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New Release of Climategate emails emails

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by patsfan13, Nov 22, 2011.

  1. patsfan13

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    More of the dishonesty from the climate alarmist and their undermining of science for 'the cause (as per M Mann favorite phrase).

    Breaking! Apparently, more emails released. Climategate II? « JoNova: Science, carbon, climate and tax


    It will rake awhile for people to go through all the new emails here are a couple of the interesting ones.


    This refers to the missing heat in the troposphere.

    Which I referenced before here is a link:

    http://sciencespeak.com/MissingSignature.pdf


    I will put more of the emails from different sites here to comply with the 4 sentence limit.



    Some on hiding data from FOIA request of publicly funded work that went into IPCC reports:

    Climategate 2.0 emails – They’re real and they’re spectacular! | Watts Up With That?


    Breaking news: FOIA 2011 has arrived ! « tallbloke's talkshop

    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011
  2. DarrylS

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    Did you deliberately miss the skepticism, "Apparently, more emails released. Climategate II?"

    But they are eagerly awaiting Jeff ID and Tallbloke to confirm whether or not they are real... but thanks to Ripper, hunter, RoryFOMR, Janet J.

    In their mom's basement, the climategate warriors search emails for any sign of fraud..

    If it sounds too good to be true it usually is..
  3. Real World

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    Shocka! ...not.
  4. patsfan13

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    Attack the messenger protect the crooks.


    M Mann has acknowledged they sounded. This is the same mechanism that was used to release the original batch of emails.

    Of course the first batch was released to coincide with the Copenhagen Climate conference. This one when the Durban Climate conference.
  5. DarrylS

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    What part of "apparent" do you not understand.. in my skeptical life have always lived by the adage, if it sounds too good to be true it usually is.

    From this blog...

    Last edited: Nov 22, 2011
  6. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So Phil Jones is the head of the Climate Research Unit at East Anglia,
    he is a lead IPCC author,
    he was voted one of the top 100 scientist in Great Britian
    he works with M Mann and J Hansen to keep papers disputing that human activity is driving climate from being published (thus excluding them from IPCC reports),
    he is in charge of the data set used for most climate research,
    he hid temperature data from other researchers,
    he conspired to hide data from FOIA requests,

    He attacked the credibility of Ross McKittrick and Steve MacIntyre whe they showed the math behind the "hockey stick' was wrong and would be generated by random datasets. So Phil must be a stat whiz......

    wrong he doesn't know how to plot a time series in MS Excel (ie column a for the x axis and column b for the y axis as a graph...


    Apparently, none of the people can do this either, nor apparently use Mathematica or MathLab. This is funny if it weren't so sad. This is the sort of skill that should cause us to wrech out economy to stop 'climate change'.....:rolleyes:
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This is surely the work of Drudge, Haliburton, Bush and Fox News.
  8. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Without fail, they constantly do it, they still blame Drudge for the Billy Blue Dress "Cigar Party"
  9. DarrylS

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    When Julian Assange hacked emails weren't there calls for capitol punishment????..

    Now that this "apparent", "unverified" information, comes from hacked emails the duplicitiy and situational ethics once again rear their ugly head.
  10. patsfan13

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    Not that I am aware of. BTW unlike wikileaks there was no question of national security in point of fact these emails have been hidden from legitimate FOIA request since they were paid for by taxpayers both in the US and UK.

    Deflect away but they want energy taxes on the poor (in the form of higher energy prices) and are both dishonest and incompetent.
  11. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This is another abuse of power by the right. Long before, the report was released, there were various internal discussions among the scientists. In some cases, some of them were objecting strongly to certain lines of reason to keep those lines of reason out of the final report, and in another case they had a discussion about the fact that there were no rules for distinguishing personal from public-interest emails in response to an FOI request (and one way to deal with that was to delete anything you didn't want them to see). It's also another example of right-wing hypocrisy given the lack of outcry by the right to Romney's staff buying all their hard drives.
  12. patsfan13

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    Since no one who hacked the system of if it was an insider looking to expose corruption how do you assign the political orientation of the hacker/insider?


    The fact is they discuss the issues with their research yet the public face was the 'settled science' lie. We can say lie because the email acknowledge that the models are inaccurate and didn't reflect the climate action.

    Worse they demonized those who raised the same objections that they themselves talk about in these emails.

    I guess if the facts aren't in your favor argue the law?

    They should honestly comply with FOIA request like any other government agency. BTW what should be investigated is why the DOE conspired with Jones to hide the data.


    Total perversion of science.

    BTW in the emails Mann describes the role of your boys at Real Climate as 'winning the PR war'.

    So we now know that anything they write is tainted by a political agenda and has nothing to do with science.
  13. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There's nothing wrong with any of the emails if they are part of a long list of b.s. topics and conversations people have. The only measure of the final report is the final report. Clearly, even among mmgw-ers or deniers themselves there is a range of disputes. Those emails opened us up to part of that range. The abuse of power is the knee-jerk interpretation of those emails as representing actions, but the fact is the emails were part of debate that made the final report more narrow than some originally wanted. I'm sure if the deniers ever prepare a joint report, there will be a variety of viewpoints, some more popular than others. As far as the PR war goes, no denying that's a part of the process, unfortunately, and the dishonest portrayal of emails is no different than Romney and Perry's lies in using Obama's words totally out of context in separate ads. But, that's politics for you. I guess we'll see the same from the left.

    Mitt Romney Endorses Obama | Red Tory v.3.0.3
  14. patsfan13

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    Phil Jones doesn't know how to use excel, think about it......:singing:

    He tries to critique McKittrick and McIntyre..... this is better than a Monty Python skit....:singing:
  15. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Woody Allen types all his scripts on a manual typewriter. Einstein couldn't figure out how a mechanical toy duck worked. Think about it. Adeptness at Excel is a measure of competence with product, not with a concept. The deniers use Excel all the time to generate their faulty conclusions. :D Just because he's not an into data input as you are does not mean he's not into the more advanced concepts behind what the data means.
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2011
  16. patsfan13

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    Think Phil is then capable of using/understand a complex programming modeling a chaotic process?


    Think he can understand whether the model is valid or not?

    Think he is capable of managing a database of temperature records?

    What tools does he use in his work?

    Mathematica?

    MathLAb?

    Anything?

    He is an embarrassment.


    How bout the email that confirms that the models were wrong ie the missing heat in the tropical troposphere?
  17. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There are many scientists who are not especially computer savvy. They not only enjoy the manual work, they feel it allows them to get closer to the info. In the academic world, as in the world of production of goods, there are hand crafted items and the mass produced items. Each has its advantages.

    As far as your last point, about missing heat in the tropical troposphere, to answer that question I have to compare the emails in question to the final report, I suppose, something that I probably will not get to anytime soon!
  18. DarrylS

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    Now the right is going to frame this as some type of effort to champion the needs of the poor, god I just threw up in my mouth.. you folks are sickening.

    Hacking is hacking, and that is a criminal offense.. no matter what the reason.
  19. patsfan13

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    So you are OK with the poor having their energy cost doubled on the basis of fraud.......

    Good to know.
  20. The Brandon Five

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    We all have our blind spots. Happens to the best.

  21. Harry Boy

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    Climate Change For The Year 2012

    IT WILL BE VERY COLD DURING THE WINTER
    IT WILL BE VERY HOT DURING THE SUMMER


    :bricks:
  22. patsfan13

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    Seems as though the team was interfacing and getting PR advice from the World Bank, follow the $$$$ as they say:

  23. patsfan13

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    from the emails:

    Here ia description of how the models have been proven this of course was denounced by the alarmist and the team at CRU and Real Climate even as they talk about the inadequacy of the models among themselves.

    http://sciencespeak.com/MissingSignature.pdf
  24. patsfan13

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    Well now that the new email set has been out for a couple of days people are starting to connect the dots on the conversations. This one is about the hide the decline issue and problems with the tree ring data sets and how data was included or removed as necessary to fit the predetermined conclusion.:

    Paleoclimate – Rotten to the core « the Air Vent

    Won't quote from the emails here, too long. This link goes yo a number of complete emails to keep everything 'in context' the blogger here does highlight the important bits of the emails. I will quote a bit of his conclusion.


    Can't wait for the release of the next batch of emails. It is very clear why M Mann is trying to hide his emails and data from the FIOA request to the UVa.
  25. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Unfortunately, as long as you rely on sources that seem to make their living through contrarian views, it will be hard for your point of view to gain credibility. You might as well start linking to Inhofe's website if you're going to base everything on the distorted and opportunistic viewpoints of those who make their living by embracing the Koch brothers, the oil companies, and the other profiteers of global warming denial. I find it hard to believe that you think "your side" is full of honest sincere folk, and the other side is filled with corrupt opportunists.

    A more normal reading of the email is that the investigations into global warming went through numerous review cycles where various issues were identified and had to be addressed. In your world, apparently, all the emails should be about the scientists applauding each other, not critiquing each other. In my opinion that's the problem with the right wing; there is a lack of critical thinking. Where are the emails and correspondence from the deniers showing that their theories were debated and challenged by their own ranks? No wonder so few of their papers have been through peer reviews. And, I think you're being terribly unscientific when you see critical thinking as somehow wrong. I hope in the global warming circles there are still scientists testing and retesting the theories and challenging them as well.
  26. patsfan13

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    Make a living is an interesting statement since these sites (unlike the MSM for example) are non commercial sites. And unlike the People the people who write there don't earn their living off government grants. People like Mann, Hansen, Schmidt et al are the ones with the financial interest in the subject.


    "Your Side" condemn themselves with their own words as shown in the emails.


    Deflect as you like, they hid data, omitted data and 'rigged' research to produce a predetermined outcome rather than conduct science.

    It is very disappointing that you would support this sort of dishonesty which is increasing energy cost for the poor and damaging the environment (see the effect on Ethanol production food prices in the third world for example and the deforestation...).




    The only critiques are of the articles they blocked from peer review because they did not support "THE CAUSE" ( as M Mann put it). The problem is that no criticism was permitted, that was a large part of the perversion of science that Occurred here.



    Pathetic. It is the MMGW proponents that have denied evidence. Your heroes a are doing and have done exactly what you are accusing the 'right wing' of.

    I am very disappointed I thought you were smarter than this.
  27. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    From what I read in those emails, there are three general points:
    (1) There are some mmgw believers who wanted to incorporate evidence that others felt did not have solid-enough proof. The tree ring discussion is an example of that.
    (2) There was a recognition that they were involved in a cause with political implications, just as your websites consistently show with regard to the deniers.
    (3) These are emails, not presented in any context, but selectively chosen by right-wing pro-oil websites.

    Again, please provide some links to show us critical thinking on the part of the deniers. Any good scientific paper is going to be tested by peers. But, what I see in the right is nothing but consistent groupthink, where conservatives are consistently getting into trouble if they sway from the Party line.
  28. DarrylS

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    Interesting comments..

    Richard Littlemore | Climategate Hackers Slither Again in the Night

  29. Wolfpack

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    More of that wonderful Patters logic: Scientists lied about global warming, therefore republicans (and especially Mitt Romney) are evil. :rolleyes:
  30. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wolfie, a tip, try reading what's been posted rather than just adopting a kneejerk party line. The scientists have not lied about global warming. In their early discussions, they debated which arguments had enough scientific support and which arguments did not. Some said there needed to be multiple pieces of evidence before making a claim, while others felt that was not always necessary.
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2011

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