NFL.com Edelman poised to "make a leap"

[Jackson 2]

False. Edelman was out there on plays while Welker was on the bench in game 1, and he had 1 catch. Then, in game 2, Hernandez was injured and wasn't even in the picture. Edelman then got hurt in game 3, came back by game 7, and had 11 catches total for the remainder of the season.

All the pom poms in the world aren't going to make that 11 catches in 6 games number look good.

And all the selective statistics in the world aren't going to make 5 touchdowns in 9 games look insignificant, either. Look, if the guy can't stay healthy he's not much help. My contention is that if he can stay healthy, he can be a very useful and effective weapon. Unfortunately for him and us, he has yet to prove he can stay healthy. We'll see. But, denying his abilities when he is healthy is just foolish and is indicative to me of an ulterior motive.

 

[Deus Irae]

And all the selective statistics in the world aren't going to make 5 touchdowns in 9 games look insignificant, either. Look, if the guy can't stay healthy he's not much help. My contention is that if he can stay healthy, he can be a very useful and effective weapon. Unfortunately for him and us, he has yet to prove he can stay healthy. We'll see. But, denying his abilities when he is healthy is just foolish and is indicative to me of an ulterior motive.

Julian Edelman had 3 receiving TDs all of last season. He has 4 receiving TDs in his entire career. My post responding to you was clearly about him as a WR, as was your post to which I responded and as was the follow up post by NEPettyOfficer72, so why are you trying to add in non-WR TDs and claiming I'm being selective about the stats when you're the one trying to expand the discussion to include his non-WR TDs?

 

[Jackson 2]

Julian Edelman had 3 receiving TDs all of last season. He has 4 receiving TDs in his entire career. My post responding to you was clearly about him as a WR, as was your post to which I responded and as was the follow up post by NEPettyOfficer72, so why are you trying to add in non-WR TDs and claiming I'm being selective about the stats when you're the one trying to expand the discussion to include his non-WR TDs?

False. He had 2 receiving TDs in his rookie year in one playoff game vs. Baltimore. That, with his 4 regular season TDs and 3 punt return TDs and 1 fumble recovery return gives him 10 career TDs, 6 of which are receiving not 4 as you erroneously claimed. If I've learned anything in my time on this board is that debating with you is a fool's errand. I've already been on way more than my fair share of those in my life, so I'm over and out on this one.

 

[Brady6]

There has never been any doubt about his open field running ability. The main doubts are his ability to consistently get open, catch the ball, and not get injured.

Hit the nail on the head Andy. He has great ability once the balls in his hands. But it is not always easy to get the ball into his hands. He is often injured, drops catchable balls, and doesn't get open without scheme assistance.

He certainly not going replace Welker or Hernandez. What he offers in my eyes is a adequate backup to Amendola who has injury problems in the past and average to above average ST play.

 

[Ring 6]

I strongly disagree. In my mind, there has never been any doubt about his ability to consistently get open and catch the ball.

Then why doesn't he get open and make catches.

There have been very real concerns about his ability to stay healthy. That's reality. However, his injuries have largely been broken bones, not nebulous types of things like pulled muscles, strains, etc. I have always understood the frustration with Edelman's unavailabilty due to injury. What I have never understood is the inclination of many posters to denigrate his ability and/or desire. To me, those qualities have never been in question.

I haven't heard anyone say anything about his desire, but his ability as a WR is certainly in question. He has caught 32 passes in 3 years. We haven't had the worlds greatest WR corps in those 3 years. If he had the necessary ability he would be catching a significant number of passes.

What leads you to believe he can get open? He caught 7 passes (5 of which were screens) in 2010 4 in 2011 and last year he caught 21, 9 of which were WR screens (ie not a matter of getting open).
He has caught 2,4, and 12 passes in the last 3 seasons beyond the line of scimmage. That works out to less than 0.5 per game. I'm not sure where you see him having no trouble getting open.

 

[Ring 6]

Hit the nail on the head Andy. He has great ability once the balls in his hands. But it is not always easy to get the ball into his hands. He is often injured, drops catchable balls, and doesn't get open without scheme assistance.

He certainly not going replace Welker or Hernandez. What he offers in my eyes is a adequate backup to Amendola who has injury problems in the past and average to above average ST play.

He can fill a role, catching screen passes when the opponent gameplan calls for it, getting the ball on some reverses, and being a reserve of course being the punt returner as well.

Last year people were claiming he could 'seamlessly' replace Wes Welker after having caught 11 passes, 6 beyond the los, and making 1 3rd down conversion in 2 years combined, so the opinions you will get on Edelman may be headscratchers.

 

[Brady6]

He can fill a role, catching screen passes when the opponent gameplan calls for it, getting the ball on some reverses, and being a reserve of course being the punt returner as well.

Last year people were claiming he could 'seamlessly' replace Wes Welker after having caught 11 passes, 6 beyond the los, and making 1 3rd down conversion in 2 years combined, so the opinions you will get on Edelman may be headscratchers.

Yeah that's crazy. Welker was the best slot WR to ever play the game during his time here. Those types of players are not easily duplicated. I think the thing that set Welker apart was his intelligence and understanding of the game. He will be missed, this Hernandez situation coming out or left field really changes the impact of that decision.

All we can do is hope Gronkowski gets healthy and these young WR's can give us some contributions.

 

[mgteich]

We were stacked at WR least year???????? with Welker, Lloyd and Branch?? Really?

I like Edelman. The Pats were a stacked team last year, with a lot of guys getting in on the action. Edelman came through big at times when the team needed him to.

 

[Ring 6]

Ok dude, look

OK Dude, I'm looking.

Everything that you just so-called broke down and quoted is flashes of brilliance given, his short time to show forth, being playing time on the field and time of injury that occurred. What I'm saying is realistically whats stopping him from being a weapon in this offense other than the obvious, durability and playing time?

Because in 4 years he has never been that. We have no evidence to show he can be. Sure you can hope, but it just isnt supported.

With his athleticism, elusiveness, short field explosiveness and possibility of growth what else is stopping him, other than those two obvious factors that I just mentioned?

The fact that he is poor at getting open, which is the most important attribute of a WR.

Giving the fact that he has Tom Brady as a QB, Josh McDaniels as an OC, Brian Daboll as a WR Coach and Bill Belichick to put him in position for success.

By that argument everyone will succeed.

Is he that much different physically from Wes Welker or Danny Amendola? He has the tools just like Wes once did, and Amendola does.. maybe not on the same level, but as far as style and approach not that different.

Yes very different. He is weak at the most important part of being a WR, the part WW and DA are best at.

And you can even go on to say more physically gifted than Wes, or open field runner. He is just as quick, and not like he hasn't learned from Wes Welker when Wes was in the offense, or can't learn from Danny Amendola.

Now he is better than Welker?

If Edelman can catch 10-12 screen passes and maybe 10-12 beyond the line of scrimmage while being effective as a PR and maybe run a few reverses then I would consider that a great year for him.
To compare him to Welker is ridiculous.

 

[mgteich]

I just hope that Edelman stays healthy so that he can be a productive punt returner and special teamer all year. Any contribution at WR is a bonus.

 

[Brady6]

I just hope that Edelman stays healthy so that he can be a productive punt returner and special teamer all year. Any contribution at WR is a bonus.

You don't see them using Washington as the PR? He did both KR/PR in Seattle.

 

[Ring 6]

And all the selective statistics in the world aren't going to make 5 touchdowns in 9 games look insignificant, either. Look, if the guy can't stay healthy he's not much help. My contention is that if he can stay healthy, he can be a very useful and effective weapon. Unfortunately for him and us, he has yet to prove he can stay healthy. We'll see. But, denying his abilities when he is healthy is just foolish and is indicative to me of an ulterior motive.

How are the totally of his statistics as a WR selective?
He didn't score 5 TDs at WR, and we are talking about him as a WR.
If by weapon you mean a guy who is a good at the WR screen and can occassionally catch some passes downfield as a reserve and be a very good punt returner then we agree. If you mean a top end WR, we never will.

 

[Ring 6]

I just hope that Edelman stays healthy so that he can be a productive punt returner and special teamer all year. Any contribution at WR is a bonus.

I think this is a good point. As the primary punt returner he is active, so he will be the 4th or 5th WR, which is a role I think he is fine in.

 

[mgteich]

Washington is an OK punt returner. Edelman is one of the best in the league. It is good to have such a quality backup if Edelman is injured.

You don't see them using Washington as the PR? He did both KR/PR in Seattle.

 

[Brady6]

Washington is an OK punt returner. Edelman is one of the best in the league. It is good to have such a quality backup if Edelman is injured.

Good stuff! I don't know a ton about Washington. Edelman is a very good PR.

 

[Deus Irae]

False. He had 2 receiving TDs in his rookie year in one playoff game vs. Baltimore. That, with his 4 regular season TDs and 3 punt return TDs and 1 fumble recovery return gives him 10 career TDs, 6 of which are receiving not 4 as you erroneously claimed. If I've learned anything in my time on this board is that debating with you is a fool's errand. I've already been on way more than my fair share of those in my life, so I'm over and out on this one.

It probably is best that you bow out since:

1.) You know full well that regular season and playoff stats are separate.

and

2.) Your number of games mentioned was 9

And all the selective statistics in the world aren't going to make 5 touchdowns in 9 games look insignificant, either.

which is the number of games Edelman played in the regular season last year. Furthermore, Edelman played in 3 postseason games last season, bringing his total number of games played last year to 12. He had 2 catches and 0 TDs in those 3 additional games.

To sum up: If you count the playoffs, as you are now trying to do (and from previous seasons, to make it even worse), Edelman's line as a WR for last season was

12 games
23 catches
3 TDs

There's no 5 TDs in 9 games. There's no 5 TDs in 12 games. Debating me is not the issue. Your being wrong is the issue here. Are we to crack out presesason games next?

 

[mgteich]

Washington is a top kick returner and an OK punt returner. He is also an OK 3rd down and backup running back. Both Washington and Edelman were solid signings.

Good stuff! I don't know a ton about Washington. Edelman is a very good PR.

 

[Brady6]

Washington is a top kick returner and an OK punt returner. He is also an OK 3rd down and backup running back. Both Washington and Edelman were solid signings.

Good stuff! I don't know a ton about Washington. Edelman is a very good PR.

Thanks for the knowledge. New member and loving everything I've learned on this board. You guys know your ****.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

He can fill a role, catching screen passes when the opponent gameplan calls for it, getting the ball on some reverses, and being a reserve of course being the punt returner as well.

Last year people were claiming he could 'seamlessly' replace Wes Welker after having caught 11 passes, 6 beyond the los, and making 1 3rd down conversion in 2 years combined, so the opinions you will get on Edelman may be headscratchers.

In 2009 JE had 43 receptions (on 62 targets) in 12 games (11 regular season games + 1 playoff game). Extrapolate that to a full 16 games and that is 57 receptions. That would have easily made him the third most productive receiving target behind Moss and WW (in terms of receptions).
I'm not disagreeing with all your assertions, however, that one year does lay some foundation that JE knows how to get open. Of course this is 2013 not 2009. Whether injuries, lack of progression, outpaced by other receiver targets, a combination of all three or something else, his most recent WR production is not overly encouraging. And if the Patriots need JE to be a big WR presence then I agree, that ain't good!

As i see it, if JE can say healthy for all 16 games and perform the PR duties at a high level/as he has shown previous, perform other ST duties, contribute between 30 and 40 receptions (with a couple of TDs)? That makes him a real solid part of the Patriots. And IF the issue of health finally is not a problem (not a good bet unfortunately), I think there is plenty of evidence to suggest JE can deliver that kind of year.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

With the hole in receptions we're filling this year, we'll see whether Edelman's a particularly shifty JAG (Maybe "JAG-plus,") or whether he's special but has been in the shadows. That's all we can say. You can't trust him yet because he hasn't done it yet.

In the 2007 off-season, we were all psyched because the Pats picked up Donte Stallworth.

Then we got Moss and everybody was split between "This guy is great and now he'll be catching balls from Brady" and "This guy has had his best years and is an attitude problem too. And oh yeah we got that guy Welker from Miami so that should help in the kicking game... but we overpaid."

Turned out okay.

If Edelman can step up anywhere like how Welker did, it could be the start of something great. That said, hoping doesn't make it so. The odds are that he hits a ceiling as "supporting cast," maybe a little more than moving the chains, and shy of that kind of meteoric rise.