NFL investigating Saints for placing bounties on players(merged X2)

[Ring 6]

I was someone on the fence, in the "waiting to learn more" camp about the severity of this. And then I read that the pool included bonuses for forcing a player to be carted off. Yeah... **** them. That's ridiculous.

What makes it serious, from a punishment standpoint, is that they were told to stop, promised to, and didn't. Breaking a rule is one thing, purposely breaking a rule after warning is worse. There is no confusion here that they were not violating a rule.

By the way, if they were out for the entire game, the reward was even more than if they got carted off and could return.

 

[Bella*chick]

I also read, I think from Curran, that at the meeting where BB and Kraft apologized for Spygate everyone took an oath to stop wrongdoing in their organizations. What a joke!

 

[BradyFTW!]

What makes it serious, from a punishment standpoint, is that they were told to stop, promised to, and didn't. Breaking a rule is one thing, purposely breaking a rule after warning is worse. There is no confusion here that they were not violating a rule.

By the way, if they were out for the entire game, the reward was even more than if they got carted off and could return.

Agreed, but my personal opinion, versus what makes something punishable by the league, can diverge fairly significantly (case in point: Spygate). Giving cash bonuses for injuries that require players to be carted off was what, in a pretty visceral sense, turned me. That's just really messed up.

 

[Ring 6]

Agreed, but my personal opinion, versus what makes something punishable by the league, can diverge fairly significantly (case in point: Spygate). Giving cash bonuses for injuries that require players to be carted off was what, in a pretty visceral sense, turned me. That's just really messed up.

Waan't disagreeing with your point, just expanding on it.

 

[JDot]

 

[TheBeers]

Payton and BB both coached in the '07 Probowl and were assistants under Parcells. They know each other quite well.

All kidding and sarcasm aside, this is going to be swept under the rug as much as possible, with some fines and a scapegoat suspension.

Don't be surprised if they don't lose a draft pick either, to the consternation of an outraged, but widely hated Patriots nation.

Remember that the poor, downtrodden city of New Orleans hosts the Superbowl next year, and they'll be crying to Goodell not to spank them too hard.

ESPN will go tsk-tsk. This isn't a New York centric story , so it's small potatoes.

When spygate happened the story absolutely EXPLODED. It had it's own damn category on the espn crawl for weeks. It was beaten to death on every talking heads show in the country for weeks.. and just when we thought it might go away we had some jackazz mediot or steelers/rams/eagles player bringing it back up. I don't have to tell you guys, you know.. It was truly sickening..

I have been thinking the same thing as you about this Saints story. It has hardly being talked about. It's already off espn front page. While I do agree with others that the punishment will be really harsh. I just don't think the media and fans are going to latch onto this like spygate. I also agree with most others here that the two stories are really only comparable in that they are controversial rules infractions by NFL teams. What the Saints did was WAAAAAAAYYYYYY worse IMO.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Jay Glazer just reported that the decision of punishment on the Bounty will be made by Goodell BEFORE the Owner's Meetings and possibly as early as next week.

Lets get this over and done with and move on to Draft and FA talk again.

 

[sly24]

I know a lot of people are complaining about Goodell putting off a decision until the owners meeting, but I can actually understand this.

The ramifications are huge. This doesn't affect just the Saints. It also affects the Rams and Redskins. It affects the Rams because they just hired Williams and it affects the Redskins because of potential salary cap ramifications if Williams put money in the pot there.

Anyone from the Saints defense over the last 3 years is affected. And they have had players move on. So, we're not just talking about 22-27 players. We're talking about more than 30 players and players on other teams.

Let's say, hypothetically, that every player with the exception of Vilma gets a 4 game suspension. The league is likely to allow the Saints to spread them out over the course of the year. Former Saints players on other teams won't be as lucky. Vilma and any other player who threw in large funds for the express intent of targeting a single player should get a 1 year suspension.

Then there is what to do with the money. In this case, they should put the money from the fines into the injured players fund.

Then there is what to do with Williams, Payton, and Loomis. Williams ran this for at least 4 years (one with Washington and 3 with New Orleans). Does he get a 1 year suspension or is he gone for life?

What sort of fines do you hit Payton and Loomis with? Clearly they knew it was going on. Loomis will probably be fired by Benson since Benson gave him a direct order to make sure it was stopped. But I still expect him to be fined. And Payton was clearly complicit in it, but let it continue despite league memos reminding people that Bounties and bounty systems are against the CBA and have been for at least the past 2 CBAs.

If you decapitate the Saints management right before the draft by firing Payton and Loomis, then you put them at a distinct disadvantage. Even if the scouting staff is the same, the coach isn't and he's the one who has to deal with the players.

So, I can fully understand why Goodell is waiting until the owners meeting. People may not like it, but it's actually the right thing to do since this is 1000X bigger than the incident with the Patriots.

Great post. The owner's meeting is in a month or so? Time does a lot.. Goodell probably didn't even sleep over his thoughts for spygate that's why his decision was way too hard. The only thing I'm afraid of is for all this time to soften his decision..

 

[Bella*chick]

Jay Glazer just reported that the decision of punishment on the Bounty will be made by Goodell BEFORE the Owner's Meetings and possibly as early as next week.

Lets get this over and done with and move on to Draft and FA talk again.

I wonder what caused the change?

 

[jcdavey]

I wonder what caused the change?

well he may want to make a decision early as possible as to let new orleans pick up the pieces in time for free agency and the draft


i mean if he waits a whole month then makes a decision on suspensions/fines/ draft pick forfeiture, then new orleans has even less time to scramble to fix holes that were just created


by having the punishment happen sooner, new orleans will at least have free agency to fix some new holes, and have an extra month to strategize for the draft , in selecting positions for who they might be about to lose


or maybe he really will take their tag away and brees will become a FA and he wants to make that known before FA begins

 

[blackglass3]

If he wanted to sweep it under the rug, they would have announced the infraction and the penalty at the same time.

However, as much as people want to say this is worse than Spygate it will not get nearly the amount of attention unless something really juicy comes out Monday morning.

 

[Gumby]

One aspect that no one seems to be focusing on much here is the part about outside money.

Guys from outside the organization were putting money into a pot to encourage team members to knowingly do actions against the rules to take out opposing players. hmmmmm.....

What kind of guys might want to do that?????.....hmmmmm

Maybe somebody with a lot of cash in a certain city in Nevada????


Now we all know that the NFL has a certain relationship with odds makers etc. Otherwise we wouldnt have something like the injury report would we? But they have to keep a certain distance or else we are looking at the 1919 White Sox. So that too should lead to a heavy penalty.

 

[dizi24]

or maybe he really will take their tag away and brees will become a FA and he wants to make that known before FA begins

Goddel is not going to ruin a franchise over this.

It's maddening that the media has already let this go while the media has been dragging the Patriots through the mud for 4 years now. But at least we can get back to FA and the draft now, aka football.

 

[Gumby]

If he wanted to sweep it under the rug, they would have announced the infraction and the penalty at the same time.

However, as much as people want to say this is worse than Spygate it will not get nearly the amount of attention unless something really juicy comes out Monday morning.

Not necessarily.

I think there is a good chance this is probably a bit more widespread. The suggestion about Sexy-Rexy and Fisher seems pretty likely to me & who knows who else. I am sure Goodell is going to want to cap this off and get it buried before it spirals up into 3 or god forbid 6-8+ teams. But he can't make a decision til he sees how far it spreads beyond the one team.

If he just goes off and punishes the Saints and then it breaks about the other teams; he will have to match the punishments in the others too. And if he has to start doing suspensions of large numbers of players/coaches it will definitely affect the quality of the product on the field.

 

[jcdavey]

Goddel is not going to ruin a franchise over this.

It's maddening that the media has already let this go while the media has been dragging the Patriots through the mud for 4 years now. But at least we can get back to FA and the draft now, aka football.

well you have to remember , the season's over, this didn't happen during the season

there isn't constant nfl coverage right now

plus it's new orleans

they won a sb, but they've been bounced from the playoffs rather unceremoniously the past couple years.

they're not the franchise that a patriots are, plus they're in new orleans, not a boston.

plus they're just the saints.....

 

[jcdavey]

Not necessarily.

I think there is a good chance this is probably a bit more widespread. The suggestion about Sexy-Rexy and Fisher seems pretty likely to me & who knows who else. I am sure Goodell is going to want to cap this off and get it buried before it spirals up into 3 or god forbid 6-8+ teams. But he can't make a decision til he sees how far it spreads beyond the one team.

If he just goes off and punishes the Saints and then it breaks about the other teams; he will have to match the punishments in the others too. And if he has to start doing suspensions of large numbers of players/coaches it will definitely affect the quality of the product on the field.

who knows who is being investigated right now

apparently this investigation lasted , what? at least two years they said??

 

[ProudestRyno]

Went to the Pats-Saints game last year, and the Saints fans couldn't have been nicer*

*my brother and I got to New Orleans at 10am that Monday, were on Burbon St. by noon, since it was a Monday, all the bars were having "3 for one" specials, seven hours and many beers and belly shots from half naked cokctails waitresses later, we went into the Superdome, so my memories of that day could be a bit fuzzy.

I went to a Falcons-Saints MNF game in 2010 and Saints fans were EXTREMELY obnoxious. For the most part, they are a bunch of bandwagoners that really aren't that knowledgeable about the team they just starting rooting for.

Yeah, yeah, I know every team has bandwagon fans (especially our beloved Pats), but IMO the Saints have them in a much higher number and they're extremely obnoxious.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

Re: Breaking: Saints Break Bounty Rule

It won't be bigger than spygate because the New Yorkers at ESPN won't have it in for the Saints. Sad but true.

EXACTLY! NAILED IT! Joke reporting. No experience needed just hate.

 

[Jackson 2]

I went to a Falcons-Saints MNF game in 2010 and Saints fans were EXTREMELY obnoxious. For the most part, they are a bunch of bandwagoners that really aren't that knowledgeable about the team they just starting rooting for.

Yeah, yeah, I know every team has bandwagon fans (especially our beloved Pats), but IMO the Saints have them in a much higher number and they're extremely obnoxious.

I was at the Pats/Saints game in NO Thanksgiving week-end in 09 (we were there from Fri-Tues) and I found the Saints fans to be rabid, yet largely respectful. We were in the Superdome with Pats gear on for the Monday Night game and the Saints just buried the Pats. Their fans were pretty gracious to us the entire time we we were there, including during and after the game. I'm not disputing your experience, but ours was different. Of course, yours was a year after they'd won the SB, so it may very well have changed.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Now news is coming out that former Bills players are confirming that when Williams was the Bill's HC (2001-2003) they too had a bounty system that rewarded injuring opposing players. Since he learned the behavior during his stindt with the Houston Oilers when Buddy Ryan was the HC, and Williams went on to be the DC when they became the Tennessee Titans, it's not a stretch to expect to hear confirmation (beyond Dungy) that the practice was also in place there. Would be awesome to see some of the dirt rub off on Fisher. Doubt the league can allow these to to co exist in St. Louis after this...