NFL All-Rookie Team

[captain stone]

After reading the All-Rookie list, my first thought was: wouldn't it be nice to have a young stud Punter on the roster for the next decade? I hope that the FO either drafts one late on Sunday, or signs one (or more) as a UDFA.

BTW, I think that MGT has hit the nail squarely on the head re: the '07 draft. But I've already said plenty on that subject, so I'll just leave it be.

 

[Deus Irae]

Davis Harris was many things this year and in last year's draft. The one thing he was NOT was a sleeper. The vast majority of us would have been happy with him being picked instead of Meriweather or instead of trading into 2008. Most of us predicted him with our second pick in the 1st round, although some would have tried to trade down to get him. The jets traded up for Revis and from Harris. They evaluated well in a very poor draft. And just BTW, some here wanted Beason instead of Harris. He ALSO worked out pretty well. Finally, the rest of us wanted Leonard. I DO UNDERSTAND that the 2007 draft was a lousy draft. I just don't think we did very well with our actual nine picks made. People mention that we had late picks. Aren't Belichick and Pioli supposed to be the experts on late picks?

To say we were geniouses for trading a 4th for Moss and that makes our draft great is simply ridiculous. Moss blackmailed Oakland and would only come to the patriots. The bottom line is that we made 9 picks. The bottom line is that some perfectly aweful players made our final 53. Meriweather was our draft, along with a couple of late draftees that will hope to make the 2008 squad.

In the end, it doesn't matter. We are 16-0. We didn't NEED Meriweather to be a difference maker. We wouldn't have won any more games with Harrris, Leonard or Beason. I do NOT think Meriweather will be a bust, but neither do I believe he was worth a 1st round pick. Now, as then, I believe that one of these three would make the patriots a better team. And yes, as a practical matter, we could have traded down a few picks from 24 and still picked up one of the three (or four if Meriweather was still included as a possible choice).

We can wait another 3 years to make final evaluations between two strategies

STRATEGY ONE
Pick Meriweather and whoever was of most value in the fourth (ended up being Brown) and three OL's just in case on of our nine signed starter quality linemen broke their legs. Yes, I know we still might get lucky with Richardson or Lua. IMHO, Lua would have gone the way of Rogers.

STRATEGY TWO
As many of us suggested AT THE TIME, trade down next to our other first round choice, pick up a draft choice and choose Harris, Meriweather, Leonard or Beason. I do understand that the resultant 3rd or 4th rounder, even when combined with the 4th rounder we had probaby wouldn't have produced anything, given our evaluation of this draft. But just possibly, the extra pick from moving down would be enough combined with the 4th to move up to get a second serivicable player.

BOTTOM LINE

We all loved 2007 DRAFT DAY. After all we ended up with Welker, Moss, a 2008 mid 1st and a 2008 top 3rd.

Why must we continue to ignore the fact that the brain trust didn't do a very good job using the picks we actually made?

Why must you continue to spout the same bunch of incorrect statements time after time? The team drafted fine in a poor draft. AGAIN.... 18 of the 19 players drafted by this team in the past 2 seasons are either on an NFL team or an NFL roster, and that's despite the high number of low round picks that entails. No matter how often you keep deriding their draft strategy, you'll never be right.

Stop whining about the drafting done by a team that drafted in the following rounds

1
4
5
6
6
6
6
7 and
7

in the draft, with 4 of those picks being untradeable compensatory picks.


Your argument is ridiculous. The drafting strategy yielded an MVP candidate, the league's leading receiver (tied), and a future starting safety with a tremendous upside. Oh, yeah.... and the #7 pick, along with an extra 3rd round pick, in a much better and deeper draft

 

[ATippett56]

it was our linebackers wearing down (and especially bruschi in the middle) cost us the AFC title game last year. its still our #1 weakness, thomas from ravens was the wrong move to address it

Wrong! Not drafting David Harris in the first round was the wrong move since Meriweather proved during preseason he is no NFL cornerback.

 

[newton_tom_cat]

Wrong! Not drafting David Harris in the first round was the wrong move since Meriweather proved during preseason he is no NFL cornerback.

yeah dude i think thats what im saying

 

[ATippett56]

I was wrong about Leon Hall and Patrick Willis, those guys are awesome.

David Harris was a major sleeper who we could have used this season.

David Harris was not a major sleeper whatsoever. As a matter of fact, David Harris was the second rated inside linebacker in the 2007 NFL Draft. Maybe a subscription to the NFL Draft Scout will enlighten you!

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/

 

[DaBruinz]

thomas sack total in NE was a bit more than half what it was in Balt. he was the beneficiary of a strong ravens defense, not the maker of it. anyone who saw him in NE this season w/ a clue knows that. i saw an analysis showing Baltimore's defensive free agents performed the worst when they went to other teams. never said he had a clue about anything else, but give credit where credit is due

NTC - Anyone with a clue knows that most of Thomas' sacks in Baltimore came when he was playing OLB. And most people with a clue know that most of Thomas playing time came at ILB until Colvin went down. And, well, when you look at the game log, you'll notice that Thomas has more sacks when he was at OLB.

 

[DaBruinz]

Your reasoning is the justification for a Pats' draft that was the poorest

in recent memory. Three out of nine doesn't cut the mustard. The

Superbowl winners, the Colts, had all nine of their draftees make the

team and an undrafted rookie starts in their defensive line. This

refutes the theory that rookies can't make a good team.

The Pats simply don't seem to want to take the time to develop

young players at linebacker. Thirty eight year old Chad Brown makes their

53 man roster while Justin Rodgers is cut and immediately claimed by

another good team, the Cowboys. I don't know if the Pats can go on

forever without developing at least one young starting linebacker. Relying

on free agency too much is cost prohibitive.

You keep spewing the same sh!t every time you get in this argument and you are proven foolish every time you spew it.

1) The Colts had NUMEROUS holes to fill so, yes, all 9 of their draft picks made the team. And certainly does NOT refute the idea that its tough for rookies to make a good team.

2) The Patriots had a FULL ROSTER going into the draft. So it was going to be extremely hard for ANYONE to make the roster.

3) Meriweather, Brown, Lua, and Richardson had all made the roster. Unfortunately, Lua and Richardson got injured. The Pats tried to get Rogers onto the Practice squad, but Dallas snagged the SMU product.

4) Relying on free agency isn't cost prohibitive if its managed properly. And I suggest you look at who is currently playing for the Pats and realize how many of them came to the Pats as free agents.. All but Bruschi. Woods and Alexander were UDFA.

 

[DaBruinz]

The Colts do a terrific job each year both in the draft and in signing

undrafted free agents. This is why their defense is better this year even

though they lost defensive starters to free agency. The Jets, like the

Pats, realized that the 2007 draft was below par. Instead of drafting

a whole bunch of players with little chance of making their team, they

packaged their picks and obtained two very good players.

This year, the Pats are probably going to lose a lot of players to free

agency. It will be disappointing if they draft three offensive linemen

again and only three of their draftees make the team.

You do realize that the Pats couldn't trade 4 of their picks.. And that they did trade picks to get into next year as well, right?

Wait. No, I don't think you realize that. Otherwise, your argument would be better.. Or you would have figured it out after mentioning it for the umpteenth time.

 

[DaBruinz]

it was our linebackers wearing down (and especially bruschi in the middle) cost us the AFC title game last year. its still our #1 weakness, thomas from ravens was the wrong move to address it

No, it wasn't. But, you've never let the truth get in the way of your blathering posts.

 

[Tyler.Durden]

It takes more than a rookie season to know how good a player will be, especially the players who are drafted to good teams who aren't given much responsibility or playing time. Plus they have better guidance and coaching on the better teams.

 

[DaBruinz]

Why must we continue to ignore the fact that the brain trust didn't do a very good job using the picks we actually made?

Sorry, MG. Gotta disagree. You simply CANNOT ignore the acquisitions of Moss, Welker, the #7 for 2008 and the #68 when evaluating the draft.,

Considering that Rogers is playing for Dallas and that Lua and Richardson made this team but got injured. I think that the Pats did VERY WELL, all things considered. And its not like they could have traded 4 of the picks either. They had 4 picks they couldn't trade.

So, they went with what they felt was the best available.

For all those who say that the Pats didn't do a good job with the 6 late round picks, why don't you enlighten everyone with who you would have taken and who that person would have beat out to make the Patriots team.

 

[DaBruinz]

Wrong! Not drafting David Harris in the first round was the wrong move since Meriweather proved during preseason he is no NFL cornerback.

Hmmm.. either you are being sarcastic or dumb.. I can't tell which. I hope its the former.

Meriweather was drafted as a Free Safety to replace Wilson. Meriweather did fine covering the slot during limited duty. I definitely wouldn't want him out there on an island against Moss or TO. But I believe that BB and Pioli are smarter than that.

 

[mgteich]

Other teams draft in the same draft as we did. Somehow they figured out to draft Beason, Harris and Leonard, all players who would helped the patriots.

Perhaps you are correct. Perhaps we shouldn't focus on picks in the 6th and 7th. But neither should we focus on players not picked. Let us then evaluate the three picks we did actually made in the 1st, 4th and 5th rounds. And let all of you tell me why the three choices worked out so well.

I'll make it really simple for you. First we are talking about ONE draft, the 2007 draft. And, yes, I know you disagree. I am well pleased that we secured Moss, Welker and traded two picks into 2008. However, as good as that was, that does not make the quality of the picks we made any better.

My position may be wierd, but it seems to me that we owned the #24 choice and used it to draft a player. It seemed at the time, and now, that we might have done much better. Belichick has many times proved us wrong. I will, with all of us, celebrate when Meriweather is voted to pro-bowl next year or in 2009, but I don't think that he will be.

Also, we used two choices in the 4th and 5th to draft players. Why is wrong to ask how well they turned out?

Round 1
Meriweather was our choice at 24. This board had at least three other players ranked higher availale at 24. At least two could have been available with a trade down, but they were all better than Meriweather even at 24. In 100% foresight and hindsight, the best argument for likeing his choice is that we trust Bill Belichick. At the time, we trusted Bill as far his evaluation of Meriweather's character. I believe, now, as then, that Bill was right on in that evaluation.

This team drafted a player who will likely be a future starter at free safety, if we don't draft a replacement in the meantime. We don't always win at #24, but we have grown to expect players like Mankins and Wilfork in that area of the draft, or Watson or Graham. I have never said that Meriweather is a bust. As far as potential, he seems to fit in with the potential recently drafted defensive backs. The difference is that they were drafted in the 2nd, 4th or even later. I guess we hav eno right to EXPECT that he would produce as much as Hobbs, Gay, Wilson or Samuel did in their rookie years, but it would have been nice. Perhaps he will produce more like Sanders, who took a couple of years to develop, which is fine.

ROUND FOUR AND FIVE (two picks)
These rounds are the specialty of pioli and Belichick. And as far as you're concerned, we shouldn't even be disappointed that neither is on the team. I disagree.

======================================================

ROUNDS SIX AND SEVEN (six picks)
Perhaps we have no right to expect much here. I agree that we posters get over-attached to late round draft picks and UDFA's. Lua wasn't making the team. He was slightly behind Rogers when he was injured, and he likely would have ended up in Cinci or NY when we cut him. Our sole potential success was Richardson. But why did we draft two more offensive linemen. Were we simply training them for the jets? We drafted our insurance lineman, our potential upgrade in the 5th, where we drafted Koppen and O'Callaghan. Where were the returners and punters or even a quarterback? Don't laugh at QB. We did sign Gutierrez later.
==============================================

Why must you continue to spout the same bunch of incorrect statements time after time? The team drafted fine in a poor draft. AGAIN.... 18 of the 19 players drafted by this team in the past 2 seasons are either on an NFL team or an NFL roster, and that's despite the high number of low round picks that entails. No matter how often you keep deriding their draft strategy, you'll never be right.

Stop whining about the drafting done by a team that drafted in the following rounds

1
4
5
6
6
6
6
7 and
7

in the draft, with 4 of those picks being untradeable compensatory picks.


Your argument is ridiculous. The drafting strategy yielded an MVP candidate, the league's leading receiver (tied), and a future starting safety with a tremendous upside. Oh, yeah.... and the #7 pick, along with an extra 3rd round pick, in a much better and deeper draft

 

[DaBruinz]

Other teams draft in the same draft as we did. Somehow they figured out to draft Beason, Harris and Leonard, all players who would helped the patriots.

Perhaps you are correct. Perhaps we shouldn't focus on picks in the 6th and 7th. But neither should we focus on players not picked. Let us then evaluate the three picks we did actually made in the 1st, 4th and 5th rounds. And let all of you tell me why the three choices worked out so well.

I'll make it really simple for you. First we are talking about ONE draft, the 2007 draft. And, yes, I know you disagree. I am well pleased that we secured Moss, Welker and traded two picks into 2008. However, as good as that was, that does not make the quality of the picks we made any better.

True. It doesn't make the quality of the picks better, but it sure as heck improved the quality of the draft.

My position may be wierd, but it seems to me that we owned the #24 choice and used it to draft a player. It seemed at the time, and now, that we might have done much better. Belichick has many times proved us wrong. I will, with all of us, celebrate when Meriweather is voted to pro-bowl next year or in 2009, but I don't think that he will be.

Also, we used two choices in the 4th and 5th to draft players. Why is wrong to ask how well they turned out?

Round 1
Meriweather was our choice at 24. This board had at least three other players ranked higher availale at 24. At least two could have been available with a trade down, but they were all better than Meriweather even at 24. In 100% foresight and hindsight, the best argument for likeing his choice is that we trust Bill Belichick. At the time, we trusted Bill as far his evaluation of Meriweather's character. I believe, now, as then, that Bill was right on in that evaluation.

1st Mistake. It is well known that BB and Pioli do NOT use ANY scouting company. They have their own draft board and ranking system. And, unless you were there in their War Room, you can not possibly know whether there were people above Meriweather on the Pats board. So, its a fallacy, in general, to say that there were 3 players ranked higher than Meriweather because that is most likely not the case for the Patriots.

This team drafted a player who will likely be a future starter at free safety, if we don't draft a replacement in the meantime. We don't always win at #24, but we have grown to expect players like Mankins and Wilfork in that area of the draft, or Watson or Graham. I have never said that Meriweather is a bust. As far as potential, he seems to fit in with the potential recently drafted defensive backs. The difference is that they were drafted in the 2nd, 4th or even later. I guess we have no right to EXPECT that he would produce as much as Hobbs, Gay, Wilson or Samuel did in their rookie years, but it would have been nice. Perhaps he will produce more like Sanders, who took a couple of years to develop, which is fine.

For Meriweather to "produce the way that Gay, Hobbs, Wilson and Samuel" did during their rookie years, the Patriots would have had to have lost several players in the secondary to injury. Remember, in 2003, the Pats cut Lawyer Milloy and then Ty Poole went down with injury. Gay and Hobbs got their playing time when Ty Law and Ty Poole went down in 2004. So, to have that expectation is just unrealistic.

ROUND FOUR AND FIVE (two picks)
These rounds are the specialty of pioli and Belichick. And as far as you're concerned, we shouldn't even be disappointed that neither is on the team. I disagree.

The Pats had 2 draft picks here. Kareem Brown and Clint Oldenburg. Who would you have taken instead of Oldenburg and who would that person have replaced on the Patriots?

======================================================

ROUNDS SIX AND SEVEN (six picks)
Perhaps we have no right to expect much here. I agree that we posters get over-attached to late round draft picks and UDFA's. Lua wasn't making the team. He was slightly behind Rogers when he was injured, and he likely would have ended up in Cinci or NY when we cut him. Our sole potential success was Richardson. But why did we draft two more offensive linemen. Were we simply training them for the jets? We drafted our insurance lineman, our potential upgrade in the 5th, where we drafted Koppen and O'Callaghan. Where were the returners and punters or even a quarterback? Don't laugh at QB. We did sign Gutierrez later.
==============================================

How do you know Lua wasn't making the team? He'd survived to the final cutdowns when the Pats IRed him. The Pats would have come to an injury settlement the way they did with Justice if they felt he wasn't worth keeping.


As for drafting a center and another tackle, I thought it was obvious why. The depth at center was sorely tested this year with the injuries to Yates and Hochstein. It was lucky for the Pats that they happened at different times. Having another player developing behind them isn't such a bad thing. As for Hilliard, O'Callaghan is one concussion shy of retirement. He's a time bomb. Britt still hasn't shown much of anything. Kaczur is up and down. Competition in camp is a good thing.

 

[Deus Irae]

Perhaps you are correct. Perhaps we shouldn't focus on picks in the 6th and 7th. But neither should we focus on players not picked. Let us then evaluate the three picks we did actually made in the 1st, 4th and 5th rounds. And let all of you tell me why the three choices worked out so well.

I'll make it really simple for you. First we are talking about ONE draft, the 2007 draft. And, yes, I know you disagree. ....

Here we go...AGAIN

LS: No problem
K: No problem
P: No problem (at the time)

Offense:

QB: Not a need for either a #1 or #2
RB: Not a need for any RB #1-4
TE: Not a need at #1-3
WR: Not a need at #1-7
OL: Not a need, but ALWAYS an area to be addressed by this team

That's the entire offense. The team didn't have a need for any players at all on offense. Any draft picks made here would either have been ridiculous steals or projects to compete with projects (Oldenberg competing with Britt)

Defense:

DL: Not a need for #1-5, competition/projects for NT, DE depth, Always addressed by team
LB: Not a need for #1-5, competition/projects for depth
DB: Due to recent history with this team, this was clearly the area of concern heading into the draft. Between the impending Asante issue, the aging of players like Hawkins and the seemingly endless injuries in the past 2 seasons, THIS was the only area of true need on the entire team.

Now, let's break down the draft you're complaining about for no valid reason:

Round 1: Meriweather is taken

Why a safety? Well, Hobbs and Samuel have shown an ability to play through injury, although Gay has struggled with that: they also ended last season healthy. However, the starting safeties, both Harrison AND Wilson, were coming off of injury. After the 'stomping' incident, Meriweather was projected to be a late first/early second round draft pick, which is exactly what he turned out to be. What the people of this board rate means nothing. No, check that, it means less than nothing.

Round 4: With the highest need (DB) dealt with, it was time for a Belioli special: looking for beef on the lines. In that vein, they took a chance on Kareem Brown and brought him in to compete against the likes of LeKevin Smith and company. As the season wore on, he was unable to unseat the incumbents, players who were previous "finds". (LeKevin Smith is a 6th rounder from 2006, for example). So, your gripe here essentially becomes this: A low round draft pick from a bad draft was unable to beat out low round draft pick from a better draft, or Mike Wright, an undrafted 'steal' from a few years back. You might want to start re-thinking this one

Round 5 just becomes more of the same, where you're complaining that a low round player from that same weak draft couldn't beat out other low round players. O'Callaghan was a #5 the year before, and Britt's a #5 Chargers pick from 2005.

Oldenberg and Brown are both on the Jets roster, Justin Rogers is on the Cowboys roster, Lua and Richardson are Patriots, Elgin is on the Colts practice squad along with Justise Hairston, and Corey Hilliard is on the Colts 53 man roster.

In other words, every player drafted by the Patriots this season is either on an NFL roster or a practice squad. In fact, in a terrible draft year, the Patriots drafted 9 players. Of the 9 players drafted by Belioli this season, 7 of them are on team rosters, with the other two on the Colts' practice squad. The Patriots (16-0) are the best and deepest team in the NFL. As we see from this paragraph, players that aren't good enough to make the Patriots are good enough to make it on other teams.

It's bizarre that this is even an issue, given the actual draft and the circumstances surrounding it.