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Nfl 2?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by DW Toys, Mar 10, 2011.

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  1. DW Toys

    DW Toys In the Starting Line-Up

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    I have a question for all of you legal types. There are approximately 2,300 players that attend the NFL area school Pro days and the combine. The path the NFLPA is apparently taking his litigation. The NFL misplayed their hand with the funds set aside from TV revenues. This is all going to end badly for the near future and distant future.

    Most of us on this forum want to see football. The NFL has grown to where it is a full tear entity. Most of us on this forum are still very interested in the NFL draft. If the NFLPA decertifies and goes after the owners, these legal proceedings can be long and drawn out. I say why can't the owners start new corporations with LLC's or secondary corporations or even trusts. Let a new league form. In the past NFLPA/owner breakdowns. the owners attempted to field teams with “scabs”. The world has changed. I can see new teams evolve under present ownership. If the draftees are not yet signed under NFLPA labor agreements m and if the NFLPA decertifies that should not be a issue, then why can't we still have a draft and take the best players available in 2011 and field complete teams?

    We know the owners would need to be prepared to take less attendance dollars and if they could give back some guarantees to the networks, I could see this working in today's world where it failed back in the day. A smaller part is better than nothing. There are Arena Leagues and the UFL that are surviving (barely). I am not advocating getting those players. I suggest having a normal draft and taking this year's players as a core and starting a team in each present NFL location. There are many other NFL players presently not under contract as FAs who might disavow the NFLPA in order to get back to work and play football. Would I like to see Tom Brady? Of course, but I want to see football. The owners and the NFLPA are not going to get together until one or the other caves. The sport is so much bigger now than it was so any NFL football is better than nothing at all. The NFLPA and Owners impasse has one loser in this...the fans. We have to understand that the NFLPA nor the owners or even the players give one crap about us. It is a wallet driver contest and we are the chumps.

    I want to know legally if if the players can go after the “new” league? I want to know legally if new LLC's or secondary corporations could be formulated without falling into the clutches of legal roadblocks? If the NFLPA is decertified, how could the union have control over these upcoming drafted players?

    I think it would be very interesting to start a new league with new players regardless of our present lofty position of being one of the top teams in professional football. I would suggest that the owners would have to give discounts for tickets, parking and concessions. But it would keep cash flow however reduced, going into their stadiums and coaches, employees, stadium personnel and other businesses affected would get some positive financial gain to pay bills.

    This way the greed is vanquished on both ends of the spectrum. The owners get a smaller percentage to maybe pay some of their debt service. The present players better hope that there long term contracts had enough upfront money for them to survive.

    As said, all of these new draftees would form the core of each team. The draft would have to be expanded to like back in the day when there would now be 15-17 rounds or better to stock each team. No doubt some present players would opt to break ranks and prefer to” feed their families”(Where have we heard that before?) Also there are some players that are not obligated by contract that would accept a lesser paycheck to get full-time work back in what we could call NFL 2.

    I know this is simplistic and I am not a business attorney but what are your thoughts? If a tickets for the Pats was $100. Would you pay half or one third of that to see BB and his staff coach some youngsters and a smattering of FAs? Would you not watch the games with morbid curiosity? Rather than “0” NFL football, could this interest you?

    I would like your thoughts and feedback?
    DW Toys
     
  2. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #24 Jersey

    I dont know about all that but if this thing strings out I think a bunch of UDFA types will playing in the UFL so that product might wind up a touch better.
     
  3. Dufflebagz

    Dufflebagz 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Let's ssay there's no NFL and we see this NFL 2.

    I'm sure it would be great for a season, just to hold us. When the NFL comes back what happens? Does it become like a minor league or will it compete with the NFL? What happens to all the draftees? Do they become NFL FA's or going with the minor league thought, do they belong to the NFL team affiliated with the NFL 2 team? Same question for coaches. Who owns these teams? Obviously anyone can, but are you saying NFL owners will or just some other people?

    I like the idea if it's used as a minor league but in that case we don't need a new league just merge or make the UFL the "NFL 2".
     
  4. DW Toys

    DW Toys In the Starting Line-Up

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    Interesting comments. What I propose is the same present NFL Team owners and same facilities. Kraft would own the Pat 2 or something like that. Just a change to a different league charter. Call it NFL 2 or something. The coaches are under contract anyway so it would be cool to see BB mold another Team to me.

    I get your point about a AAA football team. The NFL has always talked about that. Most sports do NBA, NHL, MLB. Even NASCAR has the Nationwide Series to groom drivers.

    Perhaps eventually this could work in the NFL? In the mean time let this blood bath take place but not at the expense of the fans.
    DW Toys


    P.S.If a Mark Cuban ever wanted to start another league, now the NFL is vulnerable.
     
  5. cmasspatsfan

    cmasspatsfan In the Starting Line-Up

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    i think cooler heads will prevail and everyone will get back to the business of NFL football. Theres too much at risk and these billionaires like to minimize their risk so in the end we'll see a compromise.
     
  6. DW Toys

    DW Toys In the Starting Line-Up

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    I thought so but with the Kessler guy back in, whatever progress was made goes the other way down the toilet and his son is an agent with a dog in this fight....What the hell? As a lawyer it is called billable hours. If this can go five years, "Bleak House" takes form in the NFL.

    I want the players with better benefits.
    I think 60% of every dollar might be too much for the players.
    There definitely has to be a Rookie wage scale.
    I am against the 18 games and of the school if there is another game it is an extra wild card game.
    I am against letting the players view the owners books. How many of you who are employed can go to your boss and say, "Show me your books so I can see how much of a salary I should have"......? Yeh right!

    Both sides are morons and I would say it to every owner and players face.
    DW Toys
     
  7. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's an interesting concept but I would think it would be bogged down in litigation. Collusion, antitrust, that type of thing. The whole network deal revolved around the NFL dealing in good faith to maximize profits so that revenue could be shared between the NFL and the players; that right there would seem to me to be a major issue with starting a new league. I can't see locking players out, not paying them, but still collecting those broadcasting revenues.

    I see what you're saying about starting new enterprises but I'm pretty sure there are laws that are made to impede those that try to circumvent responsibilities by simply starting a new company. If it was that easy any company that had a judgement against them would do just that. That's not to say it doesn't happen on a small scale - I've seen small businesses employ that very same tactic locally - but I don't think an enterprise as large as the NFL would be able to get away with that.
     
  8. DW Toys

    DW Toys In the Starting Line-Up

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    Good stuff. But what if the League did this the second the NFLPA decertifies? That might be the poison pill to prevent that from happening and the law suits that would follow. If the NFLPA decertifies, their governing party no longer exists, therefor at that split second, the Owners throw their new league to be a corporate entity, how could there be collusion if there is no union papered to prevent that. Anyone know?

    The players can sue the NFL1 all they want and the owners could drain the resources as a tax transaction transfer to NFL 2. Therefor the players won't have the leverage.

    It seems to me if the CBA expires, the agreement that was in place does as well. If the Owners carried out all the terms as contracted, how can the NFLPA go after them on the last contract? There is nothing that says the NFL owners have to sign a new CBA with the players. Am I simplifying this too much? If the new owners declare that said player is not locked out of NFL 2 and NFL 1 is dissolved there is no sense suing that dead end.

    This happens every day in business. Companies file re-organization documents and take all resources to the redefined new entity.

    The NFL is pushing hard that the NFLPA won't negotiate. True or not the public will place the cause of this rift in their direction. The NFLPA might have the upper hand because of the Anti-Trust laws, but it seems simple to me. We just dissolve the league and start over. Every NFL Team has their infrastructure in place from stadiums to coaches and scouts to peanut vendors, where as the UFL was a start up.

    They might say; O.K. Players Anti-trust us and we take our ball and go home. Sue the dead horse if you want. Maybe we will start a new game tomorrow and tweak one or two rules so it has differences.

    I am sure 'Ol Maurice will have more heavy lip hang than he does now. Kessler reaches for the Cyanide and the owners giggle.
    DW Toys
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2011
  9. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You dont need a new league. What you are proposing is the NFL do the equivalent of using players who will cross the picket line. In this case it is a lock out though, so the NFL would just begin signing players to non-union contracts, and once the union deceritifies, it goes on with any player who wants to play rather than go to court.
    It would be a way to break the union, but ultimately it would cause the NFL to lose many advantages it has, and in the end would be worse for the owners.

    I think if Bob Kraft started the New England Expatriots in NFL2 while locking out the NE Patriots he would lose the inevitable court battle and there would be an injunction preventing him from doing so within days of attempting it.
    But I am not a lawyer, and have spent no time studying labor law, anti-trust and the like, so this is just my impression.
     
  10. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv In the Starting Line-Up

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    As far as Arena Football, I think they are doing well, they added a 18 game season this year, a few more teams, and here in Jax, we sold out a lot of games.

    I just renewed and purchased my second year of season tickets in a row. The price point is perfect. for 2 great seats, I'm paying 23.00 a game per ticket. on the 20 yard line on the club side which boasts a bar and lounge rather than the traditional concessions.

    I really enjoy the Areana Experience, I think it's the perfect balance of (Basketball/hockey) and Football. It's fast pace, fun, and there is a high amount of drama towards the ends of the game.

    It's also perfectly placed right between NFL... I bought my tickets last year, becuase the weekend after the last Arena Game was the first week of preseason NFL... It was the perfect sport to fill the sports void of the summer.
     
  11. DW Toys

    DW Toys In the Starting Line-Up

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    Thanks but here is what my question is. If the Union decertifies there is no Union? If the NFL then goes on as business as usual and locks out those players with Union affiliation that would sue, I could see them suing NFL1 but if you are decertified how could you go after NFL2? Your Union does not exist so I may be wrong but the only way would be to start a new Union process and get certified.
    I think the first item would be to start an NFL2 is fill core rosters with Draft picks who have no Union representation or affiliation. There is absolutely nothing to stop an organization like the NFL2 from doing so? At that time the former union players can sue the NFL1 up the wazoo but it would be to now a shell company with assets removed. If there are no law suits in place at the time of the exact second the decertification, there would be no way to prove NFL1 did not just create NFL2 as a "development league". I am no lawyer either but this might be the "perfect crime". The NFL now has control over the newbee Draftees and can make a statement inviting any NFL player to join their existing organizations under the NFL2 banner may do so.
    How can the players (who now have no Union) sue the owners for wanting to start a new "development league"?


    Here is my point; The infrastructure is already in place with each owner be it stadium, coaches and pop corn vendors. The caveat is television and with now empty time slots on Sundays etc. and knowing how fans devour NFL Football, a "fill in" NFL show could take place. This is NOT the same as the "scab" deal many year ago. Nor is it like the UFL where they had to start by buying the first set of cleats and go up from there. This sport is now 24/7 with a multi-billion dollar equation in the economy of this country.


    Hey, I am all for settling this piece of garbage. I take pride in knowing that we, sitting here on our computers, are way smarter than the owners and the Union and Players who want to all mass commit suicide. All those smart business minds yet they are all imbeciles. Their Mommas wasted a whole lot of money educating these fools. The Lord has blessed these fools with a great gift be it wealth, smarts or athletic ability to perform and .....they are wasting these talents.
    DW Toys
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2011
  12. DW Toys

    DW Toys In the Starting Line-Up

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    Thanks for the information. The fact that they succeed is legally going to go against an anti-trust law suit. It might not tip the scales but it does add points to the NFL side.
    DW Toys
     
  13. primetime

    primetime Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #18 Jersey

    Approximately 1/3 of all workers in the United States work for a publicly traded corporation and another 14% are public employees so approximately half of the US labor force (or more, since those numbers are raw and unadjusted for unemployment figures; nor does it account for the very many private businesses that do open their books) can very easily go to their boss, or a website, or whatever and take a look at the books.

    Of course, only the Packers are a publicly traded corporation, but NFL franchises are multi-billion dollar international businesses that operate with the same rules as a local mom n pop shop.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2011
  14. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    1 - The owners want to take an additional billion off the top of the league's revenues, coming out of the player's pockets. Is it unreasonable for the player's union to want to see their books or should they simply take their cry of poverty on faith?

    2 - If the owers don't want to deal with the player's union they're free to hire non-union players but somehow I don't think people will be coming out to see scrubs play football and I think their revenue would dry up pretty quickly.
     
  15. TruthSeeker

    TruthSeeker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Not a problem. Every player is now a non-union player so let the games begin!
     
  16. DW Toys

    DW Toys In the Starting Line-Up

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    Excellent point!

    Now a smart owner starts up their own triple A Team as do the other owners and play football with all the new draft choices that no longer have a union to join. I would pay to see BB formulate a new Team. Now you will see the player who are used to game checks of some up to a million beg to play. I do not like the owners, but this could have been averted if the players would have negotiated in good faith. I have not seen a single evidence of an NFLPA concession. Seems one way to me.

    NFL2 here we go. Let Doty go after NFL1. Have at it Doty. We moved next door.
    DW Toys
     
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