he was coming off a block, not an open hit)).

 

[OhExaulted1]

Clearly OhExaulted one, you missed the context of my message. I was only referring to the lack of immediate action vs letting it play out in the media. Whatever else you were trying to read into my post is lost on most including me.

Bounties for career ending disabilitng injuries vs. a VHS tape. Clearly you don't realize what the bigger indescreption is.

 

[OhExaulted1]

I dunno, I think most fans recognize that a good coach isn't exactly standing on every street corner. I would never take a draft pick over BB. I think most fans feel like Payton is a good coach and who is to say that if the coach was fired, the next hire wouldn't be someone who completely screws up the team? That's hurting the fans too. Draft picks are not some holy grail. THe team needs to be punished and by definition, fans of that team are going to feel punished too. It is what it is.

Actually draft picks can be the holy grail. We gave up a 1st for Bill.

 

[OhExaulted1]

IF the allegations are proven to be true then this is 100 times worse than spyagate. However it will probably not get the same media attention. Not long term.

Absolutely, but video camera's will always be veiwed as much more dangerous then what happens on the feild.

 

[OhExaulted1]

I'm sorry but we got robbed of 1st in 2000 and got robbed of a 1st in '08. Who else has had it stuck it up their @ss that hard? I feel for ya for Katrina, but that's over and tough *****. Time to pay the piper. RG better follow thru after screwing us, or we should march on Manhatten.

 

[Koma]

Useless Google can't help me locate a reference to it, but I clearly recall in the aftermath of 2007 the league instituted a new procedure that required all members of team management up to ownership level to sign a letter annually stipulating that the team was not in violation of any league rule or directive at the start of each season and requiring them to agree to report any if and when they became aware of them. It was supposed to require accountability to the league on the part of lower management (coaches and assistants including in FO jobs) and place the responsibility on upper management and ownership to ask the questions every season so there would be no claims of plausible deniability (or if there still were someone's ass was getting fired for not notifying chain of command over and above whatever league punishment was inflicted on them for not reporting directly to the league).

So there is that, too.

This article mentions that new guideline:

Goodell proposes plan making cheating penalties easier to impose - NFL - ESPN

Specifically "Another measure would place each franchise's main owner, top executive and head coach under the threat of league discipline to stipulate that they have complied with the rules and reported violations."

I did not see if this proposal was approved, but the idea was out there.

 

[FreeTedWilliams]

alot of talk now about Darren Sharper saying he knows who the snitch is. I'm sure within the next few weeks or so, we will start to hear speculation as to who talked to the NFL. I'm sure we could comb the Saints cuts and transactions to see who might have had an ax to grind. As someone who does this kinda stuff for a living (trying to protect informants), the rule of thumb is the more details you put in your report, the easier it is for the other side to figure out who your source was. I hear the NFL has something like 18,000 page report, so I'm sure that once the Saints get done reading it, they are going to know who turned them in.

On the bright side, at least Mangini will have a freind now......

 

[Brady'sButtBoy]

ESPN's Easterbrook rips the Saints and declares the bounty program "much worse than Spygate." He goes so far to suggest Payton, Williams, et al., deserve as much or more suspension (or even be banned) time than Vick - he hurt dogs, Payton's boys hurt people. Think about that when Payton only gets 4 games as a suspension. Not only did the Saints deceive the NFL, as did Vick, they tried to injure fellow players - human beings. But there's no chance Goodell drops a year on anyone involved with the Saints. We can only hope the draft pick penalty is severe - two firsts, not one.

Saints bounty scandal is worse than Spygate for the example it sets for all other levels of football - ESPN

 

[Joker]

Question: Did you ever do the mash? The Monster Mash?

why yes..yes I did...it was a graveyard smash....our second line of defense was called "the crypt kicker five"...heh...gotta be older than dirt to remember this...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

ESPN's Easterbrook rips the Saints and declares the bounty program "much worse than Spygate." He goes so far to suggest Payton, Williams, et al., deserve as much or more suspension (or even be banned) time than Vick - he hurt dogs, Payton's boys hurt people. Think about that when Payton only gets 4 games as a suspension. Not only did the Saints deceive the NFL, as did Vick, they tried to injure fellow players - human beings. But there's no chance Goodell drops a year on anyone involved with the Saints. We can only hope the draft pick penalty is severe - two firsts, not one.

Saints bounty scandal is worse than Spygate for the example it sets for all other levels of football - ESPN

This is the kind of thing that will create historical perspective on Belichick's transgression...

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Fran Tarkenton weighs in. Worth the quick read. Castigates the bounty system. Tark has special cred because he was an exposed, running QB who faced the old time tough guy defensive greats BEFORE the NFL rules became, how shall I say, kittyfied.

Fran Tarkenton: Football's Bounty Hunters Must Be Clipped - WSJ.com

These bounty systems are despicable.

I played football professionally for 18 years. I played against some of the toughest men imaginable. Mean Joe Greene. Deacon Jones. Bob Lilly. Ray Nitschke. **** Butkus. Jack Youngblood. And I risked getting hit more than any other quarterback of my day. No one ran more than I did—forwards, backwards, and side-to-side.

But in those 18 years, I only missed five games due to injury

 

[Calciumee]

Rex Ryan has said he often has a bounty during the game!

They're his favourite chocolate bar...

(apologies if this joke has already been made, but too many pages to check!)

EDIT: Seems Bounty isn't marketed in the US! So here's a picture!

 

[Deus Irae]

Rex Ryan has said he often has a bounty during the game!

They're his favourite chocolate bar...

(apologies if this joke has already been made, but too many pages to check!)

EDIT: Seems Bounty isn't marketed in the US! So here's a picture!

Those are great, and much better than Mounds or Almond Joy. If you've got British shops (or something similar) in your area, you can sometimes find them selling the Bounty Bars. If you can't find them that way, you can get them on eBay.