NFL flip-flops, says Hobbs call was correct

[mtbykr]

If anyone cares to rewind previous championship games, they'll see the Patriots were on the wrong end of a lot of calls by the refs. Especially the games against Pittsburgh, I can recall catches by receivers ruled incomplete, and fumbles that were clear ruled down. Look at the Denver game last year and all the calls against the Patriots, or the bad calls in the Chargers game (fumbles ruled incomplete passes). Over the last few years, I've seen most judgement calls go against the Patriots. The tuck rule was also a judgement call, ultimately, and in the end the Patriots prevailed on that one, but you should know that the Patriots record was directly impacted that year by a loss to the Jets because of the tuck rule. Our playoff path would have been entirely different had we won that game.

No one here is complaining that Indy won unfairly. They deserved to win the game. We're talking about the NFL's attempts to whitewash bad refereeing. You shouldn't talk in that case, because your organization whines about the refs more than any other in professional football.

Bingo, we got bingo!

 

[The Dog]

Any person who claims the Pats got the bad end of calls in their run of success is ignorant. You are too much of a homer and should be forced to watch Raiders games. I can't think of a worse punishment than watching the worst team I have ever seen. Maybe become a Lions fan. Just shut up about bad calls. Was the Hobbs call a bad one maybe. The Caldwell call or lack there of has happened in reverse in the Pats favor dozens of times. Can't have it both ways.

 

[Oswlek]

Any person who claims the Pats got the bad end of calls in their run of success is ignorant. You are too much of a homer and should be forced to watch Raiders games. I can't think of a worse punishment than watching the worst team I have ever seen. Maybe become a Lions fan. Just shut up about bad calls. Was the Hobbs call a bad one maybe. The Caldwell call or lack there of has happened in reverse in the Pats favor dozens of times. Can't have it both ways.

Uhhh.....

This is a common misconception held forth by those who are either ignorant or envious.

NE certainly held in the secondary in the 2003 AFCCG, but not any more than Indy's OL did. And the game was called the exact same for both teams. BTW, the only play that even resembled the Cladwell play in that game was the 4th down pass to Pollard. What I have never seen anyone mention is that the reason his left arm was held was because he blatantly tried to push off with it. NE's LB was just smart enough to grab hold of Pollard's wrist so he couldn't get any seperation.

Other than the "tuck rule" can you tell me a singled play that was obviously called incorrectly in the 2001 playoffs? And even that one, albeit controversial, was called correctly.

In the 2004 playoffs, can you tell me a single play that NE had called in their favor? The only one that I even heard a peep about was defensive holding of Kevin Faulk, and that one was by Pitt fans only.

IN actuallity, ever since NE's magical run in 2001 (where I will certainly admit that Lady Luck smiled upon them) NE has been getting anything but favorable calls. For every single call that you feel NE erroneously go in their favor, I can tell you about 5 or 6 that were far worse that went against them.

 

[upstater1]

Any person who claims the Pats got the bad end of calls in their run of success is ignorant. You are too much of a homer and should be forced to watch Raiders games. I can't think of a worse punishment than watching the worst team I have ever seen. Maybe become a Lions fan. Just shut up about bad calls. Was the Hobbs call a bad one maybe. The Caldwell call or lack there of has happened in reverse in the Pats favor dozens of times. Can't have it both ways.

I gave you examples. You give me squat. What team do you root for?

Here's the mind of a non-Pats fan: "The Patriots got by on the tuck rule [during a divisional playoff] therefore they get all the calls."

This is just pure idiocy.

 

[The Dog]

The Pats were guilty of defensive holding or pass interference constantly. It was so bad that the NFL realized their mistake and made it a point of emphasis. It happened in games against the Titans, Colts(2 games), and Rams. Not to mention this year against SD. Anyone who doesn't freely admit that has his head in the sand. There is no way the NFL makes these calls a point of emphasis if it isnt true. STFU upstater and Oswelk. You are both homers, who clearly have an infantile knowledge of the game.

 

[Bella*chick]

The Pats were guilty of defensive holding or pass interference constantly. It was so bad that the NFL realized their mistake and made it a point of emphasis. It happened in games against the Titans, Colts(2 games), and Rams. Not to mention this year against SD. Anyone who doesn't freely admit that has his head in the sand. There is no way the NFL makes these calls a point of emphasis if it isnt true. STFU upstater and Oswelk. You are both homers, who clearly have an infantile knowledge of the game.

Yes, the NFL realized it alllll on their own. A blowhard named Bill Polian had nothing to do with it.

Anyone who doesn't freely admit you are a total moron has their head in the sand.

 

[The Dog]

Yeah you're right the NFL always changes things just because a big baby like Polian complains. If that were really the case there would be rule changes all the time. People, not just Polian, are always complaining about rule interpretations. The lack of admittance by pats fans of help by officials is why Pats fans are the least liked by other teams. It is not the team that people dislike, maybe a couple of cheap shot artists, it is the fans. Patriot fans are clearly some of the least knowledgable in the NFL. I find that ironic since many are also red Sox fans, who are clearly among the most knowledgable fans in baseball.

 

[MTaylorJ1]

I find that ironic since many are also red Sox fans, who are clearly among the most knowledgable fans in baseball.

While they do have some very knowledgable fans, not only is this not a situation where the word "clearly" applies, its just downright false.

You'll also find that the die-hard Patriots fans in a lot of cases aren't die-hard Red Sox fans.

You'll also find that teams that have prolonged success in any league find themselves both amongst the most loved AND the most hated. What people aren't towards those teams is indifferent.

Also its different when the person complaining is on the rule committee. I could complain about a particular rule until I'm red in the face, but that's not going to change anything. The same goes for you, unless you "the Dog" are in fact Bill Polian himself.

 

[scott c]

polians gay,peytons gay,the nfl refs are gay..............breaks your heart to see such a waste of a season because of fixed refs..............calling bad plays.............fire them all..................

 

[The Dog]

Mtaylor I am speaking in general terms. No team has an entire intelligent fan base. Generally speaking Red Sox fans are knowledgeable and Patriot fans are not. There is also a large overlap between the 2 groups, but obviously inclusion on one doesn't automatically put you on the other. It is true that teams are polarizing when they are successful. I didn't say that, I said it is the fans of the Pats that are disliked, not the team. Anyone who thinks that the NFL did not review the lack of defensive calls following the Pats wins is a moron. They did not make rules a point of emphasis because people complained, they made them a point of emphasis because the rules were being ignored. The pats were handed a win in the divisional round when samuel was not called for interference on the next to last drive of the game for SD. You fans will never admit that because you are too biased to see reality.

 

[mtbykr]

Mtaylor I am speaking in general terms. No team has an entire intelligent fan base. Generally speaking Red Sox fans are knowledgeable and Patriot fans are not. There is also a large overlap between the 2 groups, but obviously inclusion on one doesn't automatically put you on the other. It is true that teams are polarizing when they are successful. I didn't say that, I said it is the fans of the Pats that are disliked, not the team. Anyone who thinks that the NFL did not review the lack of defensive calls following the Pats wins is a moron. They did not make rules a point of emphasis because people complained, they made them a point of emphasis because the rules were being ignored. The pats were handed a win in the divisional round when samuel was not called for interference on the next to last drive of the game for SD. You fans will never admit that because you are too biased to see reality.

Anyone who thinks that pats get the calls please review these (they're short) provided by Michael in another thread:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRvQU27h8rQ


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKXBmB5TQzs


The difference in past years is that we have been able to overcome the bad calls...It wasn't the case the last 2 years. (Look at how the squealers overcame the lousy calls in indy last year) Now again I am not saying that's why we lost the games (the main reason this year was that we were not able to keep anyone better than 4th strigners playing D in the 2nd half) however it obviously had a big factor in the game.

They did not make rules a point of emphasis because people complained, they made them a point of emphasis because the rules were being ignored.

Nice try but the "competition committee" did make it a point, and I wonder who is on that committee Every team is going to have calls that are close go their way and some not go their way, that's just the nature of the game. However it's pretty obvious that ever since Napolian started the whining process years ago the NFL has gone out of thier way to call NE for anything resembling PI (in other words if the refs not sure, call it to be safe)

 

[MTaylorJ1]

Mtaylor I am speaking in general terms. No team has an entire intelligent fan base. Generally speaking Red Sox fans are knowledgeable and Patriot fans are not. There is also a large overlap between the 2 groups, but obviously inclusion on one doesn't automatically put you on the other. It is true that teams are polarizing when they are successful. I didn't say that, I said it is the fans of the Pats that are disliked, not the team. Anyone who thinks that the NFL did not review the lack of defensive calls following the Pats wins is a moron. They did not make rules a point of emphasis because people complained, they made them a point of emphasis because the rules were being ignored. The pats were handed a win in the divisional round when samuel was not called for interference on the next to last drive of the game for SD. You fans will never admit that because you are too biased to see reality.

Funny, no one seemed to have a problem with Patriots fans before Belichick got here and the team became the elite franchise in the league the last 5-6 years.

You're right though, when people think of intelligent football fans, I mean Chicago, Green Bay, and of course San Diego. That's who comes to everyone's mind. I'm also a big fan of statements that can't be backed up with ANY sort of fact. The Patriots are amongst the least intelligent fanbases (I actually scored quite well on my football S.A.T's) and This is why everyone else hates the Patriots (Did reuters take a poll on this? Or was this a straw poll from SDSUPERDUPERCHARGERFANS.com/org)



Fact of the matter is, the two teams that kept bringing up defensive holding to the rules comittee were Indianapolis and St. Louis those teams have a few things in common don't they?

But you could see how a Patriots fan could be sensitve about the officials. I mean the referees BLEW the tuck rule call which basically allowed ALL of the INTELLIGENT fanbases to mock our SB 36 win. When in fact it was a simple personal foul for a blow to the head. Much like was called on TBC in the AFCC.

 

[PatsMyBoyz!]

This 'flip-flop" makes the refs/NFL look like a joke. I don't even remember how the story got out in the first place (an interview in the Jags site wasn't it?) but for the NFL to completely contradict what was said during that interview is what's foolish and suspect.Had they just shut up,we wouldn't still be having this conversation.
No matter who you root for you should be concerned about things like this because your team could be next. And for those criticizing Pats fans for disliking this situation--I find it hard to believe you wouldn't be saying the exact same things said here. If there are any suspect calls made during the SB,I guess we won't be hearing any complaints from those fans,will we.

 

[Oswlek]

Mtaylor I am speaking in general terms. No team has an entire intelligent fan base. Generally speaking Red Sox fans are knowledgeable and Patriot fans are not. There is also a large overlap between the 2 groups, but obviously inclusion on one doesn't automatically put you on the other. It is true that teams are polarizing when they are successful. I didn't say that, I said it is the fans of the Pats that are disliked, not the team. Anyone who thinks that the NFL did not review the lack of defensive calls following the Pats wins is a moron. They did not make rules a point of emphasis because people complained, they made them a point of emphasis because the rules were being ignored. The pats were handed a win in the divisional round when samuel was not called for interference on the next to last drive of the game for SD. You fans will never admit that because you are too biased to see reality.

1) They did "emphasize" the rules because people complained, namely Polian, Dungy, Gruden and Martz. Lo and behold, they all have something in common, don't they? For someone who chastises NE fans for not seeing the forest for the trees, you seem to be overlooking something yourself.

2) There is not a single Pats fan who will deny that NE got away with some uncalled penalties against Indy. However, I have to ask, why was there no point of emphasis on Indy's "obvious during live action" holds that went uncalled? Or the two plays that the play clock was on zero for three full seconds prior to the ball being snapped? Where was the emphasis on those plays?

3) I am assuming you are a Colts fan. If you are going to say that NE was given the SD due to a Samuel PI that wasn't called (when SD would still have had to drive 30 yards to just get into FG position) then I also have to assume that you admit that Indy was given the AFCCG. Samuel's was not nearly as eggregious as either the noncalls on Caldwell or Graham, and NE was much closer to scoring position on both of those plays.

So what say you? Did the NFL "give" Indy the game? You cannot say one without the other.

 

[BigEZPatsFan76]

The lack of admittance by pats fans of help by officials is why Pats fans are the least liked by other teams. It is not the team that people dislike, maybe a couple of cheap shot artists, it is the fans. Patriot fans are clearly some of the least knowledgable in the NFL. I find that ironic since many are also red Sox fans, who are clearly among the most knowledgable fans in baseball.

Try again, the Patriots are disliked because of their unparalleled SUCCESS in the 2000's. The fact that they did it in this era of free agency, salary caps, etc. makes it even more astonishing. It has plenty of the league scratching their heads, because they do not have the capacitance to equate it. So, hell, since we can't beat them, let's change the rules to "level" the playing field per Bill Polian. Still, they came within an eyelash of a 4th SB appearance in 6 years, with all that was going against them (west coast trip against a physical SD, flu, rash of injuries, dome).


Cheap shot artists? Name them. Nowhere have I seen this brought up before.


I am sorry I must have missed the memo stating that you were the "expert" in deciding who is the most "knowledgable" fans. Where did you get that bit from? Bill Polian? LT? Marty Schottenheimer? Jim Rome? Some "poll" that questioned 1000 people in Indianapolis or New York? A handful of "fans" who hate the Patriots to begin with?



EZ76

 

[Pat_Nasty]

After finally being able to get hold of a video of that play (thanks, Sarge!) I'm not sure what the right call should be.

There were two moments of contact between Wayne and Hobbs before the ball arrived. The first was Hobbs hand literally brushing Wayne's upper arm as Wayne is about to leap in the air. As this contact was so light and momentary as to be in no way a possible hindrance to Wayne's catching the ball, I assume this is not what was called.

The second contact was between Hobbs' facemask and Wayne's wrist, as Wayne is jumping for the ball. The contact between Hobbs' facemask and Wayne's wrist prevents Wayne from reaching out for the ball with both hands. Is this interefence? I honestly don't know. On one hand, Hobbs is not playing the ball, and his head prevents Wayne from being able to reach the ball. On the other hand, the contact between the two players is initiated by Wayne, as he is the one reaching out with his arm for the ball.

Ultimately, I believe that the contact between Hobbs' head and Wayne's arm does take this call out the realm of "misinterpreted rule," and makes the call defendable by the NFL. If a corner uses his helmet to hit another player's arm to prevent a catch, it's certainly pass interference. Though I don't think this is what's happening here, the fact that head-to-arm contact occurs makes this your typical pass interference "judgment call."

Moral of the story: pass interference needs to be reviewable, despite being a "judgment call" by the ref. The line between offensive and defensive interference and incidental contact are so fine that it's absurd that we would prefer a call made at full speed over one made in slow motion.

 

[BradyManny]

The contact between Hobbs' facemask and Wayne's wrist prevents Wayne from reaching out for the ball with both hands. Is this interefence? I honestly don't know..

No, I definitely don't think it is. A DB has as much right to play for the ball as the WR does, something refs seem to forget these days thanks to Bill Polian. We can't ask DBs to get "out of the way" of WRs.

 

[AdamJT13]

No, I definitely don't think it is. A DB has as much right to play for the ball as the WR does, something refs seem to forget these days thanks to Bill Polian. We can't ask DBs to get "out of the way" of WRs.

That's the problem -- Hobbs wasn't playing the ball.

 

[upstater1]

The Pats were guilty of defensive holding or pass interference constantly. It was so bad that the NFL realized their mistake and made it a point of emphasis. It happened in games against the Titans, Colts(2 games), and Rams. Not to mention this year against SD. Anyone who doesn't freely admit that has his head in the sand. There is no way the NFL makes these calls a point of emphasis if it isnt true. STFU upstater and Oswelk. You are both homers, who clearly have an infantile knowledge of the game.

What a crybaby. Get Polian to complain again when you guys lose to the Bears.

 

[DaBruinz]

The Pats were guilty of defensive holding or pass interference constantly. It was so bad that the NFL realized their mistake and made it a point of emphasis. It happened in games against the Titans, Colts(2 games), and Rams. Not to mention this year against SD. Anyone who doesn't freely admit that has his head in the sand. There is no way the NFL makes these calls a point of emphasis if it isnt true. STFU upstater and Oswelk. You are both homers, who clearly have an infantile knowledge of the game.

TheDOG -
Before you go talking about a situation, you really should know wtf you are talking about. In this case you DON'T. The NFL made it a point of EMPHASIS not because of the Patriots, but because of the DOLPHINS. When they discussed it that off-season, there was only ONE example used of the Patriots and that example was Ty Law in some obscure game. 90% of the examples used were of Sam Madison and Patrick Surtain.

You are the one with your head in the sand. Can you cite specific plays in the SD game you are referring to? Hell, did you even WATCH the SD game?

Now, TheDog, before you go slamming people on here, you should know WTF you are talking about. OSWLEK and UPSTARTER have shown that more football knowledge in their posts than you have in ANY of yours.

During the SB38 run, some Pats fans on the ESPN board counted up all the calls/non-calls that went against the Patriots that were "marginal" or just plain wrong and it totalled something like 85 for the entire season. Compared to about 30-35 calls that went in favor of the Patriots. And its been pretty consistent since then.