NFL executives offer their take on the Patriots and the trade possibilities for Jimmy Garoppolo

[1960Pats]

Go take a look at the National League in baseball from last year. Both wild card teams came from the same division, and both of them had better records than the two other division winners. Nobody got up in arms or lost their mind over it.

I don't follow baseball anymore, but just for you I will "go take a look at the National League in baseball from last year" and, as General MacArthur once proclaimed about the Phillipines, I shall return.

 

[Ivan]

I agree. You never want to underestimate Tom Brady. But the troubling thing about father time (aside from being inevitable) is that it often strikes precipitously, without warning.

In a short span of time, QBs can go from playing at elite, even historic levels, to seeing their body deteriorate and their skill decline. Recently, Peyton Manning went from throwing 55 touchdowns and passing for 5,0000+ yards, to becoming a former shell of himself in just over a year.

Granted, much of that decline was the accumulation of injuries Manning had suffered. Whereas Brady takes exceptional care of his health and has an intense dietary, fitness program to keep him in shape.

But as much as he might try, I think Brady will succumb to the physical toll of a violent, contact sport like football - and it might happen sooner than we think.

Disagree on this, the injury is either traumatic and directly leads to the end of the career or it is an accumulation and you see the QB slowly deteriorate, like Montana and most others.Brady is very possibly in the best condition he's ever been in and actually looks like a better athlete now than he was ten years ago. He moves better,maintains his balance while throwing better, and avoids hits better than ever and his accuracy and arm strength are as good or better than ever. In short he's playing the best football of his career the past three years and he is in the top 5 of top 100 players every season. As much as I like Garrapolo if a team makes the right offer he's the one headed out of town, Belichick will never trade Brady while he is still playing at the top of his game. It will take either a high first or a first plus another high pick to get NE to take the bait,otherwise they will play it out and tag and trade him. The only exception would be if Brady told them in advance when he is hanging them up and I don't see that happening any time soon.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Ivan I have to see more Brady this year to say he looks like a better athlete at 39 than at 29... but I'm skeptical. On the other hand...

At what age does a man reach his physical peak?

Now it's interesting that according to the above, peak muscle mass happens in your 30s not your 20s, and it's alertness and metabolism that happens at around age 25. I guess drive and treating your physical condition as super-important can help deal with that... I don't think Tom has "senior moments" on the field LOL... and I think he sees the field better than any other QB out there, including pocket presence... so if his "alertness" peaked at 25, he shows no signs of it.

I saw one bandwagoner saying on the first page that he hopes Brady and BB retire together, thereby in his mind saying FU to goodell or something.

Yeah well, FU to the bandwagoners. I'm watching this team until they pull my plug, if there's still money for life support by the time I'm old enough for that. I didn't start watching when Brady came along, and I'm not going to stop watching when he retires or moves on, voluntarily or otherwise.

I sense that most people here take the team the same way, and that's why I'm here.

You guys who are here only because of Brady, fine, nice, eat some wings, have a beer, enjoy your stay, move on to the next host body when you're done. It's been nice having you around, but it'll also be nice to see what the core of the fanbase is when you've moved on.

Of course, the Jimmy G upside scenario would have most of the bandwagoners sticking around LOL... and I'm cool with that too.

 

[1960Pats]

Go take a look at the National League in baseball from last year. Both wild card teams came from the same division, and both of them had better records than the two other division winners. Nobody got up in arms or lost their mind over it.

Okay, I'm baaaaaack.

First. The big difference. MLB has three 5 team divisions (like football had for many years) as opposed to the four 4 team divisions in the FUFL. That alone will decrease the chance that a team with a worse record can get into the playoffs.

Second. The bigger difference. The example you gave showed that the two wildcards and three division winners had the top 5 best records in MLB. Nobody has a beef then.

Now you can go take a look at the history of the FUFL in the 4 team 4 division era. Never mind. I did it for you. This idiotic setup started in 2002. These are the results;

2002 thru 2007 - There were teams that needed to use tie breakers but no teams with a worse record made the playoffs during the first 6 years of the PEDton realignment.
2008 - The fun started. The 8-8 SD Chargers went to the playoffs while the 11-5 Pats stayed home. At least SD beat them that year.
2009 - There were only ties that needed to use tiebreakers.
2010 - One of my favorite seasons. Seattle goes 7-9 but wins the vaunted NFCW, while the 10-6 Giants and TB stay home with their fans. The Giants beat Seattle 41-7 and TB beat them 38-15 that year.
2011 - the 8-8 Broncos are in for winning the AFCW while the Titans are out at 9-7, even though one of those wins was vs the Broncos.
2012 - Another year off from the stupidity.
2013 - The 8-7-1 Packers get to go to the dance while the 10-6 Arizona team and it's fans stay home.
2014 - The 7-8-1 Panthers get a chance at a ring while 10-6 Philly is out. Philly crushed the Panthers 45-21 during the season.
2015 - The 10-6 Jets are out and 9-7 Houston is in. As was the case with the Pats and SD in 2008, at least Houston beat the Jets, but it still doesn't change the fact that the Jets had more wins.

That means that for the first 6 years this realignment had no teams that made the playoffs with a worse record, but for the next 8 years it has happened 6 times. I won't even get into the amount of games hosted by teams with worse records than the teams they hosted. That's a thread all it's own.

 

[jah]

Okay, I'm baaaaaack.

First. The big difference. MLB has three 5 team divisions (like football had for many years) as opposed to the four 4 team divisions in the FUFL. That alone will decrease the chance that a team with a worse record can get into the playoffs.

Second. The bigger difference. The example you gave showed that the two wildcards and three division winners had the top 5 best records in MLB. Nobody has a beef then.

Now you can go take a look at the history of the FUFL in the 4 team 4 division era. Never mind. I did it for you. This idiotic setup started in 2002. These are the results;

2002 thru 2007 - There were teams that needed to use tie breakers but no teams with a worse record made the playoffs during the first 6 years of the PEDton realignment.
2008 - The fun started. The 8-8 SD Chargers went to the playoffs while the 11-5 Pats stayed home. At least SD beat them that year.
2009 - There were only ties that needed to use tiebreakers.
2010 - One of my favorite seasons. Seattle goes 7-9 but wins the vaunted NFCW, while the 10-6 Giants and TB stay home with their fans. The Giants beat Seattle 41-7 and TB beat them 38-15 that year.
2011 - the 8-8 Broncos are in for winning the AFCW while the Titans are out at 9-7, even though one of those wins was vs the Broncos.
2012 - Another year off from the stupidity.
2013 - The 8-7-1 Packers get to go to the dance while the 10-6 Arizona team and it's fans stay home.
2014 - The 7-8-1 Panthers get a chance at a ring while 10-6 Philly is out. Philly crushed the Panthers 45-21 during the season.
2015 - The 10-6 Jets are out and 9-7 Houston is in. As was the case with the Pats and SD in 2008, at least Houston beat the Jets, but it still doesn't change the fact that the Jets had more wins.

That means that for the first 6 years this realignment had no teams that made the playoffs with a worse record, but for the next 8 years it has happened 6 times. I won't even get into the amount of games hosted by teams with worse records than the teams they hosted. That's a thread all it's own.

People keep bringing up just taking the top 6 records in each conference to the playoffs, but I do think divisional winners should be rewarded with a spot. Why not just seed based on record so the bad teams play on the road?

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

I agree. You never want to underestimate Tom Brady. But the troubling thing about father time (aside from being inevitable) is that it often strikes precipitously, without warning.

In a short span of time, QBs can go from playing at elite, even historic levels, to seeing their body deteriorate and their skill decline. Recently, Peyton Manning went from throwing 55 touchdowns and passing for 5,0000+ yards, to becoming a former shell of himself in just over a year.

Granted, much of that decline was the accumulation of injuries Manning had suffered. Whereas Brady takes exceptional care of his health and has an intense dietary, fitness program to keep him in shape.

But as much as he might try, I think Brady will succumb to the physical toll of a violent, contact sport like football - and it might happen sooner than we think.

If only there was a way to explain Manning's exceptional recovery from a lost season followed by a precipitous decline.

 

[1960Pats]

People keep bringing up just taking the top 6 records in each conference to the playoffs, but I do think divisional winners should be rewarded with a spot. Why not just seed based on record so the bad teams play on the road?

For six of the last eight years, four of the last five years and the last three in a row, a team with a worse record has gone to the playoffs while other teams and their fans have sat home in spite of a better record and (in may cases) head-to-head wins over that team.

That's what happens when a team only has to have a better record than 3 of the remaining 15 teams in their conference to be declared a "division winner" and get into the playoffs.

I can't wait to see what record the AFCS and NFCS winners will have this year. Those divisions suck.

 

[1960Pats]

If only there was a way to explain Manning's exceptional recovery from a lost season followed by a precipitous decline.

Maybe it was related to his wife's medical issues. Once she got her HGH he could relax and just play.

 

[aluminum seats]

If only there was a way to explain Manning's exceptional recovery from a lost season followed by a precipitous decline.

It's puzzling to me that this point has to be continually brought up on a patriots fan board…

I suppose it's to our credit that we try to be neutral, but Mannings HGH use and then discontinuation is pretty damn obvious. We seem to have posters discounting that to support an argument about quarterbacks always precipitously declining.

Brady ain't Manning.

 

[NashuaPats]

It's puzzling to me that this point has to be continually brought up on a patriots fan board…

I suppose it's to our credit that we try to be neutral, but Mannings HGH use and then discontinuation is pretty damn obvious. We seem to have posters discounting that to support an argument about quarterbacks always precipitously declining.

Brady ain't Manning.

Yup and the idea that his wife was getting shipments of HGH from a shady strip mall in Miami is mind numbingly dumb. Peyton could barely throw the ball, could barely even workout for a year, and then suddenly played the best football of his life. Then suddenly dramatically declined when the NFL began testing for the substance. It is so obvious what happened.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

When Brady does decide to retire, I wonder if David Ortiz's last season will impact his decision. Any great athlete wants to either go out like Ortiz with a great season rather than hang on until the very last moment like Willie Mays hitting about .200 for the 1973 Mets as a shell of his former self.....
When the time comes that his skills diminish ( hopefully many years off but let's be realistic). I have a feeling it may be like Bruschi's retirement where he had a meeting with Belichick and then announced it.. or pull an Elway/Manning and walk away a winner after hoisting the Lombardi trophy...

 

[VJCPatriot]

Is Jimmy G worth two 1st round picks?
Well just ask the now 3-1 Philadelphia Eagles.

Getting the QB in place is crucial. What price did they pay for Carson Wentz?
#8 1st round pick in 2016, 1st round pick in 2017, 2nd round pick in 2018. And they get back a 2017 4th rounder.

 

[PScottman]

People keep bringing up just taking the top 6 records in each conference to the playoffs, but I do think divisional winners should be rewarded with a spot. Why not just seed based on record so the bad teams play on the road?

If they dissolved the divisions and created each new season schedule based on previous years' finishes the "top 6" plan might work. There could easily be a balance where they play certain rivalry teams more frequently, but if the desire is top teams make the playoffs, there are methods to achieve that end state.

However, there's money in the divisions too - insert hatred of the Jets here or Rex Ryan's buffoonery as a way to increase attendance, viewership, etc. Monolithic enterprises only like "well controlled" and focused grouped change, so an idea like this - next to impossible.

 

[aluminum seats]

When Brady does decide to retire, I wonder if David Ortiz's last season will impact his decision. Any great athlete wants to either go out like Ortiz with a great season rather than hang on until the very last moment like Willie Mays hitting about .200 for the 1973 Mets as a shell of his former self.....
When the time comes that his skills diminish ( hopefully many years off but let's be realistic). I have a feeling it may be like Bruschi's retirement where he had a meeting with Belichick and then announced it.. or pull an Elway/Manning and walk away a winner after hoisting the Lombardi trophy...

I hate the way Ortiz left.

Sportswriters are always urging guys to retire, it's a weird thing. Retire at the top of your game! Why? I say be a warrior carried out on your shield…give all you have. Walking away when you still have something to offer to the game that you love is, in my opinion, asinine.

 

[bruinator]

I hate the way Ortiz left.

Sportswriters are always urging guys to retire, it's a weird thing. Retire at the top of your game! Why? I say be a warrior carried out on your shield…give all you have. Walking away when you still have something to offer to the game that you love is, in my opinion, asinine.

LOL, that is the issue, Ortiz wants to be able to walk as he ages. His feet are so sore it takes hours of rehab before each game to enable him to play.

 

[Deus Irae]

Okay, I'm baaaaaack.

First. The big difference. MLB has three 5 team divisions (like football had for many years) as opposed to the four 4 team divisions in the FUFL. That alone will decrease the chance that a team with a worse record can get into the playoffs.

Second. The bigger difference. The example you gave showed that the two wildcards and three division winners had the top 5 best records in MLB. Nobody has a beef then.

Now you can go take a look at the history of the FUFL in the 4 team 4 division era. Never mind. I did it for you. This idiotic setup started in 2002. These are the results;

2002 thru 2007 - There were teams that needed to use tie breakers but no teams with a worse record made the playoffs during the first 6 years of the PEDton realignment.
2008 - The fun started. The 8-8 SD Chargers went to the playoffs while the 11-5 Pats stayed home. At least SD beat them that year.
2009 - There were only ties that needed to use tiebreakers.
2010 - One of my favorite seasons. Seattle goes 7-9 but wins the vaunted NFCW, while the 10-6 Giants and TB stay home with their fans. The Giants beat Seattle 41-7 and TB beat them 38-15 that year.
2011 - the 8-8 Broncos are in for winning the AFCW while the Titans are out at 9-7, even though one of those wins was vs the Broncos.
2012 - Another year off from the stupidity.
2013 - The 8-7-1 Packers get to go to the dance while the 10-6 Arizona team and it's fans stay home.
2014 - The 7-8-1 Panthers get a chance at a ring while 10-6 Philly is out. Philly crushed the Panthers 45-21 during the season.
2015 - The 10-6 Jets are out and 9-7 Houston is in. As was the case with the Pats and SD in 2008, at least Houston beat the Jets, but it still doesn't change the fact that the Jets had more wins.

That means that for the first 6 years this realignment had no teams that made the playoffs with a worse record, but for the next 8 years it has happened 6 times. I won't even get into the amount of games hosted by teams with worse records than the teams they hosted. That's a thread all it's own.

There is no difference with regards to the better team not making it. What I responded to was your post saying

What has bothered me the most is the creation of these 4 team "divisions" in which a team only needs to have a better record than 3 of 15 other teams to make the playoffs, no matter what their record may be, and even if they were blown out by a team with a better record.

When the FUFL first came up with this brainstorm (I think to help rescue PEDton from the AFCE and to give him a free ride to the playoffs) there weren't many teams getting in with worse records than other teams. Over the last few years it has happened more often. That's just plain preposterous.

In baseball, as with football, crappy division winners get in, regardless of just how crappy they are. What is different in baseball is the length of the season, which helps to sort out the teams over a longer haul, even though the same flaw still remains in the end.

 

[aluminum seats]

LOL, that is the issue, Ortiz wants to be able to walk as he ages. His feet are so sore it takes hours of rehab before each game to enable him to play.

Lose the LOL.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

Shefter was basically repeating what NFL execs were saying back in October... that Jimmy G is likely to command a 1st round pick, and that the Sam Bradford trade is the baseline to work off.

Don't see why the Trent Dilfers, Rich Keefs, and Andy Harts of the world want to say they know better

 

[RobertWeathers]

Shefter was basically repeating what NFL execs were saying back in October... that Jimmy G is likely to command a 1st round pick, and that the Sam Bradford trade is the baseline to work off.

Don't see why the Trent Dilfers, Rich Keefs, and Andy Harts of the world want to say they know better

Those guys are chumps.

Paul Parillo's opinion is all that matters.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

JAG was not running the full playbook with the full responsibilities.

To be fair, there are probably more plays in the playbook than 6 quarters allows.