Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by KontradictioN, Jun 14, 2009.
Why not just go with offensive points scored per game and keep it objective?
Because Marshall Faulk was likely involved with this somehow.
I think you make a strong argument based on stats in favor of the 07 Pats. Being #2 on that list isn't the end of the world.
However, the problem I have with your argument is nobody remembers statistically sexy units that never win it. Nobody is going to remember the Steve Nash Phoenix Suns 40 years from now, and nobody really remembers or knows about the old exposive Chargers Coryall offenses. Most already forgot about the Moss Vikings offense. Nobody is going to remember the 2001 Rams or the 2007 Pats offenses except for their choke jobs.
Stats also shouldn't be used too heavily in all time debates. Bill Russell always beat down Wilt Chamberlain in the championships, even though Chamberlain was a stat magnet. Even before 2007 there was strong argument for why Brady was better than Peyton Manning. Joe Montana doesn't have the yardage or TD stats compared to Marino or Brett Favre (or even Drew Bledsoe), but almost everyone outside of Florida and Wisconsin would say Montana was better on the all time lists.
Thats To logical......Besides this gives them something to write about, just compiling a list of the top offenses in order would be to easy and non contravercial.
Using Super Bowl wins as a requirement for compiling this list is idiotic. Using similar logic, Karl Malone and Charles Barkley are not among the greatest all-time power forwards in the NBA, and a whole host of players from all sorts of leagues need to be kicked out of the respective Halls Of Fame.
Actually, to be even more logical and objective, we could take defense out of the equation and rank offenses based upon points scored per minute they possessed the ball, and base it only on regular season games.
Anything else is subjective statistical masturbation IMO.
Well, you might have a point with Malone.
Which one of you has the ESPN name "Pyper"? 2nd comment on this item posted:
Grade = Aleph! Godol Aleph!
Anybody who rates the Patriots 07 offense below no.1 has an ulterior motive.
Malone probably gets his ring if the officials don't let Jordan get away with what was probably the most blatant offensive foul in NBA history.
Or he might have gotten it if he didn't throw the ball to Jordan on the previous play.
One would also need to consider the quality of defenses faced in that season's schedule, and also consider performance relative to other offenses during that period.
Taking just total points or yards to figure out who was the best, is way too simplistic. Going back to the QB example, Marino and Favre may have the most stats, but you won't find too many experts saying they were top 3 all time QB's.
Malone is a good example for my argument, not yours. Malone may be #2 all time in points scored, but I'm not sure he'd make most people's lists of top 3 power forwards of all time.
Not true. I'd understand your position/perspective if before 2007 you also truly thought Peyton Manning was a better QB than Tom Brady, because you put lots of emphasis on stats. However, stats aren't everything, and there were plenty of fans on this site would argued pre-2007 a solid case for why Brady was a better QB than Manning. Same thing applies to a list for all time offenses.
What's up with the wrong stats? Someone in the stats department is going to get reamed. Statistically, the Pats are the best offense in history. If you want to rank #1 "super bowl winning" offenses, than the Rams being #1 is legit.
I don't know what your argument is but you're not mentioning mine at all. There's alot more than just "points scored" that goes into the determination of "top 3 power forwards of all time", including several subjective consideration. Not many people say that Reggie Theus is an all-time great player either, but he could certainly score. Who cares?
An NFL team's offense's job is to score points. The more effective they are, the more they score.
Why did you quote me and make this reply.
Nothing you have said here is relevant.
It's the same argument for players. It's the player's job to score and defend in basketball, or to execute and accumulate offensive or defensive stats in football.
Just because we're talking about offensive units instead of individual players, doesn't change the issue for some that stats shouldn't be the main or only determinant of who was the best all time.
Karl Malone was the highest scoring power forward of all time, great defensively and had many 1st all NBA selections, it doesn't mean he's the best power forward of all time. The 07 Pats offense put up monster stats but nobody is going to remember them decades from now, they're going to be forgotten like the Moss Vikings offense and the 01 Rams offense.
I think people will remember 16 - 0 better than 15 - 1 and 14 - 2.
Separate names with a comma.