Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by JR4, Jan 22, 2013.
Thanks for providing more "Pats fans are whiners" fodder for the Jest and Ravens boards.:bricks:
Q&A with Haley:
Q: Can an NFL game be fixed?
A: Yeah, probably. Individual refs probably get bought off from time to time. I'm sure some wealthy person has been able to influence a game to their financial advantage by finding a ref that could be bought.
Q: Would the NFL fix a game themselves?
A: No, never. They would never endanger the product this way.
Q: Would "Vegas" fix a game?
A: If by "Vegas" you mean "the house", no. They make money because people make bets, not because of which bet they make. The line is determined by the supply of betters on each side so that the house, as usual, always wins.
Q: Was our game fixed?
A: Nope, we just sucked.
If you are going to make a claim like this, you really need specific footage to back it up. If you want to make this claim, fine, but back it up with ACTUAL data instead of "magic 8 ball" findings.
I don't believe the federal government is hiding information about UFOs landing in New Mexico; I don't have an underground compound in my back yard stocked with canned goods and ammo; I don't believe American auto manufacturers intentionally build cars to break down so the people who buy them will have to buy them more often. I've been a rabid NFL (and NCAA football for that matter) fan since I was seven years old. For a few years now I've been increasingly dismayed by the regularity of blatantly, inexcusably bad calls in the NFL; but I've done my best to take Steve Section 102's approach (forgive me if I got the user name wrong) and do my best to believe that the league isn't corrupt, because I didn't like the alternative. But after the game last Sunday, I'm done.
A brief greatest hits of calls just in the past five years that cannot be rationalized away to incompetence, and which undeniably altered the outcome of games:
2007 Super Bowl - first half: Plaxico Burress catches a bomb from Eli that puts the Giants in field goal range. They kick a field goal, which ends up being the difference in the game. At the time of the catch, not later but when it happened, the TV broadcast showed a slo-mo replay of the catch, and Burress pushed off as egregiously as has ever been done - he extended both his arms and pushed the Patriots defender five yards away; and, inexplicably, it wasn't called. There's no doubt that at least one of the officials saw it; but they chose not to call it, and it wasn't borderline, or even close. And it made the difference in the game.
2007 Super Bowl - second half: The Patriots had a third-and-long. Brady dropped back to pass, and after he had thrown the ball incomplete, one of the Giants DLs slammed into him - helmet to helmet. Never at any time is any player on the defense allowed to hit a QB in the head, with any part of his body, much less the helmet; yet the Giant defender not only did it, he led with his helmet right into Brady's chin. The TV broadcast showed it in slow-motion replay - and the announcer's response was enough to spell out the corruption in this league for anyone who's not in denial and has his eyes open, because neither of them said a word - didn't comment in any way - pretended it hadn't happened. If the penalty had been rightly called, it would have put the Patriots in Giants territory with a first down; as it was, they had to punt. That one dishonest call made a tremendous difference in the game.
2007 Super Bowl - the last seventy seconds of the game: This was on Youtube for a while, may still be. The clock "somehow" stopped working properly, coincidentally just as the Giants were running out of time on their eventual game-winning drive; and, unlike the many thousands of times when a game clock has stopped working and the officials have corrected it by adding or removing time, nothing was done. You can hear Troy Aikman - not exactly a conspiracy theorist - commenting repeatedly to the whole world on the fact the clock is not working properly, and that time is not elapsing off said clock as it should. If the clock had worked properly, the Giants would have run out of time; as it was, a drive that would have taken up two minutes or more, took about twenty seconds. If you happened not to be watching the clock at the time, go back and watch it, and try to come up with some explanation of how that's not corrupt.
The regular-season Baltimore game this year: A field goal that to anyone with eyes clearly passed outside any portion of the uprights, by several feet, was called good, and then not reviewed. And it was set up by a pass interference call.
AFC Championship game 2013: As another poster noted, the Ravens DBs were bending (as in shattering) the rules the entire game, and were not called for it. This alone easily could have made the difference in the game, without the other corrupt calls. When you have one of the two or three most prolific offenses in the history of the league, and it's predicated largely on the passing game, and the defense of the other team is allowed to do whatever they want rather than being held to the rules that your team is held to on defense, that is a tremendous inequality, and when you're talking about two teams at the highest level of their sport and one team is not held to the rules and the other is, it's simply not very intelligent to suggest that that won't make the difference in the game. No team could overcome that. The Ravens DBs were practically tackling our receivers long before the ball ever got there - and it wasn't called.
The Ravens OL were holding, tackling, etc. against the Patriots DL all game, and weren't called for it once. Here again, even if every other call had been honest (and they weren't by a long shot - see above), this would have made the difference in the game, just as it did for the Saints when they won the Super Bowl.
The Ridley fumble was the single most blatant, shameless instance of mass-witnessed corruption in the history of televised sports. Nearly his entire calf was on the ground before the ball came loose, and his butt slamming against the ground was what brought the ball down against his leg to dislodge it. The fact that the play was reviewed and then confirmed, makes the corruption even more despicable. The NFL was basically saying to the however many tens of millions of fans watching that they don't care if we know they're corrupt because they think we're stupid enough that we'll keep watching no matter what they do. The Patriots were down by one score at the time, and they were driving; the Ravens got the ball in Patriots territory and scored the TD that put it out of reach. That one play changed the entire course of the game.
I was worried all week leading up to the game that it was fixed because the hype about Baltimore was twenty times what it was for the Patriots. Every time I turned on sports talk radio or ESPN, all the talk was about the potential for a "Harbaugh Bowl," or what a storybook year the Ravens were having in Ray Lewis's final season, or how the Ravens felt they were a team of destiny; nothing at all was said about the possibility of redemption for the Patriots if they made it back to the Super Bowl, or what it would mean for Brady to get that fourth ring and equal Montana, etc. It was all Ravens, Ravens, Ravens.
It's not just the NFL, of course. I used to be a fan of the NBA, but finally had to walk away. It's become standard practice in the playoffs for the chosen team to get away with murder on the defensive end of the court, while the other team (the Mavericks, for instance, the year the Heat won with Shaq, when the Mavericks would be called for a foul on D-Wade when no Dallas player was within three feet of him) gets phantom fouls constantly such that the winners end up shooting two or more times (sometimes three, see Celtics-Lakers in 2008) the number of free throws even though they're the more "physical" team, etc. After the last game he ever coached, Phil Jackson, not exactly a conspiracy theorist or one to call out refs, made a point of commenting that the officiating was skewed. Just as Derrick Rose, easily the most soft-spoken and modest superstar in the league, commented on the officiating after the Bulls were put out of the playoffs last year.
People ignore it because they don't want to give up watching the sport. They don't want a hole in their lives where there was once something that gave them great pleasure. I don't want that hole any more than the next guy; I love sports. But there comes a point at which watching a sham makes the spectator a little less honest, a little less of a human being, because he's participating, whether or not through the filter of denial, in a lie.
Just for perspective, the FBI has investigated the NFL more than once in years past for fixing games:
More evidence of NFL game fixing
It can change. But it won't until enough intelligent people say, "enough," and walk away until something is done.
I think 07 was fixed to make it a close game or to get the Giants to win if possible. NY JetDell couldn't have the big cheating Patriots go 19-0 after his overreaction to Spygate.
Can the mafia get to a couple refs, sure, has there been crooked refs in the NFL over the years, I would bet money on it (no pun intended) but to say the NFL itself is arranging who wins and plays in the super bowl is jetsfan silly.
If there was ever a whiff that the NFL itself was in on fixing games it wouldnt be a billion dollar business anymore, that would be shooting themselves in the foot.
Im not sure what the OP is getting at here, he starts off by saying hes just throwing it out there and by page three is vehemently defending the idea the game was fixed.
Thats cry baby whining, they lost, Brady was moving the ball in the second half and the Ravens came up with a big play when it mattered, thats how they didnt score, Brady didnt give up, sure he seemed dejected but the way the game was going I can see why, he throws a pass it gets tipped and picked off ending what looked like a scoring drive, same thing with the Ridley fumble, they didnt give up, they were fighting to the end.
I thought the silliness would die down after a week, I guess some people need more time. :bricks:
Too add to the inanity of this thread...I think it's the networks that control EVERYTHING. It's all about billions in advertising dollars, ratings go down when it's the same old teams in the playoffs every year, hence advertising revenue suffers.
I think the networks are the driving force in rule changes to maintain parity,changing the officiating " points of emphasis " depending on the teams involved, the whole free agent system that makes it hard for the rich teams to stockpile good players, and the manipulated story lines of the media frenzy build-up to the Super Bowl.
As the old saying goes ; Follow the money.
If the NFL and/or networks were conspiring to fix the outcome of games, then the teams in television's largest markets (New York, Chicago) would be playing in February every year.
Look it's really easy to make fun or laugh this thread. But I think if you take the time to think the OP's suggestions through there is only one conclusion that can be reached
I also think it's childish - and dishonest - to mock people who have enough sense to open their eyes and see that corrupt officiating is regularly deciding the outcome of games, and that it cost the Patriots a trip to this year's Super Bowl. I think if you took any rational adult who was not a sports fan and explained to him or her the rules of a fumble, then showed him the replay of Ridley's fumble, he or she would be amazed (and confused) that it was ruled a fumble. Then if you explained to him the rules of defending a receiver, i.e. the defender can't make contact after five yards until after the ball arrives, and then showed him footage of the Ravens DBs defending Pats receivers two Sundays ago, he would ask why penalties were not called. Then if you explained to him the rule on holding, and then showed him footage from any point in the game of the Ravens OL at work, probably at that point the non-invested non-fan would make the only sensible conclusion, and comment that the officiating was crooked.
I don't know who is doing it, whether it's the league or the mafia, and it doesn't matter. Anyone who denies it's happening is part of the problem.
It won't change until enough intelligent people who care about truth and decency walk away. If tomorrow twenty million people decided to boycott the NFL until the NFL cleaned up its act, you'd better believe things would change in a hurry. But as long as people willfully cover their eyes and keep buying tickets, merchandise, etc., it's going to keep happening.
For me, there's no point in watching if I know that it doesn't matter how well my team plays because the money may be on the other team.
No they wouldn't, because the networks don't want the same teams every year.
They want DRAMA. The same old thing every year won't hold our attention.
The NFL is nothing more than the most watched " reality " show on television.
You know, where the "actors" are really just regular people (even though they know they're on camera ), living their incredibly interesting, drama filled, humorous lives, for us all to enjoy while we munch our chips and guzzle our beer.
It's nothing more than the old show Dallas, where the whole civilized world stopped to find out who shot JR.
Every season is scripted by advertising executives who are experts at selling refrigerators to Eskimos.
It's become so blatant that even the Superbowl commercials generate as much buzz as the game itself.
This purported evidence seems to be referring to events all prior to 1989 that do not involve the NFL but instead some New York Mafia guy as the 'fixer'.
I don't think it is a stretch of the imagination for anyone that some wealthy or powerful guy might fix a game one in a while when he can find a willing ref. However, this article does not show any evidence to support any theory alleging the NFL, Vegas, TV networks, or anyone not directly linked to organized crime has ever been responsible for fixing a game.
My point is that individual games aren't "fixed "...the whole NFL is fixed. The TV networks orchestrate the whole thing, from the draft to the Superbowl. They've made it into " Must See TV ", for our viewing enjoyment.
I'm old enough to remember going to games, where you could watch a complete drive from the twenty yard line to a touchdown, with no stops for commercial timeouts. Of course that was football before big time TV contracts, so you actually had to spring for a ticket to see it.
Now THOSE were the good old days.
When football was just a sport and TV was Bonanza and Ed Sullivan.
This sounds like a thread of the 01 Rams team we out hit and out-played in Super Bowl XXXVI. How could anyone stop them? It's a fix.
Anytime you want to post some evidence, I'm all ears.
Winner of worst post of the year. Clinched it already collect your trophy now, no one can come close in the next 11 months. Kudos.
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I was thoroughly entertained by your 2007 Super Bowl theory. Without evidence it will only ever be a theory, but entertaining none the less. To add more fuel to the fire, there were 2 or 3 blatant offensive holding penalties on the Tyree catch that were not called, not to mention that Eli was in the grasp. Also here's another conspiracy angle involving A$ante Samuel. We all know he made it no secret that he was all about the Benjamins. Is it possible that the dropped interception and the blown coverage on the Tyree throw were not just innocent mistakes? Just sayin.
Timeouts for commercials in the middle of a drive is all the evidence you need.
The TV networks pay the bills, so they get to write the script.
No, I don't think so. Maybe in the 06 AFCCG. Pats got bent over pretty bad. Was probably because of Polian's whining. Not sure the ravens making the super bowl is better for the NFL than the Patriots. With the Patriots you either love them or hate them. So you can guarantee people will watch the super bowl.
It is absolute nonsense to claim the NFL fixes games. It's a risk they don't have to take. Like all sports groups, the NFL loves gambling because it dramatically increases fan interest, but the League would squash the fixers like a bug. Don't underestimate the power and desire of some NFL owners and their investors/shareholders to stop that dead in its tracks.
The SB is a game within a much bigger spectacle and the spectacle is much more important to everybody but hardcore NFL fans, meaning the teams' identity hardly matters at all. I have my doubts about one player in the 2007 SB who may have found another way to get paid and get back at his employer, but it's mostly just speculation on my part.
Tom Brady and Giselle have so much cash they are basically incorruptible. They could buy most anyone who could bribe them. It's a ridiculous notion.
A drug kingpin or a big time hedge fund or dark pool guy could try to fix games by buying refs or players who need cash. I think this may have happened in some games in the past, but not in the Pats-Ravens game. The Ravens just played better.
The idea that the world was better in the old days is foolish. There was a lot less of the society of the spectacle but a lot more grease - see the City College point shaving scandal in 1951 for starters.
The Pats needed a deep threat, a better offensive plan and a little tougher D last Sunday. The refs and gamblers were the least of their problems.
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