NFL.com ranking of backup QBs: Mallett #11, Tebow #17

[sb1]

Context matters. Ryan had made a point of 'sticking by' Sanchez all year long. If he starts Tebow, a playoff winning QB, and suddenly the team comes alive he'll look even worse than if they lost a few more games because fans, analysts and league types would have been able to go back and say his decision to stand by his man was what cost the Jets their season.

I also love how the people who don't like Tebow are suddenly huge fans of the Jets ability to judge talent. Didn't know there were so many Jets admirers among us.

"Mark Sanchez is better than Tim Tebow and that's it."
-- Joe Montana

I would say a legend of this sport who is arguably the greatest of all time is a pretty good judge of talent at his position. I'd think he'd probably have some credible and valid reasons why he'd say such a thing.

 

[belichick010405]

Context matters. Ryan had made a point of 'sticking by' Sanchez all year long. If he starts Tebow, a playoff winning QB, and suddenly the team comes alive he'll look even worse than if they lost a few more games because fans, analysts and league types would have been able to go back and say his decision to stand by his man was what cost the Jets their season.

I also love how the people who don't like Tebow are suddenly huge fans of the Jets ability to judge talent. Didn't know there were so many Jets admirers among us.

The Jets looked like fools in the first place when they picked up Tebow as well.

Anyone that watched the Patriots playoff game against the Broncos knew that Tebow going to any other team in the Patriots conference, after Elway dropped him in favor of rookie Brook Osweiler as the backup to Manning, was going to be a blessing because he is a distraction on and off the field.

When Tebow is cut this year, that distraction will be over because the chances of him being picked up and staying on a 53-man roster will be even lower than when no teams picked him up for the one-month period after he was released by the team that traded a 4th and 6th round pick for him.

For all intensive purposes, when you are no longer wanted for services by three teams in three years, it is over.

 

[IllegalContact]

the thing about tebow is that he along with hasslebeck are the only ones who QB'd teams to the playoffs....

so Kyle Orton, who was 1-4 as a QB for the broncos in 2011 is #2 and Tebow was 7-4 for the same team (and a playoff win) is #17

what are we talking about here? pure QB ability or giving your team a chance to still win?

the whole thing seems random.....you have a bunch of losers and a bunch of 'who knows'

 

[sb1]

the thing about tebow is that he along with hasslebeck are the only ones who QB'd teams to the playoffs....

so Kyle Orton, who was 1-4 as a QB for the broncos in 2011 is #2 and Tebow was 7-4 for the same team (and a playoff win) is #17

what are we talking about here? pure QB ability or giving your team a chance to still win?

the whole thing seems random.....you have a bunch of losers and a bunch of 'who knows'

I just can't give QB's credit for wins. That is a team stat. The QB is certainly part of the "team" in that context but without the team contributing around him he's not going to win squat. Or in this case the Broncos coaches, who gave Tebow the read option that at least temporarily was a great match for Tebow's skills and helped the team win with him.

Otherwise Matt Cassel (11-5 in 2008 ) > Tom Brady (10-6 in 2009)?

 

[situational_awareness]

For all intensive purposes, when you are no longer wanted for services by three teams in three years, it is over.

"intents and purposes"

Not trying to be the grammar police, but I thought you'd like to know.

 

[manxman2601]

I just can't give QB's credit for wins. That is a team stat. The QB is certainly part of the "team" in that context but without the team contributing around him he's not going to win squat. Or in this case the Broncos coaches, who gave Tebow the read option that at least temporarily was a great match for Tebow's skills and helped the team win with him.

Otherwise Matt Cassel (11-5 in 2008 ) > Tom Brady (10-6 in 2009)?

And yet, just above you "liked" a post mentioning Tebow's defeat against the Pats. Would you agree that Tebow can't be criticised for that defeat in the same way you "can't give QBs credit for wins"? Not trying to gotcha, just trying to get a feel for your line of thought.

 

[situational_awareness]

I just can't give QB's credit for wins. That is a team stat. The QB is certainly part of the "team" in that context but without the team contributing around him he's not going to win squat. Or in this case the Broncos coaches, who gave Tebow the read option that at least temporarily was a great match for Tebow's skills and helped the team win with him.

Otherwise Matt Cassel (11-5 in 2008 ) > Tom Brady (10-6 in 2009)?

Lol. How many teams win when the QB doesn't play well? We judge QBs on whether they win or lose... unless it's Tebow. Tebow wins, and then now all of a sudden winning doesn't matter. It's how you win, or how pretty it was, or by how many points. Forget the winning... did you win "in style"?

As far as the Broncos coaches... it's hard to say this without sounding condescending to you, but you really need to brush up on the kind of offense Tebow ran at Florida and contrast it with what they ran in Denver. Just reading Bleacher Report articles is not going to educate you on this.

Not saying they didn't "better" the situation somewhat, but it still wasn't a good offensive gameplan. They should have put Tebow in the shotgun and run a spread option. Then we may have seen bigger passing games from him. I think Shanahan did a much better job of creating an offense for RGIII.

 

[Remarker]

"Mark Sanchez is better than Tim Tebow and that's it."
-- Joe Montana

I would say a legend of this sport who is arguably the greatest of all time is a pretty good judge of talent at his position. I'd think he'd probably have some credible and valid reasons why he'd say such a thing.

Yeah well, Montana reportedly saying that was reported by none other than the Jets' own Gary Myers in March of 2012, well before the famous butt fumble and Sanchez's 'bottom of the QB list' season. Myers reported Montana said it in an email but failed to either show the email or link to it. Joe Montana says Mark Sanchez is better than Tim Tebow 'and that's it' - NY Daily News

If you want to hear words about Tim from the horses mouth (Montana) here is a link to a radio interview from May 2013: Joe Montana Criticizes Jets Handling of Tim Tebow: 'I Think They Ruined the Guy' [AUDIO] | John Gambling

From the article by John Gambling of WOR 710 radio, WOR 710 - New York's News & Talk :

"Hall-of-fame quarterback Joe Montana joined John Gambling on WOR 710 Wednesday morning and of course the topic of former New York Jets quarterback Tim Tebow came up. Who better to ask what went wrong with Tebow than one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time?

Tebow was waived by the Jets Monday after just one tumultuous season. Tebow spent most of the 2012-2013 season with “Gang Green” either on the bench or playing on special teams. Montana was critical of the way the Jets handled Tebow telling John, "I think they ruined the guy." Montana defended Tebow, telling WOR 710 that the Jets should have never messed with Tebow's throwing mechanics. "I just think they did him a total disservice," Montana said. The legendary San Francisco 49ers quarterback went on to say, "Look around the league, holy crap, there's so many guys with bad throwing motions." Montana said the Jets should have worked on Tebow's footwork instead of worrying about his throwing motion."

 

[sb1]

Lol. How many teams win when the QB doesn't play well? We judge QBs on whether they win or lose... unless it's Tebow. Tebow wins, and then now all of a sudden winning doesn't matter.

Is "winning" the right way to judge a QB? Then are you saying Matt Cassel (11-5 in 2008) was better than Tom Brady? (10-6 in 2009)? Are you saying that Ben Roethlisberger with his 22 passer rating "won" Super Bowl 40? Are you telling me that Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Dan Marino because he won a ring and Marino didn't?

It's how you win, or how pretty it was, or by how many points. Forget the winning... did you win "in style"?

No... it's not how YOU win, it's how your team wins. The QB is part of the team but HE doesn't win games. His team does. That is my point.

There's a reason why QB "wins" don't get tracked in football like they do for baseball pitchers. A pitcher can win a game for a baseball team. A QB can't.

As far as the Broncos coaches... it's hard to say this without sounding condescending to you,

Not taken that way.

but you really need to brush up on the kind of offense Tebow ran at Florida and contrast it with what they ran in Denver. Just reading Bleacher Report articles is not going to educate you on this.

Not saying they didn't "better" the situation somewhat, but it still wasn't a good offensive gameplan. They should have put Tebow in the shotgun and run a spread option. Then we may have seen bigger passing games from him. I think Shanahan did a much better job of creating an offense for RGIII.

My point is coaching staff made a few changes to the Bronco offensive gameplan with Tebow in there (especially after the Lions game) and it worked great. Do we give credit to Tebow for that success? Or the coaches? Or both? (the latter is my point).

QBs do not win games. Teams do. It's a team stat. Doesn't matter if we're talking about Tebow or Brady or any other QB.

 

[sb1]

Yeah well, Montana reportedly saying that was reported by none other than the Jets' own Gary Myers in March of 2012, well before the famous butt fumble and Sanchez's 'bottom of the QB list' season. Myers reported Montana said it in an email but failed to either show the email or link to it. Joe Montana says Mark Sanchez is better than Tim Tebow 'and that's it' - NY Daily News

If you want to hear words about Tim from the horses mouth (Montana) here is a link to a radio interview from May 2013: Joe Montana Criticizes Jets Handling of Tim Tebow: 'I Think They Ruined the Guy' [AUDIO] | John Gambling

From the article by John Gambling of WOR 710 radio, WOR 710 - New York's News & Talk :

"Hall-of-fame quarterback Joe Montana joined John Gambling on WOR 710 Wednesday morning and of course the topic of former New York Jets quarterback Tim Tebow came up. Who better to ask what went wrong with Tebow than one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time?

Tebow was waived by the Jets Monday after just one tumultuous season. Tebow spent most of the 2012-2013 season with “Gang Green” either on the bench or playing on special teams. Montana was critical of the way the Jets handled Tebow telling John, "I think they ruined the guy." Montana defended Tebow, telling WOR 710 that the Jets should have never messed with Tebow's throwing mechanics. "I just think they did him a total disservice," Montana said. The legendary San Francisco 49ers quarterback went on to say, "Look around the league, holy crap, there's so many guys with bad throwing motions." Montana said the Jets should have worked on Tebow's footwork instead of worrying about his throwing motion."

Well, assuming the story is true then that's all we have to go on. If he did say it, I'm not going to question Montana's ability to judge a QB. And I'm not going to question what he said about how the Jets handled him either for the same reason.

 

[Concerned_Citizen]

Tebow started for the Donko's, beat the Stealers in the playoffs, and he is #17 on the backup qb list. Yeah, this list is legit.

And I'm not even a Tebow fan.

Most of that run was in spite of Tebow. He led the offense to the worst production it had in nearly 30 years. Led the league in three and outs, and is the only starting QB to finish with completing under 50% of their passes since 1992. He was good against soft prevents in the 4th when a lot of QBs aren't, but it usually followed 3 quarters where he REALLY struggled out there to do much.

So I agree, this list isn't legit. they were being VERY generous to Tebow thanks to a couple of lucky strikes that beat an injury depleted Steelers team. He's probably good enough to be the #2 on a couple of really QB thin teams like Jacksonville, but He'd probably be the #3 guy on most teams at best.

 

[Remarker]

Well, assuming the story is true then that's all we have to go on. If he did say it, I'm not going to question Montana's ability to judge a QB. And I'm not going to question what he said about how the Jets handled him either for the same reason.

I get it. You just question Hannibal Belicheck's and Face McDaniels' wisdom in signing Tim.

 

[sb1]

And yet, just above you "liked" a post mentioning Tebow's defeat against the Pats.

Tebow was absolutely dreadful against the Pats in that game.

Would you agree that Tebow can't be criticised for that defeat in the same way you "can't give QBs credit for wins"?

Saying what I said above isn't really criticism, it's stating a fact.

And yeah I think if Tebow played well, the Pats would have likely still won that game. He didn't lose the game by himself but he didn't exactly help either.

You can't give QB's credit for wins for reasons I stated in the post above. Wins (and losses) are team stats not QB stats.

Not trying to gotcha, just trying to get a feel for your line of thought.

 

[sb1]

I get it. You just question Hannibal Belicheck's and Face McDaniels' wisdom in signing Tim.

If I am them I don't sign him. But I'm not so I'll wait to see what happens before judging the signing.

 

[Off The Grid]

Tebow, Tebow, Tebow!! :bricks:

Joker was RIGHT.

This place is INFESTED!!

 

[situational_awareness]

Is "winning" the right way to judge a QB?

I think it's right in a way and wrong in a way, but that's not the point. The point is that is the way they are judged, so you can't come in now and say that Tebow's wins are meaningless and move the goalposts just because you don't like one particular player.

Then are you saying Matt Cassel (11-5 in 2008) was better than Tom Brady? (10-6 in 2009)? Are you saying that Ben Roethlisberger with his 22 passer rating "won" Super Bowl 40? Are you telling me that Trent Dilfer is a better QB than Dan Marino because he won a ring and Marino didn't?

No, no, and no to all your questions. But, people thought Matt Cassel was the next Tom Brady after that season. At least he had a chance to prove he sucks. We don't know if Tebow was a fluke yet. It surprises me that so many people would rather hope Tebow goes away than to have a clear resolution to this tiresome debate.

No... it's not how YOU win, it's how your team wins. The QB is part of the team but HE doesn't win games. His team does. That is my point.

So then, you agree that when the Broncos lost, it wasn't Tebow's fault? You agree that the team "backed into the playoffs" because the TEAM was not playing well? It wasn't because Tebow didn't win the last few games, but because the TEAM failed?

There's a reason why QB "wins" don't get tracked in football like they do for baseball pitchers. A pitcher can win a game for a baseball team. A QB can't.

I don't agree. A QB can definitely win or lose a game for a team. Philip Rivers and Mark Sanchez last year are some good examples.

My point is coaching staff made a few changes to the Bronco offensive gameplan with Tebow in there (especially after the Lions game) and it worked great. Do we give credit to Tebow for that success? Or the coaches? Or both? (the latter is my point).

It worked greatly? I thought you said Tebow sucks and looked like garbage? Now it worked greatly? Which one is it? lol.

QBs do not win games. Teams do. It's a team stat. Doesn't matter if we're talking about Tebow or Brady or any other QB.

See above.

 

[Concerned_Citizen]

Well, assuming the story is true then that's all we have to go on. If he did say it, I'm not going to question Montana's ability to judge a QB. And I'm not going to question what he said about how the Jets handled him either for the same reason.

Search deep enough, you'll find a lot of credible sources that think Tebow is either good or not good. Steve Young thinks highly of him. Dan Marino, not so much.

As for their opinions on whether he got screwed or not, that depends on who you ask too. The Jets are guilty of bringing him in and not having a plan for him, but I don't buy the conspiracy theories that some put out that it was DELIBERATE sabotage. The Jets are simply INCOMPETENT, plain and simple.

If people want to say the Jets ruined Tebow by not playing him, well, some of that is on Tebow himself then too. Probably should have shown more in practice like everyone else has to and spent less time chucking balls into the dirt. There is a reason coaches aren't high on the idea of him running their offense, and at least some of the blame has to go to Tebow. I mean, why go out of your way to screw the kid over if there is nothing wrong with his game?

Tebowfans have a gripe about them not releasing Tebow until after the draft and free agency, but that is about it. there is no reason to start someone if you don't believe in their ability at QB. Tebow may prove the doubters wrong on that score one day, but that day hasn't happened yet, and it isn't likely to happen this year.

...and he's not, "ruined" either. Last I checked, he's on an NFL roster under one of the more innovative coaches in NFL history. He could be a LOT worse off.

 

[situational_awareness]

He was good against soft prevents in the 4th when a lot of QBs aren't, but it usually followed 3 quarters where he REALLY struggled out there to do much.

So I agree, this list isn't legit. they were being VERY generous to Tebow thanks to a couple of lucky strikes that beat an injury depleted Steelers team.

He's probably good enough to be the #2 on a couple of really QB thin teams like Jacksonville, but He'd probably be the #3 guy on most teams at best.

So many excuses...

 

[situational_awareness]

As for their opinions on whether he got screwed or not, that depends on who you ask too. The Jets are guilty of bringing him in and not having a plan for him, but I don't buy the conspiracy theories that some put out that it was DELIBERATE sabotage. The Jets are simply INCOMPETENT, plain and simple.

We actually are in agreement on this point. I don't believe it was deliberate sabotage. It was incompetence, as you said. Then it was stubbornness at the end to deny the chance to be proven wrong by Tebow. I'm sure you don't agree on that last bit, but the first part, I agree with you.

 

[IllegalContact]

I just can't give QB's credit for wins. That is a team stat. The QB is certainly part of the "team" in that context but without the team contributing around him he's not going to win squat. Or in this case the Broncos coaches, who gave Tebow the read option that at least temporarily was a great match for Tebow's skills and helped the team win with him.

Otherwise Matt Cassel (11-5 in 2008 ) > Tom Brady (10-6 in 2009)?

you kind of have to when its the same team in the same year......

how about brady (16-0) > cassel(11-5)?